The Dark Knight comparison *PIX* - Page 3

Wow. Where is my evidence? Where is your evidence that the poor supplement package means that there will be a new transfer of Dark Knight? I am Legend and 300 are getting new Ultimate editions as well but are confirmed to not receive new transfers or encodes. I'd say that Warner's unwillingness to create new encodes of old HD-DVD titles such as Batman Begins, The Matrix, etc. etc. should probably crush anyone's hopes that Dark Knight will receive a new transfer anytime soon. I mean hell, how many new releases (note, catalog titles such as FMJ and TFE don't count!) that have came out since the inception of Blu Ray have received new encodes with their double dips? I honestly can't think of any.

Alexander, with all due respect, you just don't get MY point that people don't HAVE to buy every single film that comes out to enjoy it. Once again, I for one, don't CARE what "everyone" is going to buy. I NEVER once said that these PQ issues would affect the massmarket sales of this title.
I don't know what you do for a living or if you have a family, but how much spare time or extra money do you think everyone has?
I barely have time to watch anything what with working full-time plus raising a kid. If I get 2-3 hours a night to watch anything, how often do you think I would get around to one particular film?
My "collection"...? "Library"...?
When I was young and single, I bought over 600 Dvds. I then often bought the "SE's" with the "new improved transfers!" I have many discs that I have only watched once and a few of my very favorites which I might get to see once a year.
Add to that mix a less than stellar transfer...?
So, yes, netflixing a film is perfectly acceptable for ME. Why must you try to influence what other people do? You want to buy the BD? Fine. Knock yourself out. Enjoy it. Watch it eleven times this week. But if I and some others might want to rent it, that's our prerogative.


This whole long-ass OT back and forth started because you wrote..


...because someone you don't know decided not to buy this disc. He is allowed to do that without getting chastised for you for not being a "film lover."

then you wrote this to another member...



As if people have once again, ONLY two choices. MY whole point is that people have a third choice. Not to BUY it at all. They can rent it to actually watch the film in question.
If someone watches a film and thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, they still don't HAVE to run out and buy it. Many who post here at AVS don't just blindly follow the popular trends. We are all aware that this disc will be huge. Nobody here is saying to others, "DON'T buy the disc!!!!" If people want to, fine. But people also have the right NOT to buy the disc and that's fine too.

I got your point, but you still don't seem to understand mine, or at least you're acting like you don't, because I was explicitly NOT talking about purchasing every single film that comes out, quite the opposite actually. For the sake of this thread, I'll not continue this more here, if you'd like further discussion and a clearer explanation, I'll take it to PM, otherwise, it's dropped, and a moderator can delete this OT nonsense.

I do understand yours. Don't have to agree with it is all just like you don't have to agree with mine.
Let's leave it at that.

If you've seen the movie and enjoyed it, I don't know why you would pass this up because it's not perfect or reference quality. It's still going to look much better than the 480i over compressed MPEG2 DVD with its lossy track. While I do expect this to get re-released down the road, I highly doubt it will be a new transfer. It will more than likely be a repackaging with new extras and fluff features for the third movie.

Agreed. Considering Warners track record a new transfer is highly doubtfull with the re-release whenever that may surface.

I would really like to see the Blu-Ray side-by-side with the DVD before I pass any more judgement, but it is quite clear to me that TDK is not a reference quality disc. It also does not look horrible to me either. Disappointing to say the least, but not the end of the world.

To those of you who will chime in (I have already seen one person in this thread and quite a few in the other thread) and say that you are canceling your order, I think that is extreme. This is simply too good a movie to pass up on Blu-Ray (unless you are renting the BD) because it is not reference PQ. Face it. The PQ is still going to blow away the DVD. Xylon had posted one DVD screenshot before he yanked it and it looked horrible. Much worse than the Blu-Ray. I am not sure what other option you have. This is a movie I will watch over and over again and is well worth the $21-24 I see it selling for.

To get things back on topic, this shot right here is awful and unacceptable. The image is so processed that the Joker's face looks very muddy and lacking in definition. Definitely NOT a result of 35mm film use, either... Take a look at Pfister's work using the same filming techniques in The Prestige:



The Prestige just looks so much more natural, filmic and has a much more pleasing look to it.

Xylon, are you going to do some comparison shots to the DVD like you normaly do? I would be curious to see those.

For those looking to pass on this one you may consider it once it makes it to the discount bin.
Shame we pay the same money for lesser quality transfers that we do for the ones that get the special treatment.

While it doesn't look like the Prestige shot, simply saying one shot should look as good as another, everything being equal if that is even possible to compare, is a broad misleading statement and that is the very essence and basis of fault with ANY of these screen caps. To top it off everyone's displays and monitor when viewing these still shots and even video clips on the net are too dependent on all the variable of graphics cards and if they are or not exactly as they should be in terms of color, clarity, depth, black levels, gamma and on and on. On my monitor which I have my HTPC connected to it, the shot you show while not as "clear" or as good PQ as the Prestige shot, looks good and I sit @ 8ft.

Again it is really erroneous and misleading to show these shots and make these claims and is the reason why so many of us including insiders are calling BS on caps or most insiders and reviewers don't even visit these threads.

Agreed - I don't know why these still aren't being posted.

I rent anymore except for a few top titles. To buy something even if I watched it more than a couple of times seems silly to waste the space, money and time. I have to admit it is easy for me to say this since I live in a small town with a Hollywood video 2 min. away.

Unfortunately even though I understand and within reason support the point of view of the few on here that won't buy the titles based on PQ, it will have NO impact on the improvement on the title itself or future titles.

Even the IMAX shots are sharpened. What, were they not good enough for IMAX?

I absolutely am, which is why this is a low priority for me. Calling this a masterpiece is a stretch. This is a great action flick, maybe the best comic book film I've seen; but nothing revolutionary or masterful about it in terms of film history.

It's a fun, simple movie, not nearly as cerebral as the hordes of fans try to label it. Engaging characters, great action sequences. That's about it. In fact, elaborating on the Two Face character to the point that they did is a bit distracting from what could have been a more solid and focused plot.

It's perhaps one of the best greek tragedies to come out of the film industry in decades... In my opinion, of course. Story aside, Wally Pfister's camerawork shines through in one of the most beautifully photographed films of the 21st century, and already has gone down in film history as the first hollywood feature film to have any portion of it filmed in IMAX cameras.

You guys are aware that the joker is wearing nearly as much make up as Barbra Walters right? Could have some thing to do with the lack of definition in his face.

Sorry, Daniel Plainview is a far superior study of a tragically flawed character than the Bruce Wayne figure can hope to be through anyone's lens.

There's tons I like about TDK, it's just that the rave reviews dubbing it a "masterpiece for all time" come from fans whose film experience slides closer to the action/comic book/Vin Diesel scale than towards the Fellini/avant garde/De Niro scale. 4th on IMDB? ...should I even comment?

It is a masterpiece in the action genre, no doubt. It's far and away smart when you line it up next to its peers. Is it a great flick? Absolutely. Is it in the caliber of Raging Bull? No.

Honestly, I think we learn a lot more about humanity through the simple, perfect story in 90 minutes of Wall-E than we do in 2.5 hours of TDK. Which in the film world, is theoretically more successful. Well, that was before Star Wars redefined the notion of success, and let the youngens have a voice in what the rest of us should be watching.

Paying the same money for a lesser quality transfer will never change. If all titles were equal in PQ, we would not appreciate the good titles as much.

I think its a shame that people would pass on this title just because of these issues IF they love this movie considering this is the best version available for home use and this may be the best we get period. Its not perfect, but would it be better to have nothing or the overall inferior SD-DVD upconverted with lossy audio? No way. I think we should start looking at the glass half full at this point since dweling on the negatives will not change anything at this stage. The point has been made, the BR is not perfect. It may or may not get a better transfer in the future, but the present situation is this is the best we got. How about we see how it compares to the SD-DVD which should give us more appreciation for the BR and put this into perspective a bit

Will TDK come out in Japan or another country with a different transfer?

I'd gladly import TDK from another country if it had a superior transfer...

Yes, even on RT this got 94% and I know, I know opinions, but come on. The story was a let down, the comments on the acting was exaggerated and over hyped due to Heath's death which he will probably win an academy with a strong bias due to his death.

Of the major action, hero and comic book flicks of the summer, this may have the most favorable reviews, but IMO it ranks behind Iron Man, Hellboy2, and even Hulk for an overall experience and I did see TDK in the theatre, but the other three at home. If anything the impact of TDK in the theatre should have overrode the other three at home, but it didn't.

Why would any one else care, its their choice how they spend their money. Some people actually put PQ first.

Then I think that is a shame to put PQ above the actual movie itself IF they truly love the movie in question. If you truly LOVE a movie and pass on it just because of PQ issues, even though it is still the best version available I think you truly have your priorities out of line. Just my opinion.

Some us bought/own 2, 3 or even 4 versions of some movies on DVD because better quality versions came out over time (Anchor Bay was the worst offender). Not everyone wants to repeat this experience with Blu-Ray. Some people are holding off purchasing obviously flawed versions of movies knowing that they will just end up buying it again when a better version is released some day. This one could obviously be improved upon by the studio and most likely will be some day.

You make a good case playing devils ad. to not watch the first 40 years give or take of Hollywood movies based on PQ. Imagine if some passed up on some 1930's and 1940's titles because they didn't look like they should or could by today's standards.

It's not lack of definition, it's "too much" definition, if you will. EE filters (i believe the precise term for the one used here is unsharp masking) can be useful to a point, but when applied too heavily it stops looking like a naturally sharp image and starts looking unnatural and unpleasant.
here's a little web app you can play around with to see the effects of the filtering...
http://microscope.fsu.edu/primer/jav...g/unsharpmask/

Maybe it will be improved, maybe in wont. Given Warners track record, I would not hold my breath. Obviously though everyone can play this hand as they see fit as it is a gamble either way. If you buy it, maybe they re-release it someday AND with a better transfer (I dont see both of these happening from Warner, but anything is possible) and you now have the inferior version and if you care enough you make the double dip. If they dont release an updated better transfer, they you have denied yourself OWNING the best version available for however many months/years. It is a gamble either way.

Thank you Hughmc, and I agree

I think it is good that we can have a civil debate on this even if we dont all agree by the way and even though some of us are strongly opinionated (but in a respectful tone).

Just to add my input left the movie for last night ,(Saturday night)to watch and thoroughly enjoyed it. Awesome film, im glad I bought it.I was to immersed in the film to even notice, I thought the PQ was great. Audio was fantastic.