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Prince Caspian comparison *PIX* - Page 3

post #61 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

There is no real reason a DVD shouldn't look at least as good as a 480p downscale of a blu-ray. But personally I hate DVD so the worse they bungle them, the better, master them from a VHS tape for all I care

Cram 2h30 minutes with extras and 3 language on a DVD9 and you'll end up softening everything otherwise it will just break in Macroblock. They do that a lot of DVD to fit the maximum on the disc. That's why most of the time, even at 480p , bluray look better..
post #62 of 138
[dons conspiracy hat] Is it possible this could be an anti-piracy response? If dvd is "wide-open" for copying, maybe they reason to simply allow only inferior renditions of the movie through that format, from now on? If you want the premo presentation of the movie, you got to buy into br (where presumably, piracy is not yet an everyman-level proposition)? Just thinking out loud on this... Sounds crazy, but would you put it past them?
post #63 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

There is no real reason a DVD shouldn't look at least as good as a 480p downscale of a blu-ray. But personally I hate DVD so the worse they bungle them, the better, master them from a VHS tape for all I care

In a perverse sense, it could be another feather in the cap for sd users to start buying into br players and content, even while lacking the hdtv! If dvd cannot even be counted on to fulfill the potential of genuine sd, might as well go with br downscaled to sd, eh?
post #64 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

There is no real reason a DVD shouldn't look at least as good as a 480p downscale of a blu-ray. But personally I hate DVD so the worse they bungle them, the better, master them from a VHS tape for all I care

This is what I am questioning so help me understand.

480p downscale of a BD is comparable to or should look like a 480p downscale derived from the original source/transfer?
post #65 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

In a perverse sense, it could be another feather in the cap for sd users to start buying into br players and content, even while lacking the hdtv! If dvd cannot even be counted on to fulfill the potential of genuine sd, might as well go with br downscaled to sd, eh?

Are you saying bring back VHS, cassette, and 8 tracks?
post #66 of 138
If anything, a 480p downscale of some original source/master (presumably superior to the 1080p br release) could be better than a 480p downscale of the br release. Personally, I would expect the differences to be extremely minor, if at all perceptible. It may not look identical, but I would not expect either one to stand out with more detail.
post #67 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Are you saying bring back VHS, cassette, and 8 tracks?

Quite the opposite, actually. If the older formats are going to be gimped as a matter of policy, might as well just seek the newer, "hi-def" format and downscale, as is appropriate to your particular equipment. That way you ensure your equipment is topped-off with as much performance as it technically can accomodate, in the first place.
post #68 of 138
Thread Starter 
post #69 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

That [the stairs] almost defies belief! What happens if you just downscale the br image to 480p? Do the stairs disappear?

The downrezzing is just one step in the DVD authoring process. There is also any post-processing applied such as softening or more likely the amount of bits left for the MPEG compression for the disappearing stairs. Regardless, the disappearing stairs is quite revealing.
post #70 of 138
Has DVD really been that bad all along, or is this just a particularly bad one? Is it possible that DVD quality is being downgraded to help push the new format?
post #71 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Has DVD really been that bad all along, or is this just a particularly bad one? Is it possible that DVD quality is being downgraded to help push the new format?

I've seen really soft DVDs for years before BD came around, even though I imagine they came from a higher res master. I'm not sure why that is
post #72 of 138
Those last two shots, the DVD and BD are interesting. Look at her left hand. ALthough it is an intentionally out of focus part of the picture, it looks exactly the same on DVD as it does on BD. Funny, out of focus is out of focus no matter the resolution.
post #73 of 138
It's the nature of defocused imagery- it is inherently a low(er) frequency phenomenon. Hence, it would not necessarily be affected by a downscale. If there is film grain or noise in that region, that would be affected, however.
post #74 of 138
Thread Starter 
To think I spent $20 on the DVD and what's worse I did not get to use the $10 coupon for the Blu-ray copy.
post #75 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

You can see the stairs if you downsample it in photoshop. I guess they were using some really soft algorithm, or intentionally blurred it...

Normally there is a certain amount of filtering applied to DVD releases, especially in the vertical domain to prevent aliasing on interlaced displays, therefore the stairs are not visible, some of it also happens with Blu-Rays, see Baraka. Other than that I found most recent DVD's, even those from the comparison pix, pretty good with regard to detail - they fall short at times with compression and many of them also suffer from hideous sharpening artefacts (TDK anyone ?). As if sharpening would make the DVD look better
post #76 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

To think I spent $20 on the DVD and what's worse I did not get to use the $10 coupon for the Blu-ray copy.

THAT is painful !
I'd say whoever wants a comparison to the DVD should buy it himself and send it to you
post #77 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

That [the stairs] almost defies belief! Does it really make sense that the dvd would not be able to render the stairs, altogether? Granted, not as sharply as in hd rez, but gone altogether? What happens if you just downscale the br image to 480p? Do the stairs disappear?


The "stairs" does not exist when watching the DVD. Imagine that!

When we get a reference transfer the PQ discrepancy is unbelievable. I cant really blame some people thinking DVD has been "dumbed down" deliberately. It just look that way.
post #78 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Those last two shots, the DVD and BD are interesting. Look at her left hand. ALthough it is an intentionally out of focus part of the picture, it looks exactly the same on DVD as it does on BD. Funny, out of focus is out of focus no matter the resolution.


Yes, but the BD is a "sharper" out of focus!
post #79 of 138
Thread Starter 
post #80 of 138
Oh my. The last screencaps (post #79 in this thread) look awful on DVD
post #81 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Oh my. The last screencaps (post #79 in this thread) look awful on DVD

Nah. THe BD just looks better.
post #82 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Nah. THe BD just looks better.

Yep, very good Blu-Rays really make the DVD counterpart look like crap, no matter how good it might look compared to other DVDs.
post #83 of 138
This is probably more relevant for the TDK thread, but the last DVD shot has pretty clear "ringing" or "haloing" that I assume is not EE.
post #84 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick99 View Post

This is probably more relevant for the TDK thread, but the last DVD shot has pretty clear "ringing" or "haloing" that I assume is not EE.

Hard to say how much of it is on the unscaled DVD. Most if the time upscaling does something to existing halos, same goes for downscaling.

This is not meant as a complaint about the screencaps by Xylon, as I have dabbled myself with the scaling options in photoshop and could not find any algorythm that scaled to my satisfaction or that was comparable in quality to my Lumagen scaler.
post #85 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick99 View Post

This is probably more relevant for the TDK thread, but the last DVD shot has pretty clear "ringing" or "haloing" that I assume is not EE.

Nah, I think that's just a compression artifact. You get something similar when you over-compress a JPEG.

This does look like a pretty half-assed DVD, though. I wonder if the studios are starting to put more effort into the Blu-ray releases, and only putting in a half-hearted attempt at the DVD? Wouldn't surprise me, especially since most of what we're complaining about would be nearly invisible on a standard-def TV.
post #86 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Nah, I think that's just a compression artifact. You get something similar when you over-compress a JPEG.

This does look like a pretty half-assed DVD, though. I wonder if the studios are starting to put more effort into the Blu-ray releases, and only putting in a half-hearted attempt at the DVD? Wouldn't surprise me, especially since most of what we're complaining about would be nearly invisible on a standard-def TV.

I agree that it looks like a compression artifact, and that this sort of thing is pretty common with DVDs. The reason for my reference to the TDK thread is that there has been discussion there of the idea that "ringing" or "haloing" can be created by various things.
post #87 of 138
Thread Starter 
post #88 of 138
Thread Starter 
post #89 of 138
Aww... impressive cgi hair detail. Compare it to the filtered hair on the polar bears in The Golden Compass.
post #90 of 138
not a bad DVD imho.. but studios really don't seem to give a flying f*ck about quality most of the time, some DVDs are just shocking (with regards to the 'downrezzing' discussion - you can always make a much better version yourself by downsampling a HD copy)

9GB allows you 2 hours of 10mb/s content.. if studios squeezed the most out of the DVD format i'd feel a lot better about shelling out for a movie.
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