Sony STRDG1200 vs STRDG2100 vs STRDA2400es (No Sony bashing needed)

I'd buy the very best I could afford. For the list you've given, I'd pick ES over non-ES if for no other reason than the 5 year (vs 2 year) warranty and what that implies in terms of part selection/build quality. Bottom line for your list: STR-DA3400ES

I have to agree with the ES. I am in the market for a new one as my current ES receive finally bit it (and I did have it repaired once while under the 5 year warranty). It is now a good 10 years old, so time to upgrade!

I was almost sold on the 2100. The local elec store said it was discontinued and they have the floor model to sell me for $525. In the end, it wasn't a good enough deal since it was missing the remote. I too am a Sony guy for no other reason than I am a Sony guy.

Right now though, I am leaning towards the Denon as I like the idea of the Ethernet and Internet Radio. It may satisfy my geekdome better. However, the Sony ES will definately pair better with my Sony 52" bravia and it will be nice not to have to deal with a new interface.

Jay Fro

FYI - I saw in more than a few places - authorized dealers, (that I can't think of off the top of my head, JR maybe?) that Sony repriced last years model, the 4300ES for just about $600-$700 and I have been sorely tempted by this offer.

Other than having only 3 HDMI ports (instead of 4 on most models this year), I can't think of too many negatives compared with the other models you listed. Keep in mind none of these models have s-video connectors anymore if you want or need them. I think last years 5300ES was the last receiver they made with these connections (not positive.)

Was there any real upgrade from last years ES models other than adding the lossless codecs to the 3300ES? It's not like the Denons with the new dynamic EQ and volume which seem to be big features for this year.

I too would stongly consider the ES line but like you mentioned the 1200 (upgrade from last year's 1100) and the 2100 (last year's late model, probably the precursor to the 2400ES) were choices I looked at as well.

My .5 cents (deflation is a bear)

I say go for the DA3400ES if you got the $$$. If you're more on a budget, the DG2100 has all the bells and whistles, except only 3 HDMI inputs, if you can find one brand new.

I've got a DG1100 and kinda wish I would've bought the DG2100 for the lossless audio decoders...except I got the killer Costco deal on it so I really can't complain.

Amen to that, Brother!

I purchased the 2400ES back in November and love it. It stays on more than 10 hours a day. I originally did NOT use any of the analog inputs or outputs and everything is HDMI components but I did hook up my older Sony DVD player so the connected equipment is as follows:
TV: Sony KDS60A3000 (all video equipment inputs to receiver and the only output is HDMI going to TV)
Blu-ray: Sony BDP-S550 via HDMI
5.1 surround
AM/FM/Sirius antennas
HD DirecTV via HDMI
Sony older DVD player via component video and coax audio in

Now, for everyone on the fence about buying this ES model vs. say another retail sony unit or some other brand. I would tell you that you can find this online for around $550 from an authorized dealer but for ME I bought this ES unit for it's 5 year warranty as compared to the retail models 1 year warranty. Also, if you really compare different brands of receivers they pretty much use the same processors on the inside now. upscaling chips from Faroudja, processors for Dolby TruHD and DTS Master, XM/Sirius processors, etc all make the internals about the same. It will come down to price, cosmetics, and user preference. However, look at the warranty. I bet you can get a 5 year warranty for the same price as a similar unit with a 1 year warranty (sony 1200 vs. sony 2400ES for an example)

Let me point out only a few minor flaws with this unit and for some of you, including me, it's not that big of a deal.
1) NO HD radio tuner or input. Since I have Sirius it didn't matter
2) NO volume naturalizer. When switching from Dolby TV stations to Analog stations the volume will really change. In a house with other people around this can be a problem. I believe the Onkyo's have this feature. I think this is an Audyssey chip that does this. Most TV's have this standard so that changing stations keeps the volume level pretty level between channels. but, with a receiver you are getting the sound just as the station is outputting it. I have no experience with the Audyssey so it might not be very good in performance, or it might work great. My guess is that Sony and others leave this out so that you are not changing the decoding and you are listening to what the Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master was designed to sound like.
3) this one is more of a personal preference but it deals with the main display. If you look at the Onkyo's they have really large displays. You might like the large display but to me they are annoying. However, on the Sony's you really do NOT know what codec you are receiving (such as TrueHD, etc) unless you get about 6 inches in front of the unit. the lettering is very small but again, it is personal preference. Once you have everything configured properly you wont even have to do this. With the Onkyo's you will be noticing the large display letters too much.
4) volume control via remote goes from slow to fast very quick. you can go from 50 to 20 in just a couple of seconds on the controller which can make it real loud too quick. if there were ONE thing i would have sony change it is this. more annoying than anything else. it jumps too quickly too fast.
5) there is NO ethernet at all. you have to bump up to the more expensive 6400 I believe before you get this. That would allow you to use the receiver to stream audio through the network. but at the price of this 2400ES most other similar brands dont offer it either.
6) for XM or Sirius fans the way you save stations to memory and have it displayed is different between the GUI and using the remote to change channels. The receivers GUI allows you to save each station but instead of saving it by station number (which everyone remembers) the Sony designers save the stations by station name (pretty stupid) in the GUI. so, if you are in the GUI changing stations you have no idea what station is which unless you know by heart what the Sirius or XM names are. However, if you are NOT using the GUI and you are simply pointing the remote and you use the UP/DOWN channel preset button the front panel of the receiver changes channel by it's channel number. it only changes channel by preset memory. this is how it SHOULD be done in the GUI. My guess Sony just messed this up and hopefully they will switch it with later releases. you CAN change channels by entering in a direct station number as there is a button just above the up/down channel button that says "D.Tuning". pressing this allows you to enter direct numbers using the remote. Again, like the ones above it is just personal preference if you will even notice these differences between the way you change channels in the GUI vs. the front panel using the remote.

Now, on to the good stuff.

If you are looking at multi-room options you need to consider there are actually TWO types of multi-room options. This is very critical to know and plan for. 1 type can be taken care of at a fraction of the price of higher end units. The 2 types are multi-room video and multi-room independent audio.

Example. If you want to watch the same movie in another room dont ever spend $1,000 more for a higher end unit. You can buy HDMI extenders for about $150 each and run Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable.
Octava Inc
octavainc dot com
you will probably get BETTER video clarity this method. If you notice the Sony's they output their 2nd rooms via analog or component cable and not even digital via HDMI so why bother with the expense. you have to get up to the 5400 or 6400 series to get digital outs. with HDMI extenders you do it with digital signal for far cheaper. The other multi room is whether you want to be able to listen to another audio source in a 2nd room while using the receiver for video in the main area. this is where the higher end units come in handy but not for $1000 more. just buy another lower end audio receiver or something in those rooms.

Usability and performance:
I have everything sony in my system EXCEPT the DirecTV but with the Bravia Link I can actually control most of my system with the DirecTV remote. Once configured the volume on the DirecTV remote controls the TV which in turn controls the amp's volume. I rarely ever use the included 2 remotes that come with this receiver. *** this is a HUGE advantage of Sony's over say Yamaha, or Onkyo, or other brands. those companies dont make TV's, and Bluray players so having the universal remote link like with Sony's Bravia Link really simplifies the every day use of these components.

for those of you who have lower end or older receivers these new generation receivers/processors have the GUI screen which really helps out. My sony TV has a much faster and cleaner interface but this receiver's GUI is still pretty good. I never go the receiver to change anything and i do it all through the GUI.

at first, all inputs into the unit were via HDMI from my DirecTV receiver and Blu-ray player. this makes set up MUCH easier. however, i did later add on an older sony DVD player (not Bravia Link ready) and connected it via component in and using a coax connection for audio. I could have easily used the blu-ray player to upscale my regular DVD's but i really wanted to try out the Faroudja upscaling converter in the receiver. hooking it up the way i did now forces the conversion through the amp. WOW, it looks pretty incredible. my guess the regular DVD was encoded in 480i resolution but i set the receiver to always output 1080p since my TV supports this via the HDMI cable. the picture does not have the color depth as would a brand new blu-ray disc but it looks like the same type of picture that you would see via DirecTV or Dish Network HD from a national network who is basically doing the same upconversion of older movies. I PURPOSELY wanted to see a dark movie be converted. i learned that any bright or outdoor recorded movie will always upconvert better. but, dark movies are harder to upconvert and still look good (in my case i tested with Underworld which is basically dark the whole movie) and there was no hint of a 480 resolution with pixelation when i used the onboard Faroudja converter. If I had connected this older DVD with a dark movie and a standard DVD 480 output directly to my TV then resolution on my 60" HD TV would have looked very bad.

***** BIG TIP. the receiver comes out of the box set up as TV+AMP on it's audio output. I read another persons post where he had problems decoding blu-ray disc's properly and so did I. turn off the TV+AMP and turn it to AMP only and all your decoding works properly.

Blu-ray movies on my sony bdp-s550 sound incredible as would any Dolby TrueHD or DTS disc. absolutely NO hiss and this is an advantage of the true digital environment of the HDMI interface.

AM/FM/Sirius/XM: the built in AM/FM radio is not very good. according to the guys over at Pixel Satellite Radio most A/V receiver manufacturers are skimping on their internal receivers. I live in a major city and AM reception is quite poor even though i purchased one of the Pixel external whip antennas for my house. my car receives better reception because the tuner is far better because it is designed around a good tuner whereas these receivers are designed around audio/video switching and decoding. I bet an older tuner from 10-20 years ago would have a much better AM/FM tuner since it was designed for AM/FM reception. However, the Sirius setup is nice. I use an external antenna from Pixel and it is designed for longer cable runs and stronger reception. The GUI interface allows you to set your station memories and sony has a stock screen that shows the station name and current song. basic but functional. it would be the same if you had an XM tuner.

there seem to be alot of comments about the speaker configuration and tuning screen. this might be the best designed part of the GUI. here you can set your speaker configuration very quickly and if you have an external sub you should set your front speaker size to small (even if they are big) in order to pass sub frequencies to the sub. if you dont then the front and surround speakers get too much bass. turn OFF the subs onboard crossover and you can set the crossover frequency on the amp through the GUI. highest you can go is 200Hz. It also allows you to control your sub's output via db control so you dont have to go to the sub and adjust it's pre-amp level. you can do this through the receiver through the GUI. it is NOT a 1 button item and you have to go through the on screen GUI and go to speaker set up then to the sub but it is straight forward enough to handle in about 10 seconds.

i have heard about past sony models not having good switching onboard in their video processors. however, this has NOT been an issue for me. everything is doing very well with no problems. that 5 year warranty looks nice if anything does happen.

audio. i have noticed that anything that comes off a blu-ray disc with Dolby TrueHD or DTS master has a lower volume through the amp. i have to turn the amp up near to top but there is plenty of power when there is a surge of sound. i guess this is more of the way the master tracks are encoded on the TrueHD or DTS tracks. with analog or PCM the volume is much louder.
If anyone has input on this let me know.

I have read comments and questions about the sony's configuration of THX vs. Neural vs. other audio options. Here is exactly how it works and this should clarify alot of things. once you figure out what the sony designers have done then this starts to make sense. out of the box there are basically 4 audio main settings. there is 2 channel, AFD, Movie, and Music (all buttons on the remote).

1) AFD (Auto Format Direct): there are 3 sub features of AFD - ****** if you set the receive to ANY of the AFD options below and you turn on a 2 channel Dolby 2.0 or THX encoded audio source the receiver will automatically convert it for you. so this is why Sony's manual says if you want to watch a blu-ray that is encoded with the new Dolby or DTS encodings the receiver will automatically decode for you and you dont have to worry about chaning the receiver if you are using any of the AFD options below. this is the setting for alot of you who want to make sure everything goes well. **** after reading online this is the option where to set the "competing" surround codecs for UPCONVERTING 2 channel audio to surround sound from various companies. you can choose. different companies with their take on it. This is where you set the receiver to your preference (Dolby/Lucas Film's ProLogic II, or DTS-Neo, or THX-Neural: they all do the same concept but in different ways) Here are the 3 sub features of AFD:

a) AFD auto which is where sony basically tells you to keep at if you want the receiver to do all the adjustments for you. this will do all the automatic conversions of codecs for you without you having to do anything. Sony manual says this is "Automatically Detecting" for all of you true hard core audio files this is the setting that does NOT add any other processing. the sound is output EXACTLY how the recording engineer recorded it. ANYTHING ELSE BELOW ON ANY OF THE REMAINING OPTIONS WILL ADD PROCESSING. sometimes however this is good so it is YOUR personal preference on what you want to hear.
b) E-Surround (Enhanced Surround): this setting gives you more advanced options on processing but what this does is it allows you to control what happens when an older 2 channel Dolby signal is received or Linear PCM is received (it does NOT say this in the manual but you figure it out) - such as broadcast TV or a DVD or other input. Where people are getting confused is in the onscreen GUI there is a SURROUND menu that gives you the option of what to do with these signals. You have 4 options - ProLogic 2 (the receiver will determine FOR YOU if it is regular ProLogic II or ProLogic IIx) one is 5 channel and one is 7 channel and it is determined whether you have 5.1 or 7.1 setup configured in the amps speaker setup screen. the next 2 of the 4 options is NEO 6 and you can choose between Cinema and Music. the last option is the brand new NEURAL-THX option. from what i understand there is really nothing encoded in this yet but this is changing with Nascar broadcasts and 2 channels of XM radio - one's you probably wouldn't listen to anyway. However, what you need to know is that you can set this and turn on a an older 2 channel Dolby 2.0 encoded source or a Linear PCM source and you will see the Neural-THX icon display or the ProLogic II icon or the DTS-NEO icon (these appear in REAL SMALL letters on the units front display). Since most people like the ProLogic setup it is set out of the box for this. you can play around by changing it and see what it sounds like. remember the "enhanced" name. it is adding enhancements to the surround based on what codec you want to decode to. since it is receiving a 2 channel Dolby 2.0 or Linear PCM input it is then able to apply one of the follow codecs internally. ProLogic IIx, both NEO's and, Neural THX can all take 2 channel audio and convert them to 5.1 or 7.1 channels (if you want to FORCE 5.1 or 7.1 channel then you go to BELOW and select the Multi-Stereo where it forces sound out of all speakers but it will not be surround but simply dubbing, or some people would call matrix, all speakers. If you have a NON Dolby encoded source this feature will do nothing. It will NOT upscale the surround to one of the options above. it will leave it as 2 channel or mono audio. *** For XM users i have read there are currently 2 stations (this was before the Sirius merger) that were broadcast in the Neural-THX mode. So, if you were listening to XM and you had switched the receiver to E-Surround with it set in the GUI -> Surround screen to Neural-THX then it would receive the source and output in the native Neural-THX format. I read on their website that they are promoting that future TV broadcasts will also have Neural-THX but right now I dont see it anywhere although i have read Nascar is broadcasting in it but haven't seen this yet. but, this is where and how you would receive and decode those broadcasts. what I dont know, because nothing is really out there that i can turn on, is if something does come into the receiver as DTS-Neo or THX-Neural will the receiver do what it does with Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master and simply pass it through if you are in AFD Auto. At least with AFD E-Surround you can set it to this in the GUI->surround screen and "artificially" convert to DTS-Neo or THX-Neural when Linear PCM or Dolby 2 signals come in.
c) the last of the 3 AFD options is Multi-Stereo. when this is selected and a Linear PCM or 2 channel Dolby 2.0 source is played then the receiver will output 2 channel audio to ALL speakers you have set up, or like i said above some people would call this matrix the speakers. THIS IS A GREAT OPTION when you are listening to AM or FM radio and even Satellite radio. these are usually received in 2 channel stereo but you can choose Multi-Stereo and listen through all speakers. But note there is NO surround sound in this mode if you receive Linear PCM or Dolby 2 signals. If you do receive Linear PCM or 2 channel Dolby 2.0 this setting takes the left channel speaker and outputs to all left speakers and the same for the right speaker. However, you do NOT get the advantage of AFD E-Surround's ability to do surround sound through ProLogic II, or DTS-Neo, or THX-Neural. the only time i would set this is when i listen to Sirius and i wanted to output regular 2 channel stereo, non Dolby, reception and dubb or matrix the sound to all my speakers.
Remember, if and when a Dolby signal above 2channel Dolby 2.0 is received the receiver will automatically get out of multi-stereo or E-surround automatically and play the correct dolby or dts encoding as long as you are in one of the 3 AFD options. THUS THE AFD name setting or "Auto Format". this is confusing to some but now you know how to use it. I also found by trial and error that when a Dolby or DTS source is played back it doesn't matter whether you are in Auto or E-Surround mode, the receiver will pass through what the source has encoded. I had to dig up an older DVD that has BOTH 2 channel Dolby 2.0 and a newer Dolby format. It was tough but i found the widescreen version from the Star Wars box set. i put in Return of the Jedi and it has Dolby 2.0 as well as an option for a new Dolby Digital EX with 5.1 surround. I put in the DVD and started off by selecting Dolby Digital EX and switched via remote from AFD Auto to AFD E-Surround and it didn't matter which i selected because since i am in the AFD mode it automatically, in both settings, took the encoded Dolby EX and that is what it used. However, when i switched the DVD over to the older 2 channel Dolby 2.0 encoding then things changed. **** When i switched the receiver to AFD Auto it kept it in its native Dolby 2.0 format which meant only my 2 front speakers worked. But, when I switched the receiver over to AFD E-Surround THEN THIS IS WHEN i was able to take the Dolby 2.0 and convert it to one of the other options such as the Neural-THX or Dolby ProLogic II or DTS-Neo. This should explain what the differences are between the AFD Auto and the AFD E-Surround. Since i have my receiver set up in the GUI->Surround settings screen to ProLogic II my amp took that 2 channel Dolby 2.0 encoding and converted it to 5.1 channel ProLogic II and diplayed the ProLogic II icon in small letters on the receivers screen. AFD E-Surround simply looks into the GUI->Surround settings screen when it receives Linear PCM and 2 channel Dolby 2.0 codecs and converts it to whatever you have selected as your choice of options. This allows you to get surround sound off Linear PCM and 2 channel Dolby 2.0 sources. (UPDATE: I have since switched my unit from ProLogic II over to Neural-THX in the Surround settings screen. the difference is stunning in alot of cases. I was watching a movie that was in a jungle setting with lots of background wind and bird noises. In ProLogic II the surround was working but i noticed it tended to blend bird noises on both rear surround speakers. HOWEVER, in the Neural-THX mode it just a significantly better job of breaking up those sounds and you could CLEARLY hear the birds on 1 rear channel then as the picture changed it would change to the other rear speaker. basically it was superior sounding rear surround - which is what Neural-THX claims on their website. Now i am a believer. ***** What I simply dont know is whether the onboard DSP chip is doing processing even though there is NO embedded Neural-THX encoding in the source. Since it did something I am assuming the DSP chip can take standard 2 channel Dolby 2.0 or linear PCM signals and still apply the Neural-THX surround encoding. If so this is great and you dont have to wait for Neural-THX encoded sources to get the benefits. Great for me)

So, for a simple overview of the AFD settings (and this is important because it is the real guts of the audio system) is that most home theater owners will want to set their receivers to AFD E-Surround and probably leave it there. It gives all the automatic pass through conversions of AFD Auto BUT it gives the option to upscale older 2 channel Dolby 2.0 and Linear PCM sources to full surround using the audio codec you set up in the GUI->Surround settings whereas the AFD Auto setting will simply output only 2 channels when receiving 2 channel Dolby 2.0 and Linear PCM sources since it simply passes through the original audio. So, i have my receiver set and using AFD E-Surround with ProLogic II selected. However, when i listen to radio or Sirius i switch over to the AFD Multi-Stereo mode where i can get sound out of all speakers. When i see that DTS-Neo or Neural-THX are going to become mainstream i will switch from ProLoic II to one of these new methods. but right now ProLogic II has far wider usage.

2) MOVIE MODE: this feature ADDS additional conversion to Sony Studios 3 recording studio options and an additional setting for V.Multi Dimension. the 3 sony studio settings are Cary Grant for most cinema movies, Kim Novak for science fiction, and Sony Picture Entertainment studios with orchestra type audio tracks. *** this setting KEEPS the Dolby or DTS encodings but adds additional filtering. my guess changes the bass, treble, etc to preset standards. Even if you do use this setting because you like the sound you can still play new blu-ray discs that are encoded in Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master because it will allow the pass through of these and you will still see those logos on the receivers screen. however, it will add processing to those and it is not the way the original sound engineer recorded the audio source.
V. Multi Dimension is something like a BOSE speaker setting or some TV's where if you only have 2 rear speakers then the receiver will make those 2 speakers sound like there are more than 2 surround speakers. my sony HD TV has this as well. i would never use this feature.

3) MUSIC MODE: this is where you add processing like old school sony receivers: Hall, Jazz, Live Concert, Stadium, Sports, Portable Audio Enhancer. dont know when i would ever use this but maybe for older CD's or something.

4) 2 CHANNEL MODE: basically turns off all speakers and only outputs through 2 speakers. probably never used.

So, for a summation of the audio settings in the tuner is that once you have a choice in the AFD settings to determine what to do with Linear PCM and 2 channel Dolby 2.0 content and set it that way so you dont have to fiddle with it later on. However, you can also get out of the auto formatting AFD options and choose the music or movie modes and get additional sound configuration options. my guess is that MOST home entertainment systems will choose to set up in one of the AFD modes and leave it there.

***** TIP: i have found out that the receiver seems to have memory. so, if i turn to Sirius i can set different stations to say AFD then Multi-Stereo so that i get sound from all my speakers. every time i turn to that station the receiver remembers the setting. however, when i go to SAT for the DirecTV it remembers my last setting of say AFD E-Surround. You just have to set each radio station or each satellite radio station (anything with a memory preset in the receiver) to it's own settings then the receiver will remember it. For something with no presets like a blu-ray player or satellite tv there is nothing to remember and you can just set it to one of the AFD options and the receiver will adjust on it's own based on the encoding passed into it.

There is my basic overview of my 2400ES. I love it but I also have everything Sony so it makes alot of sense with the Bravia Link built into all the units.

Anyone know if the DG1200 can matrix a 5.1 track from a movie to 7.1? edit: can the DG 1200 matrix a 5.1 PCM track to 7.1, ie from PS3.

Thanks

I had to modify this post.....but, i dont think that you can receive Dolby or DTS via PCM. The sony receiver will simply convert the 5.1 to 7.1 in the speaker setup and the receiver is 7.1 compliant once sources start to be recorded in 7.1. But, if you are only running PCM then you are basically getting a 2 channel input to the amp. The ONLY way that i know of on the amp for you to get more than 2 speakers is to use AFD Multi-Stereo or AFD E-Surround. those 2 settings will force sound out of all connected speakers. ***However, the amp will do it differently based on the 2 settings and i will go through that below.

As I am typing this message i am listening to a PCM signal from a DirecTV input and my receiver is in AFD E-Surround mode and is set up in the GUI->surround screen as ProLogic II and when a Linear PCM signal or Dolby 2 signal is received it will force the transition over to what you have set in the GUI->surround settings.

When in AFD-Auto the receiver does NOT alter the incoming signal. If you have a PCM signal it will ONLY output via 2 front channels. When in AFD E-Surround the receiver will look to your GUI-> surround settings and force processing through what you have set on that page and will then output to the other speakers accordingly. When in AFD Multi-Stereo mode it simply forces sound out all speakers but only in 2 channel stereo. that means that all left speakers will sound the same and all right speakers will sound the same. not surround. if you have 5.1 then you will have 2 left speakers sound the same and same for the right and if you have 7.1 configured you will have 3 speakers each side sounding the same. not surround at all.

In the GUI->surround setup page you have the choice of ProLogic II (stock out of the box setting and tuner will determine if signal is ProLogic II or ProLogic IIx), DTS-Neo (2 types), and THX-Neural. So, in my case the PCM signal coming in is being converted over to ProLogic II. When I listen i can hear the voices from the front speakers and then i hear additional sound occasionally from the rear surround speakers. So, i am under the impression that the signal is being converted to the ProLogic II surround. The rear speakers do NOT always have sound to them which makes me think there is a conversion to a surround type format. However, when I switch over to AFD Multi-Stereo on the remote then I am simply dubbing the sound from the front speakers to the rear speakers. Then, when I switch to AFD Auto I only hear the front speakers since the amp is not doing any processing at all.

so, in your case setting the amp to AFD E-Surround SHOULD, and I say SHOULD, give you some type of converted or like you say matrixed, surround sound.

Can the volume be adjusted per input for the STRDG1200? Similiar to the Onkyo's Intelli volume feature. My cable box's volume via HDMI is much lower than the PS3 or XBOX, just want to find a way to make it as even as possible.

Eddie