"Official" Olive Thread Opus 4, Opus 6, Melody 2, Olive 2, Olive 4/ 4HD, 06HD - Page 78

Maybe Olive thinks that EXT3 means encryption? Just try one of the EXT3-drivers for Windows.

Hello,

Thanks to the posted advice over the past days, I have finally been successful in accessing the flac files of my Opus 4, both with WinSCP and with XBMC (after loading the older version 10.1 – repeated tries with 11.0 and 12.0 always “Failed to copy one or more files, operation aborted”). I needed no new tricks that haven’t already been posted, but I could certainly summarize the process if it would be helpful to anyone.

The remaining BIG PROBLEM is that the copied files, although perfectly accessible/playable flac’s, do not preserve any of my metadata editing I did within the Olive, which is really the main reason I wanted the access (loading to iTunes, loading to the Olive ONE finally comes out, etc – re-ripping would be a tedious but doable task, but re-editing, especially my large number of classical albums, would be a nightmare).

After no edited metadata turned up with the files copied through WinSCP, I turned to XBMC because at least it showed the edited metadata when it looked at the files in the Olive, but as soon as they were copied, the editing was gone. This is not to say there was no metadata, but with both methods (WinSCP and XBMC) what was there appeared to be either what was assigned with the original ripping, or perhaps what could be accessed from online databases (o.k. for popular music, but horrendous for classical).

Does anyone know how to preserve/attach metadata editing that occurs after ripping to the Olive? Not sure about the XBMC method, but I expect that it must be present within one or more of the multitude of folders accessible through WinSCP, although whether it could be coordinated with the flac files is a different issue.

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

All metadata is in zDB in the data map.
It's a sqlite database.
Find yourself a decent sqlite editor/reader and start experimenting/learning.
For android there are numerous sqlite apps, for firefox there is a sqlite addon, etc.
It's now that the fun starts.

I occasionally delve into the inner structure to get some grip, but I bet someone more into sqlite than me will come up with a workable export.

The NEXT big problem is to find out where to put all the data. Maybe in tags in the flacfiles. But as long you don't know much about your next streamer (if any), there is no much haste.
Just find yourself a streamer that has the abilities for classical music, and maybe you end up with an... Olive

Marc

Thank you again, Marc (although I think this is getting close to being over my head, just like my difficulty handling the earlier ssh instructions -- only WinSCP saved me there!).

Sure enough, opening the zDB file using the Firefox sqlite addon revealed what seems to be every last bit of my edited metadata. But it is scattered among multiple headings/sheets, each of which contains a plethora of rows and columns.

You raise the question of how to attach the info to the flac files (I wouldn't even know where to begin), but I'm also wondering if whatever attachment method one could come up with would be able to automatically identify which info goes with which track? There's no way I could go through 15,000 tracks individually/manually.

You're right that I'm not in rush (I have committed to my next streamer -- contribution made to the Olive ONE project, but who knows when that will actually come), but I have been wanting access to the file data for years, so that I could convert to mp3 for use on iPods with preserved metadata.

UNRESPONSIVE TOUCHSCREEN

The touchscreen of my 4 HD has become UNresponsive. I tried to recalibrate the screen by moving the + with a cap of a pen, but the + stays in the left corner. Therefore I have to reboot the system very frequently on order to clear the screen, for instance to remove the massage "Unit is controlled by an i phone or i pad, please tap the screen" Tapping/pushing the screen, no matter how hard I press, doesn,t help a bit. Another problem is, the Olive is not able to get a software update via WIFI since SV 0.4.2.0. ( The last 2 updates are done by using an USB stick.) The helpdest of Olive is not able to help because they haven't heard of these two problems before. Does it harm to reboot the Olive very frequently? I do hope any of you can give any clue...

Kind regards,
Bram Hillen (Holland)

Your Olive will check the disk more frequently, because it counts the times it is booted without checking.
The disk won't be harmed, although theoretically it will wear out quicker.

I guess some cable inside needs a better fix.

Marc

Hello Mike - Yes, if you could summarize your steps with both Win and XMBC, that would be useful.
Question: with version 10.1 of XMBC, when it copies files, does it include the .flac extension? I am using a MAC, version 11.0 of XMBC and it copies fine, but drops the .flac extension, so files need to be renamed to play. I would like to create a back-up database that is readable by other software, should it come to that.

Thx -- clpetersen

Got the same problem with mine 4HD. Its been repaired once locally here in Denmark and work fine for a short time and now its back at the repair shop. Hope they can resolve the issue. I am thinking a new touch screen maybe needed.

From late January: (regarding audible hard drive hiss from the 06HD). The original thought was to downsize from the 2TB disk to a smaller SSD or HD.

Marc: "Nice to hear that you think I'm an expert, but I don't. With Linux tools I have some experience, but not with Windows or Mac. That said, I think you can downsize as well as upsize the Olives with some clever tools.
I would try it this way:
- Recover a new disk in the Olive with the recovery procedure. In my case this never ends gracefully, but at least it creates the first 3 partitions. You need to make 4 other partitions, but the tool you use can do that while cloning the other partitions. It has to be able to shrink the 7. partition

As I understand it, Acronis can copy the whole disk without disturbing part. 1, which in my case is always ruined.
I don't think that Olives restore program can handle a much smaller target than source, but that's just guessing.
I don't know if Acronis can shrink either.
I have a good experience with 2TB disks from Seagate, just bought 2 Barracuda green disks. The problem with them is that they are so quiet and vibrationless that I hardly can tell if they spin. I must bring my ear to the cd opening and still then its difficult to tell.
So, if shrinking is difficult, you also could think of these hard disks: type ST2000DL003.

Good luck and tell how you go.
Marc
Edited by mumsoft - 1/24/13 at 1:40am"

Update 11 Februaruy: we had a 60 cm snowstorm in Boston this weekend, which gave me some time to look inside the 06HD:

-build quality is very good; designed like a low-volume, hand build system - i.e not big investments in custom tooling and fixtures to minimize space, etc. But high quality components, PC boards and separates like transformers and cables.

- Olive in fact uses the Seagate Hard drives Marc cited above (Barracuda Green). They are mounted on a dual vibration isolation stage, the only sound is the constant backgroud hiss, no seek noises etc. For some reason, the enclosure seems to amplify/resonate this sound, i.e. more audible when closed then when open. Since the Olive is passively cooled, I think adding noise reducing foam is a dubious solution.

-the only 3.5" drives out there that may be (marginally) quieter than the Seagate is the Western Digital Green (which roates at 5400 rpm; Barracude has a 5900 rpm speed), staying in a 2 TB size to make cloning easier.

-since I want to clone this drive anyway, as 'just-in-case' back up, I am considering a 2 TB 2.5" disk, spinning at 5400 rpm. This should change the acoutics enough that it moves away from any resonance (my theory).

-comments? I plan to use a hardware cloning tool, no system-level software involved.(EchoPlus by Logic Cube, which I can borrow from a computer geek friend (er, normal) person).
Overall, opening the 06HD is not difficult, and there are just a few cable to the top cover (switches and display).

Comments? Yes, of course.



Anyway, does a 2.5 inch disk fit?

Aha. I do have pictures. Will post this evening.


Yes, the 2.5" disk should fit,some mounting points may be differnt but the overall mount should work.

Marc -

P2083072.jpg 385k .jpg file

Here are the shots of the 06HD interior.

Also, there are drive 'converters' that take a 2.5" SSD or HD and make it compatible with a 3.5" HD mount/enclosure. Icy Box makes some nice ones.

And one more. The point of all this, ironically, is to get our 06HD ($$$$) to run as quietly as our 03HD($$). Probably should have bought the SSD option, but I acquired the 06 through Olives annual auction.

Thanks.

Your first picture looked more as an artist impression to me but this last one is nice.
My Opus 4's (€€€ and €) look much neater and spacier, for me there is too much stuff inside. Maybe my aging ears can't hear the hiss of the Barracuda's, but I bet that what you said about resonance is right.

Marc

Hi, what an interesting project to install some 2.5" equipment to an Olive !!

An easy and cheap solution to install 2.5" equipment into 3.5" mount are e.g. Cooltek Disk Silencers 2,5".

In 2009 I installed them to swap the standard 3.5"/160GB-HDD from my former Hermstedt Hifidelio musicserver for a new, even noiseless 2.5"/ 500 GB-HDD, using the built-in-3,5" mount.

This tool was rated best by German ‚c t- magazine‘ and provides better air circulation for the HDD in comparison to an closed mount and additional shock adsorbance through their rubber bases.

Review 3 Pictures

( … but I don’t know if they are still available outside Germany ?)

Mats
Edited by Uthlande - 2/13/13 at 8:35am

I am using ´Acronis Migrate Easy 7.0´ for cloning or better ‚mirroring‘ my O 4.1.9.-Linux-EXT3-2TB-HDD automatically.
Aspiration is to get a fully operational clone which could be swapped easily in time if the system would be broken.


migrate easy description

This also works flawlessly from a smaller (e.g. 750GB) to a larger HDD (e.g. 2TB) – but I don’t have any experiences with cloning a larger to a smaller one.

Acronis claims on their homepage both cases, I guess : ´This tool resizes transferred partitions to match new hard disk size´.

Perhaps anyone could test it ?! - But I doubt whether ´AcronisTrue Image´ is able to handle EXT3-Partitions, too !?


Mats
Edited by Uthlande - 2/13/13 at 8:53am

Hello, clpetersen -- sorry I haven't gotten around to summarizing XBMC and WinSCP file copying, but I will. As far as the .flac file extension, I also had trouble with XBMC v11.0 -- it initially copied files but failed to put an extension on the filename, then it repeatedly faled to copy files at all. Upgrading to v12.0 still failed to copy files at all, but uninstalling and then reinstalling the older v10.1 did successfully copy the files with a .flac extension.

To anyone -- I want to reiterate my call for any info relating to preserving edited metadata when copying files from the Olive. Either with XBMC (it seems to recognize the correctly edited data when reading it from the Olive and even names the files with the edited track name .flac when copied, but when those files are played or converted, that info, even the track name, disappears); or WinSCP (way to map/tag the correctly edited info in the zDB file to the individual flac files); or any other method that might be out there.

Thanks,
Mike

My experiences with HDDs:
My Olive Opus 4 was shipped with a ‚Seagate - 750GB/7200rpm - ST3750840SCE - DVR-Class'
After swapping and installing a ‚Western Digital Caviar Green - 2TB/5400rpm - WD20EADS‘ I realized that noises were reduced from whisper-quiet to noiseless.

Mats
Edited by Uthlande - 2/13/13 at 8:07am

Thanks everyone for the feedback
- I willThanks everyone for the feedback
- I will look in the Cool disk silencers. The Icy Box is a full metal 2.5" to 3.5" converter-enclosure, with some internal vibration isoltaion as well.
- So , the options are a WD Caviar Green in 3.5" size or the same in 2.5" size, both 2 TB to avoid cloning headaches.
- I will try the hardware cloning tool I have access too, then a software tool if unsuccessful


I am leaning towards the 2.5" drive, even though the cost is higher, due to the lower power (about 1/2 the power use of the 3.5") and hopefully lower vibration due to smaller disk sizes.

Probably in two weeks I will have a summary. Should be fun; I haven't built a PC project like this in sometime; hopefully I don't bugger something up by being careless. look in the Cool disk silencers. The Icy Box is a full metal 2.5" to 3.5" converter-enclosure, with some internal vibration isoltaion as well.
- So , the options are a WD Caviar Green in 3.5" size or the same in 2.5" size, both 2 TB to avoid cloning headaches.
- I will try the hardware cloning tool I have access too, then a software tool if unsuccessful


I am leaning towards the 2.5" drive, even though the cost is higher, due to the lower power (about 1/2 the power use of the 3.5") and hopefully lower vibration due to smaller disk sizes.

Probably in two weeks I will have a summary. Should be fun; I haven't built a PC project like this in sometime; hopefully I don't bugger something up by being careless.

As requested, a summary of how I have copied files from my Olive Opus 4 to usable FLAC files (although as yet without preservation of my edited metadata) on my computer hard drive, for both XBMC and WinSCP.

In XBMC:

Worked for me on both Mac and PC, but needs to be the older version 10.1 (11.0 and 12.0 both failed to copy files at all, on both platforms).

On the home page, move the cursor over (but do not click/select) “SYSTEM” in the vertical list of large headings; then slide the cursor directly to the right to reveal a smaller vertical sublist, and click/selct “File Manager,” which brings up right and left panels, A and B.

To these, the location of the files, your Olive, and the destination for the copied files need to be added, each by double-clicking “Add source” (can be done for each on either side) and then single-clicking “Browse.”

For the destination of the copied files, it should probably be pretty obvious from the list where to go, just drill down by single-clicking to the drive/folder where you want them copied.

For the Olive location, it may appear as Olive in the initial browse list, or there may be a “upnp” category in the list. If not, click on “Add network location...” at the bottom of the list. Then click the up or down arrows on the Protocol line until it shows “UPnP server” and click “Browse” on the Server address line. This should reveal your Olive -- select that, and then click OK and OK, then select the upnp address that now appears in the list, enter or change the “media source” name if you want, and click OK again.

When both the Olive source and hard drive destinations are in panels A and B, drill down by double clicking in right panel B to the folder where you want the files to be copied. Then double-click the Olive source in left panel A, and drill down to the file, album, artist or however much you want to copy -- right click on it and select copy.

Files don’t seem to have edited metadata preserved, but should have .flac file name extensions (didn’t in 11.0 and 12. versions).


In WinSCP:

This is only for PC -- don’t know if a Mac version exists.

Open a browser (worked for me in Explorer, Firefox and Chrome), and enter the address: http://10.0.0.4/builtDhtmlx.php (substitute 10.0.0.4 with whatever IP address is assigned to your Olive).

Username: olive
Password: e4v1i5l90

Browser page should now read “command run successfully” -- this is it for the browser use, although previous posts indicated that for extensive/lengthy file transfers it may need to be refreshed, or that the Olive should be given something to do (running a “weak” radio station was recommended) to keep this open.

Open WinSCP, login window will appear.

File protocol: SFTP (this was default for me)
Host name: 10.0.0.4 (your Olive’s IP address)
Port number: 22 (again, default for me)
User name: root
Password: tj270442
Private key file:

Select/click “login” (can also select “save” for future use without re-entering specifics) to bring up a window with left and right panels.

The left panel should be various folders within your computer and drives.

The right panel (and now we’re delving beyond my understanding of what’s really going on) is presumably what’s in the Olive.

As far as I can tell, all the useful Olive info is within the “data” folder; specifically the “zDB” file, which contains the metadata, and the “AudioLibrary” subfolder, which holds as far as I can tell all the flac files.

The AudioLibrary folder contains a multitude of of folders with cryptic names like CD_170efe16 that seem to correlate to individual CDs (although there aren’t nearly enough to account for all the CDs on my Olive) and each contain generic “track01.flac” files; but also two folders “imported” and “moved” that each contain a large number of individual flac files that are named somewhat appropriately for the tracks they represent (although not my metadata). Don’t know if there is redundancy between these groups of files, and/or why individual tracks get placed in one category or the other.

How to match the zDB metadata to the individual flac files is a mystery to me (one which I would very much like to have the answer to if anyone knows or can speculate).


Well that may be less than complete, but it’s what I’ve done so far (really just a summary of others’ suggestions on this thread already, haven’t figured out much of anything on my own).

Mike

Now I have another BIG problem. I tried performing an incremental backup ( as I did serveral times before ) but the screen persists in the message,
""""Operation of your Olive is blocked during backup. Please wait until the proces is finished. Step: Preparing""""
Normally the actual backup starts after about 5 minutes, but this time, even after 3 hours wait, the message on the screen stays the same, persiting in the message, mentioned above.
Does anybody knows what to do? Yes, I have already rebooted the system, and tried to perform a backup again, but the result is the same. The 4HD doesn't go further than the massage....Step reparing.....

^^^^

is this the same external drive you have used before?

and you have also rebooted the external drive?

Yes, it is the same external drive. Actually - since SV 0.4.2.0 - I did some incremental backups before, finishing succesfully, but since downloading SV 0.4.3.2 - by USB, because the download by WiFi is not possible since 0.4.2.0 ) the backup proces isn,t possible anymore ( Screen continues to mention: """"""Operation of your Olive is blocked during backup. Please wait until the proces is finished. Step: Preparing"""""so after 3 hours I aborted the prcess. I rebooted the Olive and tried the incremental backup again, but, alas, with the same (non)result, so I abortted the backup again. One day before, I tried to download the latest firmware ( on basis of an advise from Ernesto from helpdesk Olive - by pressing the upper navigation botton+ the fast forward button similtaniously for 6 seconds and then release -, but NOTHING happened ?????? The advise to download the latest firmware is, because I suffer many more bugs, for instance the screen stays unresponsive, downloads os new software not possible via wifi etc etc. Now I really don't know how to perform a backup. I reported Olive, but so far I got no response.....
I hope my music is safe, because I have ripped more than 1700 albums in Waw ( Very very timeconsuming )

Hello Bram - Reading your post, I tried an incremental backup on software version 4.3.2, which I haven't done since the software upgrade. I am happy to say (sorry to say?) it completed without issue in about ten minutes (say 8-10 CD's additional since the last backup). I also upgrade to 4.3.2 over the network (hardwired to the OLIVE), not a USB upgrade, not sure if this has any relevance.

Curious if your back-up drive is big enough for 1700 Wav files.

Hello CLPeterson,

The reason why I performed the download with an USB is, since SV 0.4.2.0 the Olive does NOT download the update wireless ( strange, because I can import new albums wireless from my laptop computer, an my i phone also works flawlessly via WiFi. I send 3 times an e mail to Olive withe the message ""Hi Ernesto,
Now I have another BIG problem. I tried performing an incremental backup ( as I did serveral times before, since SV 0.4.2.0 ) but since I installed 0.4.3.2 by using an USB stick - not possible via WiFi anymore -, the screen persists in the message, """"Operation of your Olive is blocked during backup. Please wait until the proces is finished. Step: Preparing""""
Normally the actual backup starts after about 5 minutes, but this time, even after 3 hours wait, the message on the screen stays the same, persiting in the message, as mentioned before. I rebooted the system serveral times, but still I can not backup my music anymore. Any clue?

Kind regards,
Bram Hillen
"
But so far I did not get an answer what to do.
BTW. 1700 albums in WAW takes 973 GB, so about 880 GB left ( total space 1780 GB )

I think it is very annoying I can not backup my albums anymore.

If you want to know where the problem comes from, you could try to backup on a fresh, empty disk. Of course this means you must have such a spare disk, and, if this succeeds, it will take a very long long time, but then you know that your original backup disk has some flaws.
And if it does not succeed, and you keep having the annoying Please wait message in the Preparing step for hours, then you know it's a problem in the Olive.

Maybe that does not help very much, but at least you know something more.

Gosh, two Olives, two external backups, and still some bad luck.
I was ripping a cd when the process stopped in the middle. I had to reboot the Olive, and restarted the ripping. Some time later I was editing the metadata, and it failed. On the Olive a brief message about a sda failure.
After that, I noticed that the ripping process did not show the end message anymore. It just spew out the cd after the rip, but I could find the tracks in Maestro, so I was not very alarmed. But the About your Libary function now dis not show any number anymore also.
I decided to backup and have a look at the zDB.

For sqlite you have pragma to check the integrity. This said:

"*** in database main ***
Page 46996: btreeInitPage() returns error code 11
Page 46995: btreeInitPage() returns error code 11
On tree page 45602 cell 17: Child page depth differs
On tree page 45602 cell 18: Child page depth differs
Page 25135 is never used"

Google is your friend, but the message was not so friendly: my zDB was in error, the database was kaduuk, and beyond repair.
Restore time!
Yes, but not with my last backup, which contained the problem as well.
So I had to revert to the state where my other Olive was, and lost many hours of editing and several rips.

It learned me that the zDB has no provisions to overcome such a failure. There is no log.
http://www.sqlite.org/howtocorrupt.html

Maybe I will try to define a log to see how the Olive behaves with that.

Marc

Marc Well you know more than most about the Olive database. Hopefully this is a one time event.

I hope so too. Anyway, I won't try to backup my work when there is another failure, at least not on top of what I have.

When this all happened, I wanted to get what I had on my other Olive, which I had updated several times, but which was not yet up-to-date, of course.
I attached the other backup disk at my pc and began rsyncing. To my amazement, this operated very, very slow. In contrast, when I do the same with my now havocked Olive2, this works much faster.
I really don't know why it was so slow, but I tried it another way.

I attached the backup disk directly to the Olive with USB. The Olive asked me what I wanted to do (Backup, Restore, Upgrade...), but I canceled.
In short, I SSH-ed tot the Olive, made a new directory mntmarc, mounted the sdb5 and sdb7 to it, and rsynced the /CFG and /DATA to them, respectively.
This time it was as fast as it could be!
Of course, without RSYNC from Frank, this had not been possible.

Now I do the same on my Olive2, to make regular backups, as long as it operates correctly.
Next step is to replace the Olive backup command with mine. Then I don't need the PC anymore.

Hi,

what's the news about installing some 2.5" equipment on an Olive ??

Mats