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Netflix streaming quality - Page 111

post #3301 of 5480
What I don't get is why some people with the same devices have no problems yet other people with the same devices with faster speeds have problems.
Does the ISP even if it shows a steady fast connection cause problems with devices? I know TWC is not the best ISP but after reading on the FiOS forums where they can't even stream YouTube at 240p where I can stream YouTube at 480p during peak hours and there connection is so much faster. Also Netflix performance is bad for FiOS too. I would have liked to live in Southern Brooklyn where I could have gotten Optimum but hence I can't. No moving is not a option or a easy thing to do.
Anyway the ATV is better for Netflix although sometimes like the PS3 I have to restart the stream a few times.
post #3302 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

What I don't get is why some people with the same devices have no problems yet other people with the same devices with faster speeds have problems.
Does the ISP even if it shows a steady fast connection cause problems with devices? I know TWC is not the best ISP but after reading on the FiOS forums where they can't even stream YouTube at 240p where I can stream YouTube at 480p during peak hours and there connection is so much faster. Also Netflix performance is bad for FiOS too. I would have liked to live in Southern Brooklyn where I could have gotten Optimum but hence I can't. No moving is not a option or a easy thing to do.
Anyway the ATV is better for Netflix although sometimes like the PS3 I have to restart the stream a few times.
It's all about the ports between Netflix's CDN partners and the ISP. Verizon and others are asking for big $$$ to upgrade them due to the high imbalance in which direction the data is traveling.
post #3303 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

It's all about the ports between Netflix's CDN partners and the ISP. Verizon and others are asking for big $$$ to upgrade them due to the high imbalance in which direction the data is traveling.

And yet some Verizon customers, like aaronwt (I believe) are getting consistently good service from Netflix. It would be such a good thing if the giant providers who are hold-outs to becoming Open Connect "partners" would just go ahead and do it. The caching servers in their local systems alone would take mammoth amounts of traffic off the Internet.
post #3304 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

It's all about the ports between Netflix's CDN partners and the ISP. Verizon and others are asking for big $$$ to upgrade them due to the high imbalance in which direction the data is traveling.


Are those ports anything like the ones found on my sports car? If they are, I can add that to my streaming analogy!


Ian biggrin.gif
post #3305 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

It's all about the ports between Netflix's CDN partners and the ISP. Verizon and others are asking for big $$$ to upgrade them due to the high imbalance in which direction the data is traveling.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I've said this on this thread and others .. eek.gif
post #3306 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

It's all about the ports between Netflix's CDN partners and the ISP. Verizon and others are asking for big $$$ to upgrade them due to the high imbalance in which direction the data is traveling.
That, and a crippled Netflix is good business for those carriers as it will(hopefully) direct subscribers to their own streaming/VOD services.
post #3307 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Yeah, sell your house and move to Sebastopol just to watch streaming TV without caps. Let's do the math. biggrin.gif

Probably better to start organizing streaming users who are getting billed for going over caps for protests. Every U-Verse ad I see features being able to stream movies. Of course their whole TV service is streaming. These telecom companies CEOs are dinosaurs with retro 20th century business school thinking.
If there was real competition in the broadband arena that would be an option, but in areas like the SF bay area, if you want fast broadband you have only one option, Comcast. Sure, there's very small pockets of U-verse and even a smaller pocket of folks on 1GB fiber(Sebastopol and I think down in the Fremont area) but generally speaking, you pay and adhere to the rules of the monopolist Comcast as there is nobody challenging them.
post #3308 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

If there was real competition in the broadband arena that would be an option, but in areas like the SF bay area, if you want fast broadband you have only one option, Comcast. Sure, there's very small pockets of U-verse and even a smaller pocket of folks on 1GB fiber(Sebastopol and I think down in the Fremont area) but generally speaking, you pay and adhere to the rules of the monopolist Comcast as there is nobody challenging them.

Yes I am the Bay Area as well (Santa Cruz mountains) and Comcast is only real option. There is Verizon DSL (which used to be 6 Mbps in my location but now 3 Mbps is the max thanks Verizon 'optimizing' the lines) - but they seem to be actively trying to lose customers so they no longer have to service the copper wires. There is only a tiny pocket of Verizon DSL locally (Morgan Hill / Los Gatos - inherited I think from GTE) and Verizon seems to have no interest in this tiny pocket of subscribers - there will never be FIOS here.
post #3309 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Yes I am the Bay Area as well (Santa Cruz mountains) and Comcast is only real option. There is Verizon DSL (which used to be 6 Mbps in my location but now 3 Mbps is the max thanks Verizon 'optimizing' the lines) - but they seem to be actively trying to lose customers so they no longer have to service the copper wires. There is only a tiny pocket of Verizon DSL locally (Morgan Hill / Los Gatos - inherited I think from GTE) and Verizon seems to have no interest in this tiny pocket of subscribers - there will never be FIOS here.
AT&T and Verizon are actively dumping off DSL, in fact copper altogether as that is where the rules and regulations are that they don't want to adhere to anymore. Get rid of the copper and no more restrictions on having to provide service, not having to stay within regulated pricing models, "I'll provide service to you but not you over there," etc. The two largest telcos are done with copper, and they both are actually done with their fiber rollouts as wireless is where the money is. They both pretty much wrote the rules for wireless and the FCC rubber-stamped it, meaning that there is no such thing as 'Net neutrality when it comes to wireless networks, the telcos can do essentially whatever they want. Also, you'll never see Verizon FIOS in an AT&T U-verse area and vice versa, they don't cross pollinate their hardwired service areas. In some areas like Sandy-hit communities Verizon has suggested you contact the local cable TV company(Comcast and their ilk) as they(Verizon) are not going to replace the wires that were destroyed in the hurricane.

Broadband in this country is a complete mess, and excruciatingly anti-consumer, "pay me what I want, or do without, period".
post #3310 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

And yet some Verizon customers, like aaronwt (I believe) are getting consistently good service from Netflix. It would be such a good thing if the giant providers who are hold-outs to becoming Open Connect "partners" would just go ahead and do it. The caching servers in their local systems alone would take mammoth amounts of traffic off the Internet.

Yes, I have no problems with Netflix and Youtube also plays at 1080P without issue for me. I use the FiOS DNS IP addresses and am on the 150/65 tier. For me it might be because there are a bunch of major data centers located in the DC area. No idea though.
post #3311 of 5480
Netflix now has new "ISP Prime Time Performance Metrics". Interestingly, the order of the performance index has not significantly changed since the release of Super HD to all customers regardless of ISP last month.
post #3312 of 5480
post #3313 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

If there was real competition in the broadband arena that would be an option, but in areas like the SF bay area, if you want fast broadband you have only one option, Comcast. Sure, there's very small pockets of U-verse and even a smaller pocket of folks on 1GB fiber(Sebastopol and I think down in the Fremont area) but generally speaking, you pay and adhere to the rules of the monopolist Comcast as there is nobody challenging them.
This burg is about to get Astound too. They haven't come down my block yet but they are laying cable and putting their fliers in with the weekly grocery ones. So there will be a little more choice. I'm on U-Verse though. The fiber node is a block or two away and the rest comes by copper. The only thing I had from Comcast was TV. Though Astound does offer a "bargain" 3 mbps broadband their main bottom offering is 15 mbps. And U-Verse has been busy calling, sending email and snail mail knowing competition is coming into the neighborhood.

I saw the announcement for the new Netflix interface but I think it's the same one I've been getting for several weeks. Does anyone else actually see a change? The interface change came a few weeks back both on PC and Android.
post #3314 of 5480

Just curious about others experience with Net Flix sound quality?  My picture is great!  But the sound on movies in 5.1 has a bad sound to it.  Most noticeable during dialogue without background sounds. A distorted sound.  Bad enough that I change my Net Flix to Stereo.  Then sounds good.  I even get the problem if I switch the A/V to sound Direct which leads me to believe it is a problem with the incoming signal from Net Flix not the processing in my A/V receiver.  I also swapped Blu Ray players, no change.

 

I am w/Cable One.  Fast connection speed. 

Using a Sony Blu Ray 5100, Marantz 1603 receiver.

 

Greg

 

Had a response from Marantz.  They said they were able to duplicate the situation I described and noted that there are some "Audio Artifacts" present on some Dolby+.  Also said there engineers would be working on a fix.   ;-)


Edited by cheglie - 12/16/13 at 6:56am
post #3315 of 5480

Yeah--I saw that and was discussing it in a thread in the Roku site forums yesterday. Discussion of it probably belongs in the "Best possible Netflix streaming device"; I posted about it in that thread here.
post #3316 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheglie View Post

Just curious about others experience with Net Flix sound quality?  My picture is great!  But the sound on movies in 5.1 has a bad sound to it.  Most noticeable during dialogue without background sounds. A distorted sound.  Bad enough that I change my Net Flix to Stereo.  Then sounds good.  I even get the problem if I switch the A/V to sound Direct which leads me to believe it is a problem with the incoming signal from Net Flix not the processing in my A/V receiver.  I also swapped Blu Ray players, no change.

I am w/Cable One.  Fast connection speed. 
Using a Sony Blu Ray 5100, Marantz 1603 receiver.

Greg

Yes, I have noticed some sound issues with their newer encodes.
post #3317 of 5480

Well, I'm using a newly purchased N/R that was a refurbished unit from Accessories4less.  I have had mostly good experiences with their equipment and a couple not so good.  So, I'm trying to decide if the issue could be in the receiver, or in NetFlix.  Have not been able to find too many complaints similar to mine about NetFlix sound quality.  The unit seems to do  a great job with all other data.

 

Re:aaronwt

post #3318 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheglie View Post

Well, I'm using a newly purchased N/R that was a refurbished unit from Accessories4less.  I have had mostly good experiences with their equipment and a couple not so good.  So, I'm trying to decide if the issue could be in the receiver, or in NetFlix.  Have not been able to find too many complaints similar to mine about NetFlix sound quality.  The unit seems to do  a great job with all other data.

Re:aaronwt

The issues I've heard have been from multiple devics on multiple sound systems. At first I thought it might be the streaming device or audio system. Which is why I checked it out on other devices. I ran into the same thing, if I switched to the stereo track then the audio issues were gone.
post #3319 of 5480
At some point after Dolby announced that their newest Dolby Digital Plus encoder was twice as efficient, getting the same quality out of half the bits, Netflix quietly cut the bit rate of their 5.1 sound encodes in half. DD+ 5.1 encodes have gone from 384 Kbps to 192 Kbps and their stereo encodes went from 192 Kbps to 96 Kbps. I haven't noticed any distortions but I have noticed that some sound encodes seem less "rich" than I remember (the beach plane wreckage scene at the beginning of the Lost pilot comes to mind).

You can see Dolby's press release from April 16th here:
Quote:
Today at NAB Show® 2012, booth SU1212, Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (NYSE: DLB) is demonstrating key enhancements to Dolby® Digital Plus that will bring authentic, high-quality audio within reach of more broadcasters and online-content providers. Significant advancements in the core encoding process enable providers to deliver cinematic 5.1-channel surround sound at 192 kbps, half the data rate typically used by traditional broadcast services today.

(Emphasis added). Seems like a trivial saving in bandwidth for Netflix.
post #3320 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yeah--I saw that and was discussing it in a thread in the Roku site forums yesterday. Discussion of it probably belongs in the "Best possible Netflix streaming device"; I posted about it in that thread here.

I'm sure that there are multiple threads where the info would be of interest to members that use NF on any device .. including this thread .. tongue.gif
post #3321 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheglie View Post

Just curious about others experience with Net Flix sound quality?  My picture is great!  But the sound on movies in 5.1 has a bad sound to it.  Most noticeable during dialogue without background sounds. A distorted sound.  Bad enough that I change my Net Flix to Stereo.  Then sounds good.  I even get the problem if I switch the A/V to sound Direct which leads me to believe it is a problem with the incoming signal from Net Flix not the processing in my A/V receiver.  I also swapped Blu Ray players, no change.

I am w/Cable One.  Fast connection speed. 
Using a Sony Blu Ray 5100, Marantz 1603 receiver.

Greg

Is that an in general issue or do you have any specific content that you could cite as an example .. ?? I'd be happy to stream a test of what you've had issues with tonight on one of my PS3's or a BD NF embedded player ..
post #3322 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post


Is that an in general issue or do you have any specific content that you could cite as an example .. ?? I'd be happy to stream a test of what you've had issues with tonight on one of my PS3's or a BD NF embedded player ..

It has been "virtually" all Net Flix movies in 5.1.  It is noticeable mostly when there is a quiet scene with two people having a conversation.  I pointed it out to my GF.  Now she picks it up easily and I pick up on it so much I can't stand to listen to 5.1 format.  Some that come to mind.....The Following, Stephen King's Bag of Bones was probably the best example that comes to mind.  Lots of dialogue.

post #3323 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I'm sure that there are multiple threads where the info would be of interest to members that use NF on any device .. including this thread .. tongue.gif

True; I'm just saying that it's off topic here, given that it has nothing to do with stream quality (unless and until someone notices that they get better or worse quality when their player updates to the new UI biggrin.gif).
post #3324 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

True; I'm just saying that it's off topic here, given that it has nothing to do with stream quality (unless and until someone notices that they get better or worse quality when their player updates to the new UI biggrin.gif).

you never know .. eek.gif
post #3325 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

...do you have any specific content that you could cite as an example .. ??

Someone in some thread gave the example of Breaking Bad, Season 3, Episode 12 "Half Measures" in the scene at 9 minutes, 2 seconds, where two characters are having a whispered conversation at a table in the bar. He felt that the whispering was rendered incorrectly, eliciting a harsh squeal from his equipment. I listened to it and thought that it sounded okay.
post #3326 of 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Someone in some thread gave the example of Breaking Bad, Season 3, Episode 12 "Half Measures" in the scene at 9 minutes, 2 seconds, where two characters are having a whispered conversation at a table in the bar. He felt that the whispering was rendered incorrectly, eliciting a harsh squeal from his equipment. I listened to it and thought that it sounded okay.

Man, if that's as bad as it gets in the 4.5 seasons on NF, that's actually pretty good ..

Myself, I'd dismiss that as a one time glitch for the guy streaming it unless he could replicate it after a full off / on cycle of all his gear ..

I did a marathon watch of BB prior to the final episode, over a period of a week and noticed no audio problems of any sort, PS3 .. no video issues either, although I heard that the last few days before the finale, some did have some quality issues .. with the sheer number of folks streaming that show at that time, it was probably to be expected ..
post #3327 of 5480
Over the weekend I did some homework on streaming quality and adaptive bitrate streaming. There is actually quite a bit of information available including papers by college students researching the subject (since some of the companies run competitions for students on the subject) as well as white papers from the various providers. Also being curious about the grainy looking stream I get there was a discussion on a forum of video producers about seeing this on YouTube, where I've seen it too. They mention that it appears that it is a result of the encode being reduced vertically from 1920x1080 to 1920x540 and that can cause that effect not to mention quite a reduction in bitrate. My tests show it is hard to notice if the bitrate is high enough which goes back to something I read years ago that the eye might not notice a reduction in either the horizontal or vertical dimension.

One thing I also came across is that at the moment HTML5 streaming can't handle the adaptive bitrate fragment files. It has to use a contiguous stream.
post #3328 of 5480
I can't use the ATV during peak hours anymore. It was fine this afternoon.

I tried reloading a program six times but it kept dropping down to SD even Low SD. I then fired up the PS3 and it ramped up to Super HD no problem. Even a SD program Xena dropped down to low def yesterday.

I know you are all sick of me complaining about this but out of every device the PS3 is the only reliable device.

Annoying at best but screw the 80 watts it uses.
post #3329 of 5480
Oddly enough Netflix on win 7 PC (Chrome and win 7 IE 11 browsers ) was showing what looked like an updated interface similar to what the new updated page page looks like yesterday AM 11/13 but after a few hrs it reverted back to the regular page and is still way now . No update on PS 3 yet .
post #3330 of 5480
Well this is strange - I have always had no problem getting the highest speed Netflix will let me have on Comcast on any of my devices - HD 3850 kbps until recently and SuperHD 5800 kbps now.

Suddenly my wired Apple TV struggles to get up to 1750 kbps - sometimes never making it that far. It has been like that for few days and independent of time of day. The AppleTV behavior began just after watching a bit of Pirates of the Caribbean in Super HD and looking really great - then suddenly nothing better than 1750 kbps (maybe Captain Jack put a curse on it...)

My other devices still get full speed no problem - and they are all wireless!

Chromecast gets 5800 kbps and 2 Roku 2's set to output 720P get to 3000 kbps.

Very strange - nothing changed on my Network. I have tried resetting everything to no avail.

I can still use the Chromecast on my main TV - it is just not as convenient as the family are used to using the Harmony remote (and it can't control the Chromecast). This is a pain as the Apple TV was the most reliable and best looking streamer until a few days ago.
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