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The Dark Knight comparison *PIX* - Page 2

post #31 of 1595
11/28/08 at 11:22pm
Were is the DVD frame?
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post #32 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post

Wow, that looks awful. I like how the entire bottom of the table has a halo.

Anybody who calls this reference is a fool.

Isn't that basically every "professional" reviewer?

I like this line from Blu-ray.com:

Quote:


Some have complained about the subtle use of edge enhancement as detracting from the overall picture quality, but I believe what they are seeing is an ever-so-slight glow effect that makes the bright areas of some scenes appear heightened. Deducting points for this type of brightness would be silly.


"And I thought my jokes were bad"
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post #33 of 1595
11/29/08 at 4:25am
I found the image quality watchable and enjoyed the film...The EE and grain reduction is disappointing but detail levels are generally high on this release but in no way can it be considered near reference in my opinion.

On my own site i give it the following marks in my review...

Film Entertainment Rating - 90/100
Image Quality Rating - 75/100
Sound Quality Rating - 85/100

I think i was generous with 75/100 considering the grain reduction and EE.

Anyone who wants to read my review can just click my blog and get the site from there. A good shot to use for the comparisons would be a scene around 34 minutes into the film where Batman is posing on the Japanese building just before one of the big action scenes...I noticed EE on that scene ( among others )
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post #34 of 1595
11/29/08 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post


I like this line from Blu-ray.com:

Quote:


Some have complained about the subtle use of edge enhancement as detracting from the overall picture quality, but I believe what they are seeing is an ever-so-slight glow effect that makes the bright areas of some scenes appear heightened. Deducting points for this type of brightness would be silly.


"And I thought my jokes were bad"

I wanted to type a funny remark regarding this but I have to say I am simply im awe at the level of expertise that is demonstrated once again by this reviewer
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post #35 of 1595
11/29/08 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Image Quality Rating - 75/100
Sound Quality Rating - 85/100

I think i was generous with 75/100 considering the grain reduction and EE.
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Thanks a lot. I am aware that you are a critical viewer but 75/100 score will suffice to remove TDK from my pre-order. To hell with Warner and thanks to you and others for saving another 20 odd $$$.

Will wait for the inevitable Special Collector's Edition that might be released next year.
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post #36 of 1595
11/29/08 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Thanks a lot. I am aware that you are a critical viewer but 75/100 score will suffice to remove TDK from my pre-order. To hell with Warner and thanks to you and others for saving another 20 odd $$$.

Will wait for the inevitable Special Collector's Edition that might be released next year.

That's extremely discouraging, friend. The movie is a masterpiece, and that's not going to change regardless of the picture quality. In addition to that, the Blu Ray looks vastly superior to the DVD, even with its faults, and the IMAX scenes are some of the best images ever to grace Blu Ray Disc. Simply put, despite its flaws, The Dark Knight on Blu Ray is the best version available to purchase and should be in every film lover's collection. But that really does beg the question - Are you a film lover or a tech lover?
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post #37 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

That's extremely discouraging, friend. The movie is a masterpiece, and that's not going to change regardless of the picture quality. In addition to that, the Blu Ray looks vastly superior to the DVD, even with its faults, and the IMAX scenes are some of the best images ever to grace Blu Ray Disc. Simply put, despite its flaws, The Dark Knight on Blu Ray is the best version available to purchase and should be in every film lover's collection. But that really does beg the question - Are you a film lover or a tech lover?

You can be a film lover and still decide not to purchase a title because you are unhappy with the transfer a studio delivered. Different people have different reasons for their purchasing decisions, and that really is OK.
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post #38 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

You can be a film lover and still decide not to purchase a title because you are unhappy with the transfer a studio delivered. Different people have different reasons for their purchasing decisions, and that really is OK.

Given that this is a Warner release, there's probably not going to be another transfer for at least 5 years. That being said, the only person you're punishing by refusing to purchase a title simply because it doesn't look as good as it could (while still destroying the next best thing, the DVD) is yourself. The notion of purchasing the DVD over the Blu Ray simply because the Blu Ray has EE is ludicrous. EE and all, the Blu Ray still destroys the DVD.
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post #39 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post


I like this line from Blu-ray.com:

"Some have complained about the subtle use of edge enhancement as detracting from the overall picture quality, but I believe what they are seeing is an ever-so-slight glow effect that makes the bright areas of some scenes appear heightened. Deducting points for this type of brightness would be silly."





"And I thought my jokes were bad"

WTH is a "Glow Effect"?!?!?

Is this some new special effect that film makers are using that I have not heard about?
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post #40 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

I found the image quality watchable and enjoyed the film...The EE and grain reduction is disappointing but detail levels are generally high on this release but in no way can it be considered near reference in my opinion.

On my own site i give it the following marks in my review...

Film Entertainment Rating - 90/100
Image Quality Rating - 75/100
Sound Quality Rating - 85/100

I think i was generous with 75/100 considering the grain reduction and EE.

Anyone who wants to read my review can just click my blog and get the site from there. A good shot to use for the comparisons would be a scene around 34 minutes into the film where Batman is posing on the Japanese building just before one of the big action scenes...I noticed EE on that scene ( among others )

While I do agree that these shots are a bit jaring, this certainly will not keep me from buying this title. While I do respect what Xylon has done here (and a few others, but not all as some of you IMO have taken this WAY to far), I dont plan on pausing the film and dweling on the issues. I understand that some are VERY sensitive to EE and DNR and this realy dampens their experience with the film, but I am NOT one of those people, and the VAST majority of people watching this wont even know that there is an issue because they dont know any better. Do I wish these issues were not there? Of course, but I imagine watching this film as one normaly watches a film (in motion) the issue will not be nearly as jaring FOR MOST as these screenshots are showing which is evidence by the many glowing PQ reviews (including our own Ralph Potts) where the EE was noted, but most claimed was minor at best. I think the vast majority of people (again, not the videophiles. You poor tortured souls j/k) will be very happy with this transfer (besides hard core AVS'ers and the like). That does not make what is going on here correct, but this will be a non issue or minor issue at best for most.

I understand what you guys are doing here and it is good that you are doing it in hopes that it will bring better transfers in the future and lessen this practice, but this only hurts this amazing film experience as much as you let it after all the screenshots have been posted and it is beaten into our heads how bad this transfer is, and there are MANY positive things about this release that hopefully some of you will consider as well before tossing it into the fire. I myself am VERY EXCITED to hear the audio and just experience this great film. Honestly, I find it crazy to pass up on this release due to this issue as this very well could be the best transfer we ever get of this amazing film. Even if there is a double dip down the road there is a good chance it will be the same identical transfer. I am going to enjoy the DK warts and all and that is a choice and you guys have the same one This BR release is still overall the best version available on home media. Why deny yourself that?


On a side note, I did watch Dark City last night which I am sure is one of the most problematic titles due to DNR specificaly and I still enjoyed the hell out of the movie warts and all. Even with the DNR I still enjoyed the BR transfer more overall compared to the SD-DVD, but that is just me. I certainly wish the DNR was not there, but the good points overshadowed this being the movie (which I love) and the audio track (which I have always loved).

Rant over, flame suit on!
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post #41 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

Given that this is a Warner release, there's probably not going to be another transfer for at least 5 years. That being said, the only person you're punishing by refusing to purchase a title simply because it doesn't look as good as it could (while still destroying the next best thing, the DVD) is yourself. The notion of purchasing the DVD over the Blu Ray simply because the Blu Ray has EE is ludicrous. EE and all, the Blu Ray still destroys the DVD.

If repeating yourself makes you feel right about something that is actually subjective, more power to you.
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post #42 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

Given that this is a Warner release, there's probably not going to be another transfer for at least 5 years. That being said, the only person you're punishing by refusing to purchase a title simply because it doesn't look as good as it could (while still destroying the next best thing, the DVD) is yourself. The notion of purchasing the DVD over the Blu Ray simply because the Blu Ray has EE is ludicrous. EE and all, the Blu Ray still destroys the DVD.


Agreed.
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post #43 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Thanks a lot. I am aware that you are a critical viewer but 75/100 score will suffice to remove TDK from my pre-order. To hell with Warner and thanks to you and others for saving another 20 odd $$$.

Will wait for the inevitable Special Collector's Edition that might be released next year.

At least rent it....My opinions are not that high that anyone should take them at face value because we all perceive things differently...The reason i'd score such a Blu Ray down is because i don't believe a high definition format should have EE on it's releases but in my review i considered the EE only bad in a handful of scenes and minor in a lot. I just don't think any Blu Ray release should be considered reference or close to it if it has EE in it.

The IMAX shot scenes look fantastic on the whole and the film is very entertaining so i would at the very least recommend a rental and if it looks good to your eyes then buy it.
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post #44 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

If repeating yourself makes you feel right about something that is actually subjective, more power to you.

So I take it that you are purchasing the DVD of The Dark Knight instead of the Blu-Ray because of the EE problems?
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post #45 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

So I take it that you are purchasing the DVD of The Dark Knight instead of the Blu-Ray because of the EE problems?

I haven't even stated what my plans are. Please stop making assumptions.
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post #46 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

While I do agree that these shots are a bit jaring, this certainly will not keep me from buying this title. While I do respect what Xylon has done here (and a few others, but not all as some of you IMO have taken this WAY to far), I dont plan on pausing the film and dweling on the issues. I understand that some are VERY sensitive to EE and DNR and this realy dampens their experience with the film, but I am NOT one of those people, and the VAST majority of people watching this wont even know that there is an issue because they dont know any better. Do I wish these issues were not there? Of course, but I imagine watching this film as one normaly watches a film (in motion) the issue will not be nearly as jaring FOR MOST as these screenshots are showing which is evidence by the many glowing PQ reviews (including our own Ralph Potts) where the EE was noted, but most claimed was minor at best. I think the vast majority of people (again, not the videophiles. You poor tortured souls j/k) will be very happy with this transfer (besides hard core AVS'ers and the like). That does not make what is going on here correct, but this will be a non issue or minor issue at best for most.

I understand what you guys are doing here and it is good that you are doing it in hopes that it will bring better transfers in the future and lessen this practice, but this only hurts this amazing film experience as much as you let it after all the screenshots have been posted and it is beaten into our heads how bad this transfer is, and there are MANY positive things about this release that hopefully some of you will consider as well before tossing it into the fire. I myself am VERY EXCITED to hear the audio and just experience this great film. Honestly, I find it crazy to pass up on this release due to this issue as this very well could be the best transfer we ever get of this amazing film. Even if there is a double dip down the road there is a good chance it will be the same identical transfer. I am going to enjoy the DK warts and all and that is a choice and you guys have the same one This BR release is still overall the best version available on home media. Why deny yourself that?


On a side note, I did watch Dark City last night which I am sure is one of the most problematic titles due to DNR specificaly and I still enjoyed the hell out of the movie warts and all. Even with the DNR I still enjoyed the BR transfer more overall compared to the SD-DVD, but that is just me. I certainly wish the DNR was not there, but the good points overshadowed this being the movie (which I love) and the audio track (which I have always loved).

Rant over, flame suit on!


Oh in the review i did i gave praise and didn't just condemn the entire film....go read it at my site darkrealmfox.com and you will see that...I just think calling this release reference would be a mistake and i know some sites are doing just that. ( dial up users stay away unless you wanna wait four minutes for the page to load )
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post #47 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

I just think calling this release reference would be a mistake and i know some sites are doing just that.

Definitely on point. Perhaps the reviewers are just so enamored with the IMAX scenes that they feel make up for the EE in 35mm scenes? But you are absolutely right in saying that a reference disc should have no EE applied to it, and therefore The Dark Knight is hardly reference. It's such a shame because the 2K DLP presentation of it looked stunning.
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post #48 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:49am
People don't HAVE to purchase any title. They can netflix it if they want to enjoy the film. Even keep it at home. Many people don't buy every release that comes out.
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post #49 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Oh in the review i did i gave praise and didn't just condemn the entire film....go read it at my site darkrealmfox.com and you will see that...I just think calling this release reference would be a mistake and i know some sites are doing just that. ( dial up users stay away unless you wanna wait four minutes for the page to load )

I was not refering to you. I think your opinion was fair. Many sites are calling it ref which is interesting as well since most of them also noted the EE issue. This makes me think that in motion while actualy just watching the film this issue appears much less severe than these screenshots are showing to most people (again, not all). Also the degree to which EE bothers people varies from person to person obviously with most oblivious to it completely. In a real world watching experience for most people this could be considered a reference transfer (apparently according to all the reviews that are rating it that way) even though it truly is not. And after seeing these shots I do agree with you guys that this is NOT a reference transfer. This is why I am still excited and will be at my local store on Dec 9th cash in hand. I put more weight into these reviews than this screenshot thread because the reviews are giving their scores based on real world viewing situations and (no offense to the hardcore videophiles) their opinions on what they are seeing are more in line with what the vast majority will see as the vast majority does not have a clue what EE or DNR is and hence will not even see it. 99+% of the viewers who will buy this disc are not pausing the film, going up to the screen, taking a photo, etc....Again I am not putting these practices down and understand their place, but 99% of the people will be happy with the PQ on this release. I plan on being one of those even though I can see it is not a ref transfer, EE is not something I am sensitive to.
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post #50 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:52am
this is disappointing to say the least -- looks like an upconvert
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post #51 of 1595
11/29/08 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

People don't HAVE to purchase any title. They can netflix it if they want to enjoy the film. Even keep it at home. Many people don't buy every release that comes out.

You make it sound like we're discussing some random movie that came out in 2008, not the second highest grossing film ever produced and the fourth highest rated movie of all time on IMDB. Give it a few months and I'm sure there will be more honors to tack on that list. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that if any "exceptions" that are going to be made this year in regards to purchasing decisions, they're going to be made for this title. Yeah, many people don't buy every title, but I think it's safe to say even those types will be purchasing Dark Knight. Everyone is expecting this movie to break home video sales records. This is a film that most people apparently want to add to their collections, regardless of how small or large those collections might be.

All that being said, Warner is obviously well aware of this and knows it can get away with releasing this disc with picture quality worse than what it could and SHOULD look like. Still, we all here are familiar with Warner's Blu Ray business practices, so nobody should be holding their breath waiting for some new transfer or new encoding anytime soon.
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post #52 of 1595
11/29/08 at 10:04am
OK..... Based on the original screen caps that were posted in the other thread, I was disappointed, but not devastated. Then I came in here and saw the screen cap of the cop in post# 2 above (that shot even gives the HD-DVD of Tremors a run for it's money).... Xylon, you owe me a new monitor (I need one anyway...), since I just spit my Pepsi all over this one...
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post #53 of 1595
11/29/08 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

So I take it that you are purchasing the DVD of The Dark Knight instead of the Blu-Ray because of the EE problems?

who the hell would do that? i've seen the DVD and it's even worse in terms of EE
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post #54 of 1595
11/29/08 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Oh in the review i did i gave praise and didn't just condemn the entire film....go read it at my site darkrealmfox.com and you will see that...I just think calling this release reference would be a mistake and i know some sites are doing just that. ( dial up users stay away unless you wanna wait four minutes for the page to load )

Foxy, I just typed in darkrealmfox.com and all I got was a lingerie site???

Never mind, I found the blu-ray review section.
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post #55 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:01pm
There's no doubt that these screencaps look terrible, and that there is EE galore. But it just didn't seem so obvious on my 84" screen, and I've watched it three times. Oh well, this gives me an excuse for a fourth viewing ASAP(I love the movie, EE and picture flaws be damned).
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post #56 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:14pm
I'm going to purchase this title because I can't turn down the opportunity to own this amazing movie... but sweet ****ing christmas, this transfer is awful.

Shame on you, Warner. Shame.
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post #57 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

Are you a film lover or a tech lover?

I am a film lover, and I have enjoyed plenty of films with sub par home video presentations, but it's frustrating when "tech" issues have to intrude upon my enjoyment of the film. It's unfortunate that the best transfers are generally wasted on mediocre movies...
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post #58 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

Given that this is a Warner release, there's probably not going to be another transfer for at least 5 years. That being said, the only person you're punishing by refusing to purchase a title simply because it doesn't look as good as it could (while still destroying the next best thing, the DVD) is yourself. The notion of purchasing the DVD over the Blu Ray simply because the Blu Ray has EE is ludicrous. EE and all, the Blu Ray still destroys the DVD.

What is your evidence that there will not be another transfer for 5 years? Full Metal Jacket is probably the most obvious example of a Warner Blu-ray that was quickly released in a second edition due to poor image quality. There have also been others. In addition, the poor supplement package is another indication that Warner has plans to release another edition.
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post #59 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

You make it sound like we're discussing some random movie that came out in 2008, not the second highest grossing film ever produced and the fourth highest rated movie of all time on IMDB.

I don't purchase films because they're "highest grossing" or ranked on IMDB.
About my fave film of all time is "The Last Picture Show". How much did that gross?
I don't buy films because everyone else does. I honestly don't care what everyone else buys either. Otherwise my record collection would be filled with Mariah Carey, The Jonas Brothers, Josh Groban...
You make it sound like we all have ONLY two choices here, buy the BD or buy the inferior DVD or else we are "punishing" ourselves. If I want to watch and enjoy TDK, I can rent it. If I want to watch it again later, I can rent it again. (Netfilx charges a flat fee per month, not per titles rented)
With the economy the way things are nowadays, I don't buy nearly as many BD's as I used to buy DVDs. It has to be a fave film of mine and one where they did a great job transfer-wise.
After Dark City and Gangs of NY, I NEVER blind buy EVER.
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post #60 of 1595
11/29/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I don't purchase films because they're "highest grossing" or ranked on IMDB.
About my fave film of all time is "The Last Picture Show". How much did that gross?
I don't buy films because everyone else does. I honestly don't care what everyone else buys either. Otherwise my record collection would be filled with Mariah Carey, The Jonas Brothers, Josh Groban...
You make it sound like we all have ONLY two choices here, buy the BD or buy the inferior DVD or else we are "punishing" ourselves. If I want to watch and enjoy TDK, I can rent it. If I want to watch it again later, I can rent it again. (Netfilx charges a flat fee per month, not per titles rented)
With the economy the way things are nowadays, I don't buy nearly as many BD's as I used to buy DVDs. It has to be a fave film of mine and one where they did a great job transfer-wise.
After Dark City and Gangs of NY, I NEVER blind buy EVER.


I'm not sure if you purposely dodged my point or if you just didn't get it. The point is that many people consider The Dark Knight to be a masterpiece, just as you consider The Last Picture Show to be a masterpiece... And to say that you wouldn't add The Last Picture Show to your Blu Ray collection simply because of EE problems and would just netflix it whenever you wanted to watch it seems a little ridiculous.

Even if the transfer of a particular title on Blu Ray is labeled "poor", it's still more than likely going to look vastly superior to the DVD, and if you're interested in adding the best home video version of your favorite film to your collection only if it is an amazing transfer, then perhaps you should reevaluate your hobby, because it sounds like you care more about the tech gadgets than you care about the entire reason why you're purchasing these tech gadgets in the first place

And of course, this leads back to The Dark Knight, which, your personal opinion on the movie aside, is a film that MANY people rank among their favorite movies of all time. And the fact that it's the second highest grossing movie ever and so high on IMDB actually IS relevant as it will more than likely directly correlate to consumers choosing to add it to their personal movie collection instead of renting it. So when you make comments about people not having to buy every movie that comes out, it seems a little obtuse when discussing this movie in particular simply because of the impact that it has had on moviegoers across the globe, and the likelyhood that it's going to be the best selling movie on dvd/blu ray ever.
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