Canon can legally produce SED TVs now  

A couple of weeks ago someone had posted a add from Canon Japan that said they were hiring people for SED production in one of their plants there. While it was clear that it was for SED, there was no mention of what the purpose of the screens were going to be. Could have been pre-production reasearch, or all out mass production of TV screens.

Right now it is a wait and see game.

And if it comes about it will really put pressure on current technologies.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/12736...ch_sed_tv.html

This is why I bought a decent LCD but low end. If I had bought a Kuro Elite I would be kicking myself in the rear.

Lets hope it comes about.

Auditors dream maybe around the corner.

Cband
I am suprised that Auditor has not found this thread already.

I too am waiting for a better alternative to the LCD/Plasma domimation. While Kuros are good sets for sure, I will not worship one like many here seem to.

OLED will have it's own issues, but we will see if we can live with them. IMO OLED is going to happen in the future, in better examples than the little Sony set.

FED Inc. or what ever their name is will run out of money without ever producing a product. I think that is a dead end.

SED is an unknown at the moment.

When all of these techs come to some form of marketable maturity, I will be ready to replace at least one of my sets. I hope there are some better alternatives at that time.

now we will see if this nano proprietary joke was really a scapegoat for canon's production failures as some said. if i find out this delay was due to a patent whore ill be pissed. congrats to canon anyway.

I'd like to see one in person. oldcband, that article is two years old so I wonder how it really stacks up to today's TVs that are two generations newer, with a third generation coming this spring.

I realize nobody really knows for sure, but if the neoplasmas live up to their promises, the only advantage I see to SED is the absence of phosphor trails? IR isn't a problem for me on my Panasonic and SED should have the same uneven wear concerns, right?

I apologize for being a bit ignorant on the topic, but after LaserVue you can hopefully understand my skepticism.

The big question that all of us have.


Since SED will use phosphors yes there could be uneven aging of the materials. What no one knows is the type they will use. Plasma had burn in issues because of the type of phosphors they needed to use, they have gotten allot better but IR is still an issue. Will there still be green trails? Who knows, this is from the green phosphor decay time being longer than the red and blue, but not all people see it.

OLED may suffer from the same issues with uneven aging of RGB and may need to have some color correction after some years of use (it seems that the material they use for blue in many cases ages quicker and loses luminance).

Applied Nanotech has waved it's right to appeal the ruling, but it may be too late for Canon to proceed on introducing SED product.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/c...e-world-doesn/

Key excerpt: (From the horse's mouth.)

"it may actually be too late for Canon to even salvage the win, with president Tsuneji Uchida noting that "at times like this, new display products are not introduced much because people would laugh at them.""

Or not. It will still suffer some of Plasma's problems - it has phosphors. Canon has said they will get 100,000:1 contrast. That's 1/10th of OLED's 1,000,000:1. Personally, I'm holding out for that. And since it's probably 5 years off that's why I bought a moderate LCD (not too low end), that will make a fine bedroom TV or something once OLED is out and proven.

SED shouldn't have any problems that weren't present on CRT tubes since the technology is basically the same except for individual emitters replacing the scanning electron gun. Along the sames lines, theoretically it should perform at least as well as the best CRT displays with the added advantage of not suffering from geometry or convergence issues (caused by the scanning electron beam).

People poke fun at SED since it has been vaporware for the past couple of years but if someone were to actually come out and announce production models nobody would be laughing at it.

From the first time I read about SED I knew it was the one tech that would end the current techs today.

Yes hype seems to rule the day here on the AVS but theres promise with SED. SD has to be better on this tech its a CRT. Will it have issues? Yes. But I looked for some of the articles I read a few years ago and can't find them explaining how it works. Thanks Art^^^ for explaining.

But for those who saw them at the 2006 CES show came home and were calling there stockbroker to buy stock. Theres no plasma or LCD that can compete.

If it doesn't come about the consumer is the big loser.

Not necessarily. While CRT and SED are similar in their method of lighting phosphors with electrons SED is still a fixed pixel device and would need an internal scaler unless you like watching a tiny 720x480 image on the screen. Unlike current flat-panel technologies, however, SED can draw the screen using a line-by-line scan method which means that it can display interlaced material natively.

Probably a Pioneer double agent.

i'm not poking fun at it - I just don't see what the huge advantage is over plasma. I'm waiting for OLED.

If it has direct view crt quality in a flat panel display with large screen sizes then it should blow all other formats out of the water. That being said, the best picture quality alone doesn't determine winning, for example Laserdisc was the champ in picture quality for a long time among consumer video playback devices in North America, but it was a huge bomb.
The current technologies certainly aren't a worthy sucessor to CRT as of yet, but hopefull OLED or SED should give us at least CRT quality if not better.

But folks forget that even CRTs can have phosphor lag. OLED is the wave of the future, baby.

Reality Check:

Canon's President recently said that if they were to try and introduce such a product, in times like these, they would be laughed at.

That sure sounds like they have no plans to start marketing SED. Read it for yourselves.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/c...e-world-doesn/


Excerpted:

"Canon recently declared victory after winning a lawsuit against Applied Nanotech that was previously holding it back from making progress, and now Applied Nanotech has waved the final white flag by giving up its right to appeal. Comically enough, it may actually be too late for Canon to even salvage the win, with president Tsuneji Uchida noting that "at times like this, new display products are not introduced much because people would laugh at them." Shh... nobody tell him the world's been laughing at SED for years."

Well if the production model was 50" in size and cost $20,000 there probably wouldn't be much gloating either. I understand that some people like the idea of SED since it has some similarities to CRT technology but unlike OLED there has never been any evidence that SED can be affordably mass produced in any size.

And how long will it take for a product to come out? SED was BIG news years ago but plasma and LCD have improved quite a bit and keep improving. Could it be too little too late? And don't forget that SED was supposed to be expensive. I'm just not seeing this happening anytime soon.

I give it at least 5 years before it becomes competitive with at least a 60" plasma or LCD. A $20K 60" SED ain't going to fly in 2010 or 2011.

Here's a quote about one of Samsung's own in reference to a possible 50" OLED set to be shown at CES(and also noted that if they were to release a model today it would likely cost 10 times the price of a comparable plasma/LCD):

"Kim then shifts into sales-mode by pointing out that Samsung's more power-efficient 240Hz LCDs and Plasmas with highly-reflective black panels and LED edge-lighting are quickly cutting into any advantage offered by OLEDs -- including thinness if you factor in the additional electronics you'd have to slap onto the back of those 3-mm thick OLED panels to create a TV."

Having said that, plasma and LCD are improving despite what some believe. People were amazed with SED when it first came out mainly because of the black levels which (at least with the Pioneers) is becoming a non-issue. Once plasmas get brighter (and reduce the ABL) and LCDs can deliver deep blacks on average scenes (LED models are getting there), then contrast will become a non-issue. And IMO by the time a reasonable sized SED or OLED TV comes to the marked that plasma/LCD will all ready be there, be significantly cheaper, and come in larger sizes.

Everyone gets so hyped up over all the new technology coming out but the advantages of new technology like OLED and SED gets smaller and smaller as plasma/LCD keep improving and getting cheaper. Let me know about this when we are getting close to getting at minimum a 60" screen for no more than $7k MSRP. I'm just not one of those guys that wants to bash todays technology for new technology may not be readily available for another 5 years. I don't know about you guys buy I'm not getting any younger.

I was invited to the premier showing of SED panels at the January 2006 CES Las Vegas show. Toshiba had a very impressive demonstration in a private totally dark room and the panels looked excellent. Nice black levels and fine detail. The source material demonstrated very vibrant deeply saturated colors.

This year we'll see several new back lit LCD panels with very powerful cell processors that I am interested in seeing. No SED that I know of, but hopefully sometime in 2010.

-Robert

I totally agree.

By the time a new technology comes out, we'll still have to wait a couple more years for the price to come down to today's current pricing.
Ideally, I'd like to buy a new 60" next year. But this will depend on the brand/model that has the performance, picture, and ability to be calibrated as well or better than a current Kuro Elite, for under $4K. Hopefully this will be realistic.

Apparently Canon is working on a new production process that will reduce costs drastically. Now may still be a bad time to introduce them however.

"Tsuneji Uchida, Canon's president, told the FT: "In regards to SED, we have a new production process we're working on which is cost competitive with liquid crystal displays." Canon sees displays as a natural complement to its existing business of cameras, printers and copiers."

From ft.com

Think of it this way, there are a dozen or so Olympic Track Runners running a 10,000 meter race and in the 1/2 portion of the race enters a new racer named SED that runs the same pace and is the same or seems similar as the other runners. Will he/she succeed?? I doubt it. Odds a new SED could compete against an already established producing video tech is dubious at best. The breakthrough would have to be very big.

Reality Check:

When Toshiba withdrew from the SED partnership with Canon, the plans to build a SED production plant were also cancelled, and Canon stated that they still had not developed manufacturing technology that would allow them to mass produce SED panels in a cost efficient manner.

Until they overcome those obstacles, Canon will not be in position to mass market any SED panels.

All Canon has currently is the same small proof of concept facility that they had when they shut the whole thing down.

Until they build a real production plant, their is no need for us to start salivating at each sound of Pavlov SED's bell.

Not necessarily. If the business value is there, manufacturers will quickly migrate to it.

So far though, the opposite appears to be true.

Exactly.

And no one has ever shown conclusively that they have solved the emitter erosion problem, or uneven phosphor wear, or any other problems or concerns connected to the technology.

It won't be free of problems. Nothing ever is. If it were as good as the claims, it would be great. But it seems nothing is ever as good as the claims.

Sounds like you are talking about a PDP. I think that all techs including plasma that use some kind of material to emit light like phosphors or even OLED will be suspect in my mind for just this reason.

Say what you want about LCD, but there is no uneven wear or burn in on color filters.

Not VISABLE with SIMPTE C Phosphors on CRTs.