or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Netflix streaming quality
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Netflix streaming quality - Page 153

post #4561 of 5437
Like I posted before, my wife and I support two households. One has Comcast, the other Cablevison (and DTV). Cablevision is cheaper then Comcast, offers Open Connect, and unlike Comcast, offers on demand streaming (HBO Go, Fox On Demand, etc..) from your favorite device (in my case, Roku) for free. The biggest MSO's continue to practice policies that seem to be motivated by greed. The more they make, the more they need. cool.gif


Ian
post #4562 of 5437
What I don't get is why can Netflix charge a bit more money as I add on so you can get a special priority servers. I would pay it if it meant better performance.
post #4563 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

What I don't get is why can Netflix charge a bit more money as I add on so you can get a special priority servers. I would pay it if it meant better performance.
Don't worry, you'll have your wish soon I'm sure. The ISPs want exactly something like that to happen, whether you pay the ISP directly for a "premium" connection or you pay Netflix a higher price so they can cover the price the ISP wants for that "premium" connection, at the end of the day, you will pay more. Both Verizon and AT&T have talked about implementing just such a plan.

But then, what if some other video provider like YouTube pays even more to get preferential treatment over Netflix traffic? Will you then be willing to pay even more to Netflix/ISP to have their traffic given faster/better service than YouTube?

The above is exactly what network neutrality is all about
post #4564 of 5437
What the ISP's want is metered bandwidth .. just like a utility .. use all you want, push as much content thru the pipe as you can stand and get a fast connection .. just let us read your meter each month and send you a bill accordingly ..

Although data caps and additional surcharges are a step in that direction, full metered from the first Mbps to the last is the ultimate goal ..

The disparity comes into play when you look at a retired couple that streams a few movies a month, does some email and other light use ..

Compared to the 5 person household that is fully wired and tech savvy ..
post #4565 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkOrPn View Post

Let's all move to Ephrata Washington so we can put these streaming issues behind us. Lol j/k
What does Ephrata have? I grew up in a wide spot in the road (pop 300) in Washington state and we were a test bed for Bell Systems. Our telephone operators were replaced by automated dialing in the early 1950s. I see now that Century Link now runs the place. Can't tell from their website what the town really has from them.
post #4566 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

What I don't get is why can Netflix charge a bit more money as I add on so you can get a special priority servers. I would pay it if it meant better performance.

Isn't tiered Netflix pricing here already? A buck off for a single SD streaming. Three dollar extra for two additional streams.

The problem is even if you do sign up for premium priority Netflix service, there is no guarantee that you will get premium priority stream all the time. There are too many factors in play for Netflix to be able to guarantee that. Of course, I'm sure if Netflix offered such service, Netflix would have all kinds of exceptions and non-guarantees in fine print for its premium service. rolleyes.gif
post #4567 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

What does Ephrata have? I grew up in a wide spot in the road (pop 300) in Washington state and we were a test bed for Bell Systems. Our telephone operators were replaced by automated dialing in the early 1950s. I see now that Century Link now runs the place. Can't tell from their website what the town really has from them.

According to CNet, Ephrata, WA has the fastest broadband in the nation, averaging over 85 Mbps (and it's not Google Fiber either).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57613018-1/which-us-city-has-the-fastest-internet-access-wrong/
post #4568 of 5437
Okay, Ephrata has community fiber which I advocate and many cities should do. I wouldn't want to live there though. I grew up in Eastern Washington which is part of the "the Great Desert". In fact cousins used to fly their Navy jets from Oak Harbor in over our town and when I asked them why they said Eastern Washington is like the Middle East so good for practice though I often wondered about a crop duster suddenly flying up in front of them. And yup, when I flew to India the airline flew over Iran and it looked like Eastern Washington. There is a decommissioned Air Force base nearby which was used and probably still used to train airline pilots particularly for big airliners.

I lived back home in the 1980s and spent $100 a month on long distance to connect to CompuServe, GEnie, BIX and other such boards.
post #4569 of 5437
Yep, Community Fiber is a great concept ..

Unfortunately, Big telecomm firms send lobbyists to the legislative bodies of state government to block building such networks, mainly because they have their intended effect on broadband pricing, provided a city can clear the initial hurdle of finding the capital to build its own network.
post #4570 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Obama’s Twitter Account Warns ‘House of Cards’ Fans: ‘No Spoilers, Please’

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/02/14/president-barack-obama-warns-house-of-cards-fans-no-spoilers/

Wonder if the White House is on a non-Open Connect ISP. If they get the low quality 240P streams for House of Cards Season 2 maybe this will get fixed smile.gif

I watched the first two episodes last night between 8:30 and 10:30. It was a little slower than normal ramping up to SUper HD, but after the 40 seconds or so it took it stayed with the Super HD stream for both episodes.
post #4571 of 5437
I did not even attempt House of Cards on Apple TV last night. We watched 3 pristine episodes with Dolby Digital on Chromecast.
post #4572 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

What does Ephrata have?
Apparently they had the brains to invest nearly 150 mill into a community wide fiber network right around the time of the 2008 downturn. It's nearly twice the speed of Google fiber in the second fastest city Kansas. Every speed test done in Ephrata averages 89.5 mbps. Which puts it quite possibly in the category of world fastest Internet per household or business.

However like someone said it's East Washington. I'd still live there though because here in New Mexico it's worse lol... I wonder what the community pays for Internet in Ephrata and what the advertised speeds are? Hmm

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
post #4573 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I did not even attempt House of Cards on Apple TV last night. We watched 3 pristine episodes with Dolby Digital on Chromecast.

As we know people in different locations / or different ISPs are seeing different devices perform well.

Last night neither my Chromecast or Roku 2 could above 1750 kpbs - yet my Apple TV once again started at 5800 kpbs and held.

My (adult) son also had no problem getting 720P on multiple House of Cards episodes last night and this morning on his Win 7 PC.
Edited by undecided - 2/15/14 at 5:06pm
post #4574 of 5437
I tried all of my devices. Roku 3, Chromecast, ATV and PS3. they all connect to a 108 IP address which is Netflix Streaming Services. The ATV performs great in the afternoon but after 7PM it won't go up to Super HD either SD or 720p. So that baloney that different devices connect to different CDN is not true. What is true is that different devices handle congestion better. The ATV is the worst of the bunch.
post #4575 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

I tried all of my devices. Roku 3, Chromecast, ATV and PS3. they all connect to a 108 IP address which is Netflix Streaming Services. The ATV performs great in the afternoon but after 7PM it won't go up to Super HD either SD or 720p. So that baloney that different devices connect to different CDN is not true. What is true is that different devices handle congestion better. The ATV is the worst of the bunch.

Some devices use a different set of encodes which may not be available from all servers on every CDNs. There is no "handling congestion" on the device level. I know you think that a big buffer takes care of it (and that you can measure the length of the buffer by the flashing lights on your switch rolleyes.gif) but it's just not that simple.
post #4576 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

I tried all of my devices. Roku 3, Chromecast, ATV and PS3. they all connect to a 108 IP address which is Netflix Streaming Services. The ATV performs great in the afternoon but after 7PM it won't go up to Super HD either SD or 720p. So that baloney that different devices connect to different CDN is not true. What is true is that different devices handle congestion better. The ATV is the worst of the bunch.

Yes, but you don't know where your request goes from 108 IP address. You can't see where the server at 108 IP address is directing your request. You are just seeing the first point of your connection.

It may be different devices connect to different CDNs depending on where you are and which program/show you select. That's four variables (at least) that needs to be considered so that's a lot of factor combinations that can affect your stream quality.

IMHO, your issue has a lot to do with where you are. NYC metro area is the most densely populated area in the country. There may not be sufficient peak bandwidth capacity to handle the demand of the area. I am not sure if there is a solution to your PQ issue other than move to a different area. (and I mean that without snark or sarcasm). smile.gif
post #4577 of 5437
Thanks for explaining. No wonder 108 IP says NYC. All I know with the Merlin firmware I see a crap load of IPs in the log so it is hard to filter them.
post #4578 of 5437
Okay I am watching something now. It is staying in Super HD on my Roku 3. Here is my current connection log. My Roku 3 IP is 192.168.1.19.
roto NATed Address Destination Address State
tcp 192.168.1.19:59424 50.17.216.218:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.48:48611 74.125.228.107:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43203 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:34382 173.194.68.188:5228 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:49345 207.46.11.151:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.34:4972 67.148.153.136:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:42006 54.214.248.72:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43212 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:50093 54.214.248.64:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.66:61978 17.149.36.71:5223 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:32896 54.214.248.64:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.48:39307 74.125.228.75:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.66:63044 134.170.0.200:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.71:49330 17.172.233.92:5223 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43205 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:44298 134.170.0.200:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.66:63045 207.46.11.151:443 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43204 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:45169 74.125.228.6:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.15:60314 216.52.203.13:80 TIME_WAIT
udp 192.168.1.34:2119 67.148.153.243:30123 UNREPLIED
post #4579 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

Yes, but you don't know where your request goes from 108 IP address. You can't see where the server at 108 IP address is directing your request. You are just seeing the first point of your connection.

If he's looking at a list of connections in his router he's seeing the end point, the node to which the connection is established; it's not going to list any of the path taken to that node. The thing is there should be many network connections made by the device when streaming Netflix. Sometimes it'll open connections on multiple content servers and draw content from them all simultaneously gradually settling down to using only one. There will always be a second connection open, ostensibly for coordination and transaction processing; before my ISP got hooked up to OC, this was generally an Amazon AWS server.

Here's an example of what happens while using the Win8 Netflix app (the easiest thing for me to observe, since it's a single process all of whom's network connections are in the service of streaming Netflix):

All Netflix Connections (Click to show)
NetflixConnections2.jpg
Netflix Connections with Active I/O (Click to show)
NetflixConnections1.jpg
post #4580 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Okay I am watching something now. It is staying in Super HD on my Roku 3. Here is my current connection log. My Roku 3 IP is 192.168.1.19.

Here's that list with only the Roku 3's entries:
Quote:
tcp 192.168.1.19:43203 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43204 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43205 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:43212 108.175.43.152:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.1.19:59424 50.17.216.218:443 ESTABLISHED

Four connections on a single content server (ipv4_1.lagg0.c062.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net) and one to an AWS server (ec2-50-17-216-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com).
post #4581 of 5437
Watching House of Cards Season 2 this evening on an Apple TV 3rd Generation on Comcast 25 Mbps - starts and holds Super HD without issues (confirmed looking at router real-time bandwidth which is averaging 6.5 Mbps over 10 minutes - see below for average midway through an episode)

Active connections for the Apple TV (using Merlin firmware on an RT-N66U)

54.244.242.1 Amazon Technologies Inc (DRM / trafiic management)

17.149.32.67 Apple Inc (talking to mommy)

208.111.173.182 Limelight Networks, Inc (CDN)

reddice - its not baloney - different devices in different locations connect different to CDNs.

My Chromecast and Rokus connect to different CDNs (mainly Netflix, Akamai, Level3) and unfortunately have struggled to get above the 240/480P streams for the last few weeks. I have say if the Roku and Chromecast were my only devices in my location I would be like others here and ready to cancel Netflix. Until the turn of the year both Chromecast and Rokus were getting highest quality streams.

post #4582 of 5437
Well good for you undecided. My ATV is fine mornings and afternoons until the evening when it turns to crap. Multiple restarts of the stream might get me 720p HD at best. My PS3, Roku 3 & Chromecast (except for when I have WiFi interference) usually starts bad but ramps up, can get and usually maintain a Super HD stream no problem.
post #4583 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Well good for you undecided. My ATV is fine mornings and afternoons until the evening when it turns to crap. Multiple restarts of the stream might get me 720p HD at best. My PS3, Roku 3 & Chromecast (except for when I have WiFi interference) usually starts bad but ramps up, can get and usually maintain a Super HD stream no problem.

If your Apple TV is connecting to Netflix Streaming Services (as you posted last night) that is entirely consistent with the massive thread on the Apple TV discussion forums that you participated in.

Problems started for Apple TVs early November and those who were seeing the problem and could check were connecting to Netflix Streaming Services.

Mid-December the issue was fixed for many and those that could check were now connecting to Limelight. Those who were still seeing the issue were still connecting to Netflix Streaming Services. I recall you asked the person (another AVS member) who identified the issue on the Apple TV forums how block Netflix Streaming Services in your router and he gave you instructions (including a warning that while it could force the Apple TV to use another CDN it would interfere with your other devices on your Network trying to use Netflix Streaming Services).

For reasons unknown it seems the Apple TV is allergic to Netflix Streaming Services as a CDN while other devices seem less sensitive. However when connecting to Limelight (which is what my Apple TV always does now) it is rock solid for me on Comcast. Watching House of Cards Season 2 last night at 8PM on a Saturday night (the day after the season was released) would seem to be the ultimate stress test.

It would be interesting to see if your other devices are always connecting to Netflix Streaming Services or other CDNs - that could explain some of the variability you see with your various devices.
post #4584 of 5437
I figured that "House of Cards" season two would create all kinds of network congestion so avoided it. I'll wait to watch it.

Regarding the Ephrata story if you scroll down and read the comments one person local to the area gave even more of a backstory as this was all set up 15 years ago. Not only that but since this came under a Washington Public Utilities Department thing other small communities have it too. In fact when I last visited my small hometown in 1991 it looked like they were laying fiber down the street but it may have been something to work with the sewer system. WiMax was supposed to be the solution for rural communities but it looks like it really hasn't taken off.

And Sante Fe is far removed from the kind of community you're likely to find in Ephrata.
post #4585 of 5437
House of Cards has been playing fine all weekend for me on the Netflix App on Windows 8.1.

Anybody know of a network meter I can use to monitor the stream kbps on 8.1? I am curious to see if I am getting the full 5800 or not.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
post #4586 of 5437
There is a command which I have forgotten right now(it is something like ctrl+shift+S or similar--do a search and you get it) that you can type in during play and it displays a lot of details on screen. Type the same command again and it goes away.
post #4587 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishwa Somayaji View Post

There is a command which I have forgotten right now(it is something like ctrl+shift+S or similar--do a search and you get it) that you can type in during play and it displays a lot of details on screen. Type the same command again and it goes away.

Left click the video to give the player keyboard focus and type CTRL-SHIFT-D or CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D (the latter works in all PC players, the first only works in the Win8 app, I think). The HTML5 version displayd the most debug info (a hell of a lot), the Win8 app the least. The command does not work in the Silverlight player if it's blown up fullscreen (it does in the HTML5 one). AFAIK, the HTML5 player only works in IE11 on Win8 (redundant, since on Win8 you can use the app and get bitstreamed 5.1 sound).
post #4588 of 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Left click the video to give the player keyboard focus and type CTRL-SHIFT-D or CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D (the latter works in all PC players, the first only works in the Win8 app, I think). The HTML5 version displayd the most debug info (a hell of a lot), the Win8 app the least. The command does not work in the Silverlight player if it's blown up fullscreen (it does in the HTML5 one). AFAIK, the HTML5 player only works in IE11 on Win8 (redundant, since on Win8 you can use the app and get bitstreamed 5.1 sound).
Thanks Michael. As I was typing it I remembered you. I haven't used win8 app in a really long time.
post #4589 of 5437
Ok thanks that works great. Using the windows monitor it shows that Netflix is downloading in upwards of 30 Mbps or more every other second so I could not determine what the actual stream playback is. The command above shows House of Cards playing at 5800 kbps. I don't like the overlay because it fills the entire screen but will do in a pinch quite nicely. When I use the browser I only use IE11 for the html5 playback as well.

Thanks again

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
post #4590 of 5437
Isn't House of Cards Season 2 suppose to be in 4K? Didn't Netflix say something about starting 4K streaming soon? When is that going to happen? rolleyes.gif I think Netflix should master 1080p streaming before 4K. (Yes, snark is fully intended).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Netflix streaming quality