or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official JVC RS20/HD750 Owners Thread!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official JVC RS20/HD750 Owners Thread! - Page 164  

post #4891 of 5082
Actually you can get the best of both worlds by using your tool to tweak the white balance after a professional calibration. The other colors do not move much with white held constant.

Here are instructions on how to do it. http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=809

With this you do not need an i1 Pro.

I also do white balance touch ups for a much lower fee for previous clients.
post #4892 of 5082
That's true, but in this case I would definately hold out until at least 100 hours on the lamp for a pro job, as the change from 30 to 100 was huge on my HD350.

Glad to hear that there is a discount for the touch ups, I guess the same might be true in the UK. However I would haveb been really annoyed if I'd paid for a 'touch up' at 400 hours when I got my Video EQ Pro and less than two weeks later (10 lamp hours) I got a flicker that meant I had to change to high lamp mode which has more red and shifts the white balance...that would have been bad luck I guess and even a pro couldn't have forseen that.

I might consider a Pro calibration at the start of winter as my lamp will be at 500-550 hours by then I'd guess, so plenty of life left and hopefully stable. That way the CMS in the Video EQ Pro would be properly set for me and I'd only have to touch up the greyscale judging by what you say/imply.

The only issue I have is that I don't like a searingly bright image, so I'd want it calibrated with the iris closed down a bit, but this shouldn't be an issue for a pro with more sensitive meters than mine.
post #4893 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Actually you can get the best of both worlds by using your tool to tweak the white balance after a professional calibration. The other colors do not move much with white held constant.

Here are instructions on how to do it. http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=809

This is my plan, precisely, after you calibrate my projector in June. I'll be using a Spyder2, which is not a great meter, but tends to give consistent grayscale readings on a repeatable basis. So once I know white is correct, I'll record the values that the Spyder2 and HCFR read for correct white, and modify the RGB gains over time to keep close to that reading.... and then get a professional tune up annually, which is about 600 hours of use, in our household.
post #4894 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Actually you can get the best of both worlds by using your tool to tweak the white balance after a professional calibration. The other colors do not move much with white held constant.

Here are instructions on how to do it. http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=809

With this you do not need an i1 Pro.

Thanks for this link, Jeff. I have bookmarked it.

Jeff
post #4895 of 5082
Hi guys, sorry if this has been answered already - I did a quixk search and found no results.

Is it possible to find the settings for thx mode on an rs20? I'd like to play around with the more advanced settings and want to use this is a starting point.
post #4896 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbie View Post

Hi guys, sorry if this has been answered already - I did a quixk search and found no results.

I don't think so.
post #4897 of 5082
When you select THX mode, do the various settings not appear in the menu? If so, you should be able to change them and save them ... just not as THX, right??
post #4898 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

When you select THX mode, do the various settings not appear in the menu? If so, you should be able to change them and save them ... just not as THX, right??

IIRC (not at home now to check), the CMS settings are grayed out.
post #4899 of 5082
THX preset is a particular "custom Made" preset !

You cannot view/change some important and basic parameters like Gamma and CMS !
By Default it use 6500 Color Temp and Normal Gamma, you can trick Color Temp ( by Insert your own Color temp in the Service Menu ) But Cannot trick with Gamma !
Plus, CMS is a particular embedded settings stored in the machine maybe based on LUT and not on the classic CMS controlls .... ( infact when RS20 had the CMS firmware bug, the THX preset was bug free from the linearity issue ).

The only way to "replicate" the THX preset is to Measure it precisely and replicate it to match the same datas (with the new firmware) but it's useless .... better to start from zero and a good probe/software to match your chain, screen, room !
post #4900 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

When you select THX mode, do the various settings not appear in the menu? If so, you should be able to change them and save them ... just not as THX, right??

As others have said THX locks out several of the calibration parameters. On the JVC's it is better to use a User mode and start from scratch.
post #4901 of 5082
Has anyone noticed that changing display refresh frequency from 24Hz to 60Hz gives a more fluid presentation for blu-ray (at least with a home theater PC & PowerDVD) on the RS20? When I rebuilt my HTPC for Windows 7 the nVidia drivers didn't support 24Hz very well so I switched to 60Hz. But when I updated to a later video driver that did 24Hz OK I really noticed that the image was far less fluid, and on some panning scenes you can really see the slow refresh to the point of annoyance (Band of Brothers was particularly annoying). So I'm back to 60Hz and enjoying the fluid motion without losing the film feel.

Possibly I have something wrong with my HTPC 24Hz setup but wanted to check if others had done a similar comparison.
post #4902 of 5082
Sure !

On stand-alone players, there's the possibility to force 60fps disabling the 24p !
Anyway, I noticed a loose in details and image "porosity" respect the native 24p original coded matherials .....

If you have some matherials where you particulary suffer the fluidity on smooth pannings, better to try to keep it in 24p BUT disable the Film Flag, threating it as Video Matherial
post #4903 of 5082
I don't see any loss of detail with 60Hz, if anything the opposite as the detail is clearer when the motion is more fluid. At 24Hz its almost as if I can see each frame refresh (I use a large screen in a dark dedicated room, maybe that is what exacerbates the 24Hz motion judder).
post #4904 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

I don't see any loss of detail with 60Hz, if anything the opposite as the detail is clearer when the motion is more fluid. At 24Hz its almost as if I can see each frame refresh (I use a large screen in a dark dedicated room, maybe that is what exacerbates the 24Hz motion judder).

Interesting. The eye usually likes the uneven 3:2 pull-down cadence required by 24Hz -> 60Hz conversion even less than the 24Hz framerate. That's why 24Hz players and displays were such a big deal when they came out.
post #4905 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Interesting. The eye usually likes the uneven 3:2 pull-down cadence required by 24Hz -> 60Hz conversion even less than the 24Hz framerate. That's why 24Hz players and displays were such a big deal when they came out.

And they still are, which is why I am puzzled by the observations to the contrary. I have the HD750 and a player that outputs 24p; I am in cinematic nirvana.
post #4906 of 5082
Just got my HD750, ugrade from HD350.

I have calibrated all sort of devices the last 1,5 years. And the grayscale and CMS was childsplay on the 750.

But thats not the case with the custom gamma controll. It's driving me mad and it's unlogical.
I have Customizing gamma JCV DLA-HD750 Excel sheet. But when you put in the values at sertent % the others that i just changed are also changing.

Is there a guide how to do this the right way?

i have FW1.1
post #4907 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadran View Post

Just got my HD750, ugrade from HD350.

I have calibrated all sort of devices the last 1,5 years. And the grayscale and CMS was childsplay on the 750.

But thats not the case with the custom gamma controll. It's driving me mad and it's unlogical.
I have Customizing gamma JCV DLA-HD750 Excel sheet. But when you put in the values at sertent % the others that i just changed are also changing.

Is there a guide how to do this the right way?

i have FW1.1

I just monkeyed with it until I got the shadow detail I wanted... a very slight bump at the bottom. There's a trick I don't know about adjusting the one adjacent to the one you're interested in. Hopefully someone who knows will chime in. You'd think if they could fix the CMS they could fix this!
post #4908 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

I just monkeyed with it until I got the shadow detail I wanted... a very slight bump at the bottom. There's a trick I don't know about adjusting the one adjacent to the one you're interested in. Hopefully someone who knows will chime in. You'd think if they could fix the CMS they could fix this!

I think the preset Gamma A has a bump at the bottom, and is ~ 2.3-3.4 above that. I've really not found anything that works better than it.
post #4909 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Has anyone noticed that changing display refresh frequency from 24Hz to 60Hz gives a more fluid presentation for blu-ray (at least with a home theater PC & PowerDVD) on the RS20? When I rebuilt my HTPC for Windows 7 the nVidia drivers didn't support 24Hz very well so I switched to 60Hz. But when I updated to a later video driver that did 24Hz OK I really noticed that the image was far less fluid, and on some panning scenes you can really see the slow refresh to the point of annoyance (Band of Brothers was particularly annoying). So I'm back to 60Hz and enjoying the fluid motion without losing the film feel.

Possibly I have something wrong with my HTPC 24Hz setup but wanted to check if others had done a similar comparison.

I've done extensive testing with 24p and 60p output from my Oppo, and the JVC RS20 is the first video device in years that can accept 24p that actually looks better receiving 60p.

With 24p input, I get a lot more blur in panning shots than I do on 60p. I'm pretty sure it's not the source device or material (only looking at film-based material) since my old Sony SXRD projector responded just the opposite: 24p produced smoother pans with more detail/less blurring.

This is, in fact, the only "step backwards" from my old projector. Everything else including color, detail, black levels, contrast, etc, is better with the JVC. But not the handling of 24p content.
post #4910 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think the preset Gamma A has a bump at the bottom, and is ~ 2.3-3.4 above that. I've really not found anything that works better than it.

I also find The gamma A to be closest to correct 2.2 value. But i wan't to get it up to 2.3 cause i like the more depth you get in the picture. I started with a custom setting with 2.3 as starting point i almost got it up to 2.3 with alot of adjusting. Maybe starting with 2.4-2.5 would be a better starting point?

And does anyone know of a test disk to download with B&W patterns to adjust focus. I did read that you see 3 times more detail when the picture is B&W rather than colour.
post #4911 of 5082
Nathan, we are seeing the same thing then.

I agree with the other posters that it should not be this way, native 24Hz (23.976Hz) should look better, especially with the 3:2 pulldown. But for some reason 60Hz definitely looks better, and I suspected its my source as this has not been reported before. Now that you are reporting the same, possibly its the projector as likewise, my previous projector had no issues with 24Hz using the same source (although I used earlier nVidia drivers), and you use a dedicated player not a HTPC. Can you describe your setup in more detail (cable used, RS20 input settings, large or small screen) to identify something that we have in common that may be the cause.

I have the latest projector firmware.
post #4912 of 5082
updated rs20 firmware. oppo bdp 83 conntected via hdmi to only 885 connected via hdmi to the rs20. rs20 projected onto a 9 ft wide screen. the only thing that might be non standard on my rs20 is that i follow the WSR method of setting the projector to enhanced (expanded HDMI) but the source to standard (video HDMI) output -- to give me headroom in calibration.
post #4913 of 5082
Thanks Nathan, looks like we have nothing in common that could point to why we experience 60hz better than 24hz with the RS20. I use DVI, a HTPC, a 12 foot screen and the projector in the standard input mode.

Also the 3:2 pull down with converting 24hz to 60hz does not bother me (and I live in a PAL 50hz country so should be more sensitive to it compared to you folks Stateside who have been "enjoying" for years ).

Has anyone else had the same experience with 60hz vs 24hz? Any ideas why the 24hz input is inferior? It does seem to be material dependent, some films are worse than others.
post #4914 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Thanks Nathan, looks like we have nothing in common that could point to why we experience 60hz better than 24hz with the RS20. I use DVI, a HTPC, a 12 foot screen and the projector in the standard input mode.

Are you sure that your HTPC is outputting 24fps?
post #4915 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Are you sure that your HTPC is outputting 24fps?

Easy to check on the info screen on the RS20 menu.
post #4916 of 5082
Yep, 24hz.
post #4917 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Yep, 24hz.

Your software has a 24fps output option?
post #4918 of 5082
Yes, latest Nvidia drivers (PowerDVD player). I thought it may have been the HTPC but Nathan has the experience with a different setup, so now I'm thinking its the projector not the source. Note that I'm pretty happy with the 60hz setting, but would like to know why 24hz looks worse. Its almost as if the projector is displaying a framerate lower than 24hz, or maybe I just prefer the look of it running at 60Hz.
post #4919 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Yes, latest Nvidia drivers (PowerDVD player). I thought it may have been the HTPC but Nathan has the experience with a different setup, so now I'm thinking its the projector not the source. Note that I'm pretty happy with the 60hz setting, but would like to know why 24hz looks worse. Its almost as if the projector is displaying a framerate lower than 24hz, or maybe I just prefer the look of it running at 60Hz.

I would try to borrow a standalone player that outputted 24fps before concluding that 60Hz was better.

Jeff
post #4920 of 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I would try to borrow a standalone player that outputted 24fps before concluding that 60Hz was better.

Jeff

Agreed. That is how I did my test, as well.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official JVC RS20/HD750 Owners Thread!