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My DIY Screen - Critique and Help

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
I'm going to be setting out into the world of 2.4:1 projection in 2009 and I've been reading up on building my own screen but I was hoping that someone could critique my plans before I get too far along and possibly make a few suggestions. This is mostly just throwing together ideas from other people's builds, but sometimes a little from here and a little from there might not give the expected end product so I thought I'd solicit opinions. In case anyone asks I'm going for ~110'' diagonal, so about 101''x42'' viewable. I was thinking about a 3'' velvet border, but I don't know if there's some kind of rule of thumb for how big a border should be given screen size.

First, I decided up front that I don't want to paint. Not that I don't think it's a good idea, I just don't want to get involved in that as it could be messy, time consuming, and prone to me screwing it up I considered the BOC but I think I've settled on Wilsonart DW that I can get from Lowes just around the corner.

For the frame I'm really liking 1'' square aluminum tubing with connectors from a place like EZtube. For me the time saved snapping an aluminum frame together vs. cutting and fastening wood is worth the extra money, and the weight savings should be a considerable help as well. Industrial velcro appears to be the method of choice for attaching laminate to an aluminum frame?

With the easy part out of the way, the black velvet border is where I'm currently hesitating. I didn't want to go with the black velvet tape, as I want something with a little thickness to it. My current plan is either 1x4's or 3/4'' MDF cut to size and wrapped in black velvet. I'm really not sure how to go about sticking that to the laminate, which is where I could really use some suggestions. I don't imagine that more velcro is the answer, so I was wondering about something like gorilla glue? Any ideas on either a better material for the border or a better way to attach it to the laminate would be appreciated.

Finally, all that should be left is the masking. Again I decided early that I didn't want to use curtains or any other "movable" mask that gets pulled on and off the screen. Here I think I may have had an original idea, but it seems so obvious that I'm almost sure it's been done before and I've just never seen a thread about it. I was thinking of making masking panels cut to size out of MDF and wrapping them in black velvet to match the border. From there small pockets could be hollowed out of the corners in the back of the panel and rare earth magnets glued or otherwise held in. Obviously magnets could then be glued to the back side of the laminate screen in the correct position and the masking panels should be able to be installed and removed easily whenever I want to switch aspect ratios. The laminate is so thin that I shouldn't even need large magnets, and one in each corner of the panel should probably hold the weight. Does that sound like a reasonable plan? And has it been done before?

Any ideas at all about this build plan would be greatly appreciated as I've just started pricing materials and I'm expecting to receive a few power tools for Christmas to facilitate the project. Thank you all for sharing your previous builds which formed the foundation and inspiration for giving this a try.
post #2 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

I was thinking about a 3'' velvet border, but I don't know if there's some kind of rule of thumb for how big a border should be given screen size.


With the easy part out of the way, the black velvet border is where I'm currently hesitating. I didn't want to go with the black velvet tape, as I want something with a little thickness to it. My current plan is either 1x4's or 3/4'' MDF cut to size and wrapped in black velvet. I'm really not sure how to go about sticking that to the laminate, which is where I could really use some suggestions. I don't imagine that more velcro is the answer, so I was wondering about something like gorilla glue? Any ideas on either a better material for the border or a better way to attach it to the laminate would be appreciated.

Finally, all that should be left is the masking. Again I decided early that I didn't want to use curtains or any other "movable" mask that gets pulled on and off the screen. Here I think I may have had an original idea, but it seems so obvious that I'm almost sure it's been done before and I've just never seen a thread about it. I was thinking of making masking panels cut to size out of MDF and wrapping them in black velvet to match the border. From there small pockets could be hollowed out of the corners in the back of the panel and rare earth magnets glued or otherwise held in. Obviously magnets could then be glued to the back side of the laminate screen in the correct position and the masking panels should be able to be installed and removed easily whenever I want to switch aspect ratios. The laminate is so thin that I shouldn't even need large magnets, and one in each corner of the panel should probably hold the weight. Does that sound like a reasonable plan? And has it been done before?

Any ideas at all about this build plan would be greatly appreciated as I've just started pricing materials and I'm expecting to receive a few power tools for Christmas to facilitate the project. Thank you all for sharing your previous builds which formed the foundation and inspiration for giving this a try.

Magius, welcome to DIY scope HT!
I'm at the border stage now with my DIY screen, what I've bought but not used yet is 1 x 6 PVC base board trim from home depot, I plan on ripping it in half via table saw for a real 3/4" x 2 3/4" stock for border. I'm wrapping mine in black velvet and will use ind strgth velcro. It will have 45 miter ends, I've toyed with the idea of taking a router along the inner edge for a bevel as well, I will try that on a short/scrap piece and see how wrapping that goes. I think a inner bevel edge will give that high level PQ look.

Masking, I'm doing manual as well, but can I ask why the heavy duty MDF panels?
Why not some foam core board from a craft store? Much lighter. Honestly that's my image, I've seen that stuff at work so I'm sure it's available.
I also have leftover rare earth magnets, so same as you they will be the attach method to the border (put the magnets in the border prior to velvet, all same side polarity).

Keep posting your thoughts/progress and good luck.
post #3 of 57
Thread Starter 
Foam for the masking panels sounds like a great idea! I guess I just hadn't thought of that. Like I said before I hadn't read of anyone making removable panels to mask with, it seemed like everyone used curtains or a motorized system, so my unimaginative mind just went to wood for the panels.

I also like the idea of using a baseboard for the border. I was going to cut an edge on some kind of wood before wrapping it, but I imagine you could even find a baseboard already in the right shape and not have to cut or use a router to make it look nice. I see you're planning on velcro, I just wasn't sure if a 1'' strip of velcro would sufficiently hold a 3'' border "flush" to the screen. I'm not afraid of the borders "falling off" or anything, but I would think there might be a visible gap on the top edges where the velcro wasn't touching, particularly if you figure gravity pulls the bottom down and pulls the top away from the surface, if that makes sense...?

Thank you for both of your suggestions and please let me know how your borders and panels turn out when you get done. I won't be starting my project until early next year but eventually I hope to post pictures of the build.
post #4 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

I'm really not sure how to go about sticking that to the laminate, which is where I could really use some suggestions. I don't imagine that more velcro is the answer, so I was wondering about something like gorilla glue? Any ideas on either a better material for the border or a better way to attach it to the laminate would be appreciated.

Velcro might actually prove to be the best solution, although you would want to staple it to the back of your wood border. If the border is bigger than your overall aluminum frame you might be able to use small angle brackets to attach it to the outside edge of the aluminum. I would avoid gorilla glue. It foams up and expands slightly as it cures and there is the possibility it could ooze out between the border and the screen. And once cured, it is impossible to remove.
post #5 of 57
Are you going to curve the screen to eliminate pincushion or not?

I built a 9.5' curved screen much simpler than the aluminum. Basically it is nothing more that two horizontal 1x4 screwed to the wall (one at top of screen, one at bottom). To those are attached a 1x3 screwed to the 1x4 in the center, then screwed to standoffs every 11" to produce the curve. Then 5 vertical 1x3 are attached to the curved 1x3 to help attach the laminate to to ensure flatness. The laminate is then attached from the front using industrial strength velcro.

I then velvet wrapped baseboard trim and sufficiently warped the top and bottom, then just velco attached them to the laminate sticking about 1/2" past the edge of the laminate. Looks great, didn't cost much--what more do you want?
post #6 of 57
Quote:


Finally, all that should be left is the masking. Again I decided early that I didn't want to use curtains or any other "movable" mask that gets pulled on and off the screen. Here I think I may have had an original idea, but it seems so obvious that I'm almost sure it's been done before and I've just never seen a thread about it. I was thinking of making masking panels cut to size out of MDF and wrapping them in black velvet to match the border. From there small pockets could be hollowed out of the corners in the back of the panel and rare earth magnets glued or otherwise held in. Obviously magnets could then be glued to the back side of the laminate screen in the correct position and the masking panels should be able to be installed and removed easily whenever I want to switch aspect ratios. The laminate is so thin that I shouldn't even need large magnets, and one in each corner of the panel should probably hold the weight. Does that sound like a reasonable plan? And has it been done before?

I know other people have used magnets in their masking systems with good results, so this approach is definetly doable. For my 120" wide scope screen, I made two 12" x 51" panel frames out of 1x2 poplar and wraped them in the same black velvet I used for my screen frame. They are held in place by friction where the masking panels meet at the top and bottom of the screen frame. When the masks are in place, they blend in seamlessly with the screen frame. It literally only takes a couple of seconds to put the mask panels in place.

I have used the foam board previously, but I prefer the poplar frame because it is far more rigid and has very straight edges, while still being relatively light weight. If you do a masking system like this though, you can't have too deep of a bevel on the frame boards, or else there won't be enough surface area for the friction fit.

This is all assuming you are doing a flat scope screen. If you are planning a curved screen, then things get more complicated as far as masking systems are concerned.
post #7 of 57
Thread Starter 
Person99, I was not planning on curving the screen for pincushion correction. Some day when I have a dedicated theater I think I'd like a curved AT screen, but for now I just want a fixed flat screen on the wall.

Phisch, let me get this straight. You took 1x2's and stuck a bunch of them together side by side to make a solid panel? So in the end it's 3/4'' deep and you have a little under 7 boards worth stuck together to make it 12'' wide? I'm wondering why you wouldn't have just cut a sheet of MDF to size, but maybe you had leftover poplar from frame construction, or maybe I just totally misunderstood what you're saying?

In any case I've been doing a lot of browsing for materials and pricing everything out and I think I have everything planned out now but the screen border. I really like the idea of some kind of pre-molded wood like a baseboard which a couple people have recommended. I'd like as much bevel as possible so friction fitting the masking panels seems out of the question...

Here's what I've been able to price out so far not including taxes or shipping where applicable. Let me know if something doesn't sound right:
1'' Aluminum Tubes & connectors - $??? (no quote yet)
Wilsonart DW Laminate 4x10 - $84.67
2''x15' Industrial Velcro (2 boxes) - $38.10
Screen border material (not sure yet) - $???
7 yards Black Velvet ($6.99/yd) - $49
3/16'' FoamCore 20x30'' ($3 ea.) - $18
3M Super 77 (for stacking FoamCore) - $10.50
Neodymium Magnets (30-50 pack) - $10
So my estimated total is at about $215 plus ~$150 for the aluminum frame and some amount for the screen border. Should be under $400 total. Is that normal or does it sound high? Compared to Carada it's less than half price, but then people have been talking about Focupix where a 110'' is ~$285 including shipping...?

Don't get me wrong I'm set on building my own as I think half the fun will be knowing I made it. Plus I can trust the materials thanks to the tests done at these forums. Something just got me thinking that my price was creeping up higher than I expected and should be <$300?

Thanks a lot!
post #8 of 57
Quote:


Phisch, let me get this straight. You took 1x2's and stuck a bunch of them together side by side to make a solid panel? So in the end it's 3/4'' deep and you have a little under 7 boards worth stuck together to make it 12'' wide? I'm wondering why you wouldn't have just cut a sheet of MDF to size, but maybe you had leftover poplar from frame construction, or maybe I just totally misunderstood what you're saying?

No, I used the 1x2 poplar to make a rectangular frame like a picture frame. I then stretched the black velvet across the frame and stapled the fabric to the back. Hence, the reason it is lightwieght, yet very sturdy.

Quote:


Person99, I was not planning on curving the screen for pincushion correction. Some day when I have a dedicated theater I think I'd like a curved AT screen, but for now I just want a fixed flat screen on the wall.

You didn't state in your original post what your throw is, but if it is longer than 2.0 then the pincushion should be very slight and the flat screen should work fine.
post #9 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thank you for clearing up what you did with the poplar. You did say panel "frames" the first time around, I guess I just didn't catch that. That does sound like a good idea, but I'm going to start with the Foamcore (wrapped in black velvet of course) and see how that works out.

Regarding throw distance I'm still a bit new to calculating throw and zoom. Using the Projector Calculator Pro it says that with a Panny AE3000 and 1.2 gain plugged in for the WA DW I can throw an ample brightness 110'' 2.4:1 screen anywhere from 11'5'' to 22'8''. That screen would be 101'' wide so to get a throw ratio of 2 or more I'd want to be at least 16'10'' back? I haven't quite figured out how far back I'll be throwing from, but I guess I'll have to see how bad the pincushion is, and if I can't zoom out to mask it I'll have to move the projector back. I do hope it doesn't wind up too bad, because a curved screen is not an option this time around. Thanks.
post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

You didn't state in your original post what your throw is, but if it is longer than 2.0 then the pincushion should be very slight and the flat screen should work fine.

At just over 2.0 throw, the pincushion is just over 1/4". I sit at 2.84 screen heights and I can easily see 1/4" of pincushion at that distance (because it either goes onto the border, or you have a straight edge as reference.

At a 2.0 throw, you need to curve the screen to an almost 3" depth. The other nice thing about that is that it makes the image brighter.

But, if you are curious about my set up I'm a bit under that TR.
post #11 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

Using the Projector Calculator Pro it says that with a Panny AE3000 and 1.2 gain plugged in for the WA DW I can throw an ample brightness 110'' 2.4:1 screen anywhere from 11'5'' to 22'8''.

First thing to know, the Projector Calculator Pro image brightness is WAAAAAAY off. WAAAAY, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off.

How far off it is is completely based upon how big of a liar the PJ manufacturer is. The calculator uses the manufacturers numbers for lumens. Correctly calibrated you will get far less lumens.

For instance, Calculator pro says I should get 19 ftL from my PJ. I really get 14 ftL.

You will get ample brightness at 110" wide with that PJ, just not the brightness it claims.

The best thing to do is find a review of your PJ where then measured the calibrated ANSI lumens, then calculate your image brightness from that. If you are zooming, don't forget to only use the active image percentage, or to calculate for the "real" 16:9 image size.
post #12 of 57
Thread Starter 
Person99 thank you for the detailed information, it was much appreciated. I did know about the brightness on the calculator being Mfg. specs, but I guess I was just citing it for the throw ranges it gave me as a starting point. You did raise my interest with this particular statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by person99 View Post

At just over 2.0 throw, the pincushion is just over 1/4".

As I said before I'm new to the calculations of front projection, but is there a formula to calculate amount of pincushion distortion based on throw ratio? Then based on that it seems you calculated you would need a 3'' curve depth to correct a 1/4'' pincushion... is there a formula for that too? That would be great information for when I do try a curved screen, even if it's a few years down the road. I haven't been reading as many curved screen threads as I have flat screen threads, so I apologize if that stuff is "common knowledge" around here .

One last thing, I think I'll be sitting a little over 3 screen heights from the picture, and the intent was to make the pincushion go into the border if necessary depending on how bad it was. I was hoping that black velvet wouldn't allow that little trick to be seen. Are you saying that 1/4'' or so of projected image on your border is noticeable and/or distracting while watching a movie? Thanks again!
post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

P

As I said before I'm new to the calculations of front projection, but is there a formula to calculate amount of pincushion distortion based on throw ratio? Then based on that it seems you calculated you would need a 3'' curve depth to correct a 1/4'' pincushion... is there a formula for that too? That would be great information for when I do try a curved screen, even if it's a few years down the road. I haven't been reading as many curved screen threads as I have flat screen threads, so I apologize if that stuff is "common knowledge" around here .

Do a search on AussieBob and his threads, he PM'd me an excel sheet that did the calc for pincushion based on many parameters.

I'm not the "owner" of that, so I won't PM you it.
post #14 of 57
Yes AussieBob's spreadsheet is definately the easiest (much easier than calculating yourself!). We all owe Bob a beer for that one!
post #15 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post


As I said before I'm new to the calculations of front projection, but is there a formula to calculate amount of pincushion distortion based on throw ratio?

It also needs to take into account image size. I was throwing out a number for a "typical" size screen like mine (scope width of 9.5 feet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

One last thing, I think I'll be sitting a little over 3 screen heights from the picture, and the intent was to make the pincushion go into the border if necessary depending on how bad it was. I was hoping that black velvet wouldn't allow that little trick to be seen. Are you saying that 1/4'' or so of projected image on your border is noticeable and/or distracting while watching a movie? Thanks again!

Nothing can completely absorb the light. But, if your border is shaped right and it is really only about 1/4" it is pretty hard to notice.
post #16 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thanks again Person99, and mtbdudex too for the tip on the spreadsheet. I did go searching some old threads and then PMd AussieBob to see if he'll shoot me a copy.

On the bright side I'm just about done with the build planning and cost estimating. After a trip to Lowes this afternoon I think I've settled on MDF base molding for the screen frame. I found one that is 3.25'' wide and about a half inch thick with a nice sloping bezel down to nearly nothing. At just under $1 a foot I can't imagine anything else being worthwhile, although I do still need about 27 feet of the stuff... One remaining question that is bothering me is that my screen is about 9'' wide so I'll have to buy either a 10' or 12' board (whatever they carry). I probably can't even get the 9' cutoff home in one piece, so I guess I have to cut it? Is that recommended? I guess I could just reattach the two pieces with wood glue and/or some hardware before wrapping with the velvet so that at least from the outside there's no seam?

I also got a quote this afternoon from my local 8020 QuickFrame distributor. $88 and change +tax and shipping. I couldn't get them to completely peg the shipping but they're approximating $12-17. I just want to be sure I don't get burned like the poor guy in another thread who got a $200 shipping bill a couple weeks after delivery. They can anodize the aluminum black which I'd prefer but that's an additional charge of ~$130!! I guess I'll be buying some spray paint if I decide I have to have black aluminum. Just seems odd when other companies charge the same price for "clear" vs. black anodized aluminum... Guess I need another quote or two before a final decision.

Speaking of spray paint, that reminds me of one other question I had that hopefully someone more experienced can answer. Both the FoamCore board and the MDF base molding that I plan to cover in black velvet are white. Should I be concerned about that? Should I paint them black before wrapping them in the velvet? I've never done anything with fabric before so I can't visualize how "thick" the velvet fabric will be, or whether it could be possible for the white underneath it to detract from its effect.

Thanks a lot for all of the feedback and tips so far! I can't wait to get started on this, but unfortunately I have to wait until after the holidays...
post #17 of 57
If possible I'd say try and use the piece whole, I can only see problems with trying to cut it at a 45 and re-atttaching it. Is the problem getting it in the car (stick out the windows with red rag) or basement access?

I did NOT paint my white board black, but maybe my velvet was overkill, it was JoAnns "furniture grade velvet" at 50% still $17/yard, I got 3.75 yards so $60's for just that. If your velvet is thinner might be some see thru, I'm not sure, try a 1" or 2" swatch, wrap it and look if you can see thru or not before painting.

Good luck on your build, it is exciting, post picts.
post #18 of 57
Thread Starter 
I do want to try to use the trim pieces whole. Cutting was making me nervous so I guess I'll have to see whether either of our hatchbacks can handle it. Like you said out the window with a flag might have to suffice. Fortunately Lowes is literally about a mile from my house so if I can make it fit I won't have far to go.

As far as the fabric goes I was trying to go as cheap as possible, and it seemed the $7/yd stuff at Sysfabrics has been recommended in various threads. As you said I'll probably just have to see what it looks like after I buy it and then decide whether paint is required. I wouldn't think so but I figured better to ask first.

When I do get around to building this I will definitely take some pictures. I wish I could get started sooner but I have to wait until after New Years. I'm slammed at work, out of town for the holiday break and getting married between Christmas and New Years On the bright side when I come back I expect to have mucho dinero in the way of Lowes gift cards and some shiny new power tools from my parents. My fiance even asked her dad for Lowes cards for Christmas so that she can pitch in towards the screen
post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

and getting married between Christmas and New Years On the bright side when I come back I expect to have mucho dinero in the way of Lowes gift cards and some shiny new power tools from my parents. My fiance even asked her dad for Lowes cards for Christmas so that she can pitch in towards the screen

How'd that childhood rhyme go??
(and I have NOT said this in 35-40 years)

First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes kids in the baby carriage

Congratulations!
(and I'm working in the basement HT right now while my 3 young ones sleep, almost the only time for my projects to get completed)
post #20 of 57
Thread Starter 
Well it's been quiet in here but I thought I'd post an update regarding quotes on aluminum and connectors for the framing. I've gotten 4 different quotes and I thought people might find the information useful for their own projects.

I won't post part numbers as they would of course be different for each company, but my frame needs the following basic parts:
(6) 34.667'' length 1'' aluminum square tubes (3 ea. top and bottom "width" of screen)
(4) 47'' length 1'' aluminum square tubes (2 ea. either side "height" of screen, 2 ea. vertical supports)
(4) 2-way corner connectors
(4) 3-way 'T' connectors
(10) custom cuts for aluminum tubes

First, the quote I got from my local 8020.net distributor. They offered $88.28 for clear anodized tubes, plus an estimated $12-17 shipping and 6% sales tax. Black anodized tubes would cost $138.95 more than clear.
Total for clear: ~$110.58, Total for black: ~$252.57

Second, the other commonly referenced option around here, EZtube.com. They did not quote me a price on clear tubes but offered $168.50 in black anodized, plus $24.65 shipping and no tax.
Total for clear: N/A, Total for black: $193.15

Third, a company I found searching Google, Esto Connectors. They offered $94 for clear anodized tubes, plus an estimated $25-30 shipping and no sales tax. Black anodized tubes were only $13 more ($107), not a bad deal?
Total for clear: ~$124, Total for black: ~$137

Finally, another company I found searching Google, Brunner Enterprises. They quoted me $107.42 for clear tubes and $136.22 for black. Shipping is $19.59 in either case and again, no tax.
Total for clear: $127.01, Total for black: $155.81

For the most part the products seem very similar. The measurements of wall thickness and outer diameter of the tubes tend to vary by a few thousandths of an inch, but the idea should be the same. Brunner's quote did make me a little nervous as they clearly state "Note: These connectors and tubing are removable and there will be play at the joints." I had been led by other posters to believe these are very snug fitting and that note had me a tad nervous.

In any case, the cheapest option appears to be the 8020.net clear tubing with a $3 can of black spray paint, or if I'm feeling really lazy Esto can sell me black tubing for ~$25 extra. I haven't made a final decision yet, and probably wont order anything until after the holidays, but again I thought this information might be useful to other people considering aluminum frame builds. Let me know if anyone has any comments, and I hope I haven't done any disservice by posting pricing information, as everything is strictly "MSRP" as quoted and we're only talking aluminum tubes here, not discounts on projectors

Note: Edited to correct Esto Connectors pricing and shipping information.
post #21 of 57
Sounds like you are on you way.

When painting the alum tubing go for hi-temp engine paint (low gloss), I've found that to be much more durable than std paint, just under $6/can at Murrays/other auto stores.

I've also used that to paint can light's trim from white to black.
(got the white with the contractors pack at HD, cheaper to paint black than buy more trim in black molded color)

Just for reference, I used the Bosch tubing, and have online quotes for 20mmx20mm and 30mm x 30mm. (these are public figures directly from their website)
Your prices seem comparable. The Bosch stuff is used extensively in industry for fixtures/jigs, it's very rigid for it's size, and easy to attach stuff to with it's channels/grooves.


post #22 of 57
Magius & Mike,

Here is another supplier of aluminum tubing for screen frames;

Outwater: http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008...age_number=149


John
post #23 of 57
Thread Starter 
mtbdudex I've read through your thread and I did look up the aluminum that you were using, specifically the 20x20 profile. To be honest, I'm not very mechanically inclined (I'm a computer/electronics person ) and it was boggling my mind what to do with those profiles and what kind of connectors you need to fasten them. It just didn't look as simple as:
1: Insert connector into end of tube
2: Bang with mallet
3: Rinse & Repeat (Wow I even discovered the missing step 3!)
4: Profit!!!

Then beyond that I was concerned about attaching velcro to those profiles because of the channel in the middle. Effectively the adhesive on the velcro tape would have 1/3 less area to adhere to.

Now maybe a profile like the 20x20 2SA would be interesting. I didn't see those in my first glance but I can imagine the flat sides pointing away from the screenwall and "out" from screens center, with the channel sides pointing into the wall and "in". That would give me a flat surface to attach velcro to, and a flat surface around the perimeter as seen from the outside (cleaner look IMHO), but leave the channel cut sides inside where they might be used as french cleats or for other mounting methods. Sounds like it would work well, but the whole "how do I connect these together" thing was still bugging me. I've figured it out by looking at their site that the conenctors are really screw-in brackets of sorts, so it's definitely different than the method used on tubes... Are there advantages to this type of profile and connectors? It looks more secure? Just not sure if it's worth the extra labor and expense.

HDGTX,
Thanks for the tip on one more aluminum source. I'll request a quote from them this morning and see how they compare. They have prices on their website but I always request a quote anyway to make sure things like the cost of custom cutting, etc. get accounted for.
post #24 of 57
Magius,

In Mike's thread several folks used the T-slots to secure fabrics to their T-slot frames;

"cubesys" (Itai) used wooden dowels press fitted in to the tracks to hold his AT fabric (posts 12, 13, 16 & 20).

"Nasty N8" used rubber hose (posts; 24 & 31).

"GetGray" used Bosch channel covers to secure his BOC fabric.

Bosch also sells the T-slot tubing with some of the faces smooth as well, you could then velcro your surface
to one of those, while using the T-slot sides for fastening or hanging. Think the smooth side pieces are more expensive.

John
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGTX View Post

Magius,

In Mike's thread several folks used the T-slots to secure fabrics to their T-slot frames;

"cubesys" (Itai) used wooden dowels press fitted in to the tracks to hold his AT fabric (posts 12, 13, 16 & 20).

"Nasty N8" used rubber hose (posts; 24 & 31).

"GetGray" used Bosch channel covers to secure his BOC fabric.

Bosch also sells the T-slot tubing with some of the faces smooth as well, you could then velcro your surface
to one of those, while using the T-slot sides for fastening or hanging. Think the smooth side pieces are more expensive.

John

Magius;
Just giving you different options, I'm sure as others have found the tubing you plan on using would work.

As John pointed out a couple of easy ways to attach the screen, plus if you are really set on velcro then you can get the profile with one side smooth.

The corner braces really contributed to the out-plane stiffness of the frame, and they went together so easy. I'm not so sure how the other sq tubing get's it's out-plane stiffness.

Sub assemble the corner gussets:


drill holes in the top and bottom member for Allen wrench tightening of end screws in the 5 vertical members.


Attach corner gussets, once or twice I was not sure it locked correctly, so I used a finish nail to "hold" it while initially tightening it, that worked and ensured 100% correct alignment:



Anyway, what's important is you feel comfortable/confident in your project.
The Bosch tubing also worked for me because I was able to mount the wood blocks to it and the extruded x-section gave a perfect center to drill a hole and shoot screws consistently @ exact center of tub, no drill "walking" on squirrely alum surf (or pre-hit with a center punch).

Good luck, I'll follow your project soon to be fellow 2.35:1 'er!
post #26 of 57
Thread Starter 
HDGTX,
The methods you're referencing do make a lot of sense, of course since I'm going with a laminate screen rather than fabric it's a whole different ballgame. I did mention the T-slot profiles with the flat sides (20x20 2SA in mtbdudex's picture) as a possibility, but thanks for pointing out how the T-channel can be innovatively used for fabric screens. I may even file that away for a future AT screen

mtbdudex,
Thanks again for the information and most of all the pictures. I can see now more clearly how I would put together a T-slot frame, but honestly with words like "drill" and "screw" I'm leaning back towards "bang with mallet" I think you nailed it right on that the standard tubing won't have the out of plane stiffness that the corner braces would provide, but I don't think the extra cost and effort is necessary for my little project. Definitely glad I could learn a bit from you though, and again I think I'll file the T-slot option away for a future AT curved screen. The extra stiffness should help resist the pull of curved wood.

Getting back to business here, I did want to correct one minor error in a previous post. I overlooked a quote that I had from Esto Connectors for clear anodized tubes which was $94, and this morning I got them to estimate shipping for me at $25-30. I'll go back and edit this info a couple posts back to correct the comparison. In the end I think I've decided on the Esto product for ~$135 shipped. Their black tubes are only $25 more than the cheapest quote I received for clear tubing (8020.net), and they'll save me the time and trouble of spray painting.
post #27 of 57
Thread Starter 
One final post while I'm here, a mock-up layout for my black velvet cutting.

I drew a big black rectangle to scale (in Visio) to represent 4 yards of the plush black velvet from Sy Fabrics which they say is at least 44'' wide. I then laid out my border framing and masking panels in such a way that I should conservatively have plenty to wrap around and staple. (ie: 7'' strips to wrap the 3.25'' boards, etc.)

It looks like everything is going to fit with plenty of leftover material for wrapping the inside of my DIY prism lens enclosure! The only thing I'm wondering about is whether I should make sure there is enough material for the masking panels to "completely" wrap them, like a pillow case or a Christmas present. It won't matter when they're on the screen, but it might look nicer when they're laying off to the side if there isn't a rough white back side and ruffle-y stapled fabric..? Eh, that's probably just overcomplicating things.

I'm really getting anxious to start ordering parts and building this thing. Three more days until I'll have plenty of Lowes cards and power tools
LL
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

One final post while I'm here, a mock-up layout for my black velvet cutting.

I drew a big black rectangle to scale (in Visio) to represent 4 yards of the plush black velvet from Sy Fabrics which they say is at least 44'' wide. I then laid out my border framing and masking panels in such a way that I should conservatively have plenty to wrap around and staple. (ie: 7'' strips to wrap the 3.25'' boards, etc.)

Magius;
What I learned from doing mine and read in the MississippiMan's threads is try to not have too much excess overlap for the border, or you end up cutting the excess on the backside. My 1st one I was conservative and after stapling one side and starting the wrap I cut it so just 1" overlap. Just lesson learned from me. Less time cutting (actually ripping the velvet per MM), more time stapling and finishing.
Good luck and I'm sure you'll be using those gift cards on the 26th.
post #29 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thanks mtbdudex for the velvet tip, and having read MM's posts myself I agree 100%. I was only allocating the material conservatively for planning purposes to make sure I'd have enough, but when actually cutting I'll be going for "less is more".

For the record, today officially starts my build in the sense that the laminate has been ordered. No way I'm going to be Loganed! $88 + 6% tax from Lowes for a total of $93.28, and expected delivery on 01/07/09. I'm going to pick it up and measure it before placing the aluminum order, so that I'm 100% sure whether it's really 48'' or 49'' wide. So far everyone who has bought it claims 49'', but the last thing I want is to get the gimp piece that is 1'' too short for my frame.

I also ordered the industrial velcro to attach the laminate to the aluminum, and came across these interesting "non-stick" scissors for cutting velcro and other sticky things: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance. I have no idea if they're useful or a complete crock, but I saw some decent reviews online... I've cut regular (non-industrial) velcro tape with regular scissors before and given the fact that I'll soon have 15' of industrial tape to cut through I figured I'd give these a shot. I've wasted $15 on worse things, and I'll let you all know how it turns out.

One final thing that I'm still having trouble deciding is how to attach the MDF base molding (ie: the screen trim) to the laminate. I'm still not sold on the idea of more velcro as it's relatively expensive and doesn't get a perfectly "flush" mating. I had considered embedding magnets in the molding instead, similar to my approach for holding the masking panels in place. I was thinking 1/4'' diameter magnets (because that's the largest drill bit I have ) by either 1/4'' or 1/8'' thick. Those would be small enough to embed in the 9/16'' (or was it 7/16''?) trim but I would need a lot of them to get enough pull to keep it in place. I would also need to add some steel or more magnets on the other side of the laminate for them to pull against. 1/8'' thickness magnets are $0.10 ea. and 1/4'' are $0.20 ea or $0.13 ea if I buy 150+. Even if I bought 150 of the beefier 1/4'' ones for $19.50 that's no more expensive than a box of velcro, and just think of all the fun stuff I could do with the leftovers!

The most obvious solution to this whole thing is just to take my new staple gun to the back side of the laminate and staple it into the MDF trim. That could be done before or after the velcro is applied to the back side of the laminate to attach it to the aluminum frame. Saves me from buying extra velcro or magnets, and the only loss is I can't easily remove the trim. Maybe this simple solution is really the best solution?

One last side note: between my fiance and I we raked in $455 in Lowes gift cards for Christmas! That ought to cover both this screen build and my future prism lens enclosure, so with tomorrow being "the big day" I'm really hoping we don't get any more

Hope everyone had a great Christmas and I'll be back to start posting pictures in the New Year!
post #30 of 57
I think if you put in 150 magnets in your screen/border you'd create such a magnetic field that the space-time continuum in your HT would be disrupted and upon turning on your PJ (with it's dark matter projection field) you'd create the worlds first worm hole device........

I think that sci-fi movie has already been made?

How about this as alternative for mounting your border, create a sandwich.
Attach the border via screw from backside, basically what I did.
Should work, and you could even make two of the top backside pine pieces into french cleats for hanging yoru screen at same time.
You'd need some hand clamps to hold the assy in place while you screw it.
(quick sketch via excel and drawing tools there)
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