The Magic 8 Ball Speaks Out On TVGOS & DTV! - Page 4

I've just got a DTV channel lineup. No listings yet, but a valid lineup of primary channels only with a couple of stations missing.

Alex
Portland, Oregon

Great! Since videobruce already started one, maybe we should use that?

There are so many threads under different forums discussing TVGOS, that it would be nice to have a CENTRAL HUB discussing only TVGOS specific info that links to all the TVGOS heavy threads on the board.

Actually, Ken, I think the focus of your opening post was that analog-dependent devices like the Sony 250/500 would be fine without need of other devices....

This was reassuring for that device (and perhaps similar ones), for which there was already evidence that it wouldn't take a lot for it to continue working, since people (including me) had already demonstrated that it COULD get TVGOS data from CBS digital stations...

This didn't say much about devices that HAD to get their data from an analog station, and TVGOS had already been telling us all that we would all need a DTVPal for this, AND they had also said they would work by August or September....which obviously didn't happen!

So it's VERY reassuring for those with devices that REQUIRE analog TVGOS that the DTVPal may have started to work in a couple of areas...THAT's a new development (despite the very public assurances that TVGOS has been giving us for most of a year!)

Quote from Ken earlier:

"I started the topic. I'm the one who told the forum this would be happening.

I was making a sarcastic comment in regards to all the naysayers who questioned what I posted."

[okay, I cannot find the place that lets me use quotes]
____________________________________________________________ _____
Ken,

I never doubted you from the beginning. My only issue was timing.

Unfortunately, now I don't get what happened. What has changed? How does this work?

Note that I am not a SONY owner and am unfamiliar with what a DTVPal does. It sounds like a DTV converter box. IF true, why does the person from Houston all of a sudden have a picture on his Panasonic DVD Recorder?

Avnstf indicates that the DVR may be getting v7 TVGOS setup data for his analog unit from the converted signal from his DTVPal. Why today and not yesterday?

I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.

P.S. I would make a snarky comment about why Bobby Hull was a much better player than Gordie Howe but I actually want you to answer so I will save it.

The DTVPal has a special mode, called the "TVGOS mode"...in this mode, the Pal can convert and pass through a specifically tailored set of TVGOS data that is received digitally and then passes through to a TVGOS unit that requires one of the older forms of TVGOS data IN ANALOG FORM. Until the last few days, the specific form of TVGOS data that is needed for this pass-through was not being broadcast!

This has apparently now changed, at least in some areas of the country. In this special (TVGOS) mode, the Pal - after supplying the TVGOS data to the unit that requires - then just serves as a slave (a front-end) to that unit...e.g., an analog DVD recorder or even to a digital high-def recorder that still requires the TVGOS data in analog form. That unit can then tune the Pal to a station that it selects, and even records (in the case of a DVD or hard-drive recorder).

At least 3 people in different areas of the country have, since yesterday, reported success in using the Pal in this mode, which is completely different from the normal mode, where the Pal is a simple digital-to-analog converter that has nothing to do with the TVGOS data (except that, where a digital station is broadcasting the ordinary TVGOS data, the Pal will pick up its time signal from the PSIP time of that station).

Where does all of this leave me?

I have a Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR. I am OTA only. I have trusted in the M8B that my equipment will work with the digital standard without any modifications/additional equipment.

Does this now mean that I need to go out and purchase a DTV Pal in order to get the TVGOS? (I know that there is a backdoor way to force the Sony to use a digital host. I just feel that since the Sony does not accept/find the digital host on its own without being forced, there may be issues with this solution in the long term.)

I only 'played' with this 'DTVPal' once. The first thing I noticed was the almost instant retrival of data. Another point, AFAIK this will only retrive OTA station programming listings, not CATV services since it has no QAM tuner. Anyone confirm this?

^^^
The only thing scary about this statement is the "should" part..............

Yesterday my guide was reset again. This time KQED 9.1 digital cable was in the number one spot, in the past it has been KGO 7 analog. This may indicate a change in the host for comcast in the south bay. I expected KPIX 5.1 to be the new host. All 8 days of listings were present.

http://www.spiffspace.com/TVGOS_Training_Manual.pdf
NOTE: As part of the agreement that Gemstar – TV Guide has with the Host stations to
include the TVGOS data in the broadcast signal, the Host channel receives “top billing” in the
program list. Therefore, for reference purposes, you can determine the Host channel since it is
the top most channel in the default program list"

I have the Sony dvr.

meaning TVGOS patch code software?

Well, the Sony gets its version 8 TVGOS firmware updated periodically.

I would speculate that he means (OR those he is speaking with at Gemstar mean) that there will be an upgrade that obviates the unit's current preference for analog TVGOS data AND presumably prevents the TVGOS firmware from resetting to the old firmware in the event the TV Guide in a unit is reset (since currently it resets to firmware that DOES NOT include a digital capability)!

I hope Ken will correct me if I am wrong...

All what links? I think we hava a mis-communication.

Has anyone else experienced their reply's disappearing?

As does my Mits TV w/v8.


Exactly what I was saying. When I had the exact same TVGOS version as you (08.02.44/08.06.44), but on my Mits TV, I was able to 'force' a digital CBS host on it. Now that I have updated the TVGOS base version (came with the Mits Netcommand FW update) to 08.01.71, I have been unable to get a digital host channel. I just posted this a few minutes ago, but my post was lost. Must be something going on with the server or software tonight.

The links to all the different TVGOS-related threads on the forum here.

This sums up my concerns perfectly.

Until the behavior of the DHGs changes on a factory reset, or the default firmware is somehow updated on the DHGs then we are not completely covered going forward.

I doubt that we will ever know for sure unless a DHG owner can somehow get ahold of the person at Gemstar doing the work. I don't want to dismiss Ken's contributions to the effort but I don't think he fully comprehends the issue with the DHGs and thus could be giving misinterpretted assurances of future success.

-phil

So I'm new to this and just want to clarify what seems to be the concensus here ...

Here's my summary:

I have a Toshiba TV with base version 08.01.53. My TVGOS disappeared this past weekend. I'm on Boston-area Comcast and I think perhaps (given the proximity to 2/17) they stopped broadcasting the analog feeds directly and started converting the digital feeds to analog themselves.

And here's what I've done/tried so far:

• I've done a complete reset of the TV (and the TVGOS via 653274147) and have had no success getting any more data. It's now in state 08.01.53/00.00.00/ (i.e. no loaded firmware).
  
• I've tried to force it to use a digital host (as described here) with no luck.
  
• I've communicated with WBZ (our local CBS station) and they confirmed they are sending TVGOS data on both their analog and digital broadcasts.

So this is what I want to confirm:

• bwall23 seems to be saying that starting from 08.01.53 I shouldn't be able to get data from a digital transmission. I need to get updated firmware to get to a state where my system can read the digital data.
  
• Thus if my conjecture about Comcast is correct (i.e. they are no longer sending the analog broadcasts directly), I need to get TVGOS working with an OTA configuration, so I can read analog data and get my firmware up to a state where it can read digital data.

Is that correct?

Thanks,
ddartmouth

Just a note to those unfamiliar with the DTV Pal CECB, because it too often gets omitted when discussing the DTV Pal's mode to convert digital TVGOS to analog TVGOS. The receiving device (DVD recorder etc.) has to have a way to remotely control the DTV Pal and change it's channels -- typically an IR blaster. For example, all TVGOS equipped Panasonic DVD recorders with HDD have an IR blaster to enable control of a cable STB and thus can control the DTV Pal. If the analog TVGOS device does not have that capability, the DTV Pal in TVGOS mode will be of no use to it.

That's exactly right. In eastern MA, Comcast has been doing this incrementally on a channel-by-channel and town-by-town basis for several months. Here in Plymouth, for example, they pulled the plug on FOX 25 analog (the previous source of our TVGOS info) in early December and substituted D/A-converted FOX 25 digital (with no TVGOS info). I have not been able to lock onto any analog TVGOS info since then, despite disinformation from posters in various threads that TVGOS in the Boston area is now being carried by analog 25, analog 2, and analog 4. They can't all be right.

Depends on the guide versions. v7 uses one (I don't know if anything older uses the same or what), and v8 & v9 use another.

At least that's how it's been for a long time (and still is) as far as analog OTA goes (actually, there was a time where a few channels were carrying it).

Cable (here) used multiple analog channels, too, at least until people have been reporting it gone more recently.

Hi...as owner of a digital high-def DVR (the LG3410a) that will only accept TVGOS data in analog form, I have been carefully following developments related to the DTVPal's use for converting digital TVGOS data to an analog form that is useful for a digital device. I have been particularly interested in posts on this topic since some digital stations around the country apparently began, around 10 days ago, broadcasting the special(?) TVGOS data required for the DTVPal's TVGOS mode to function.

I have not looked at all threads related to use of this mode, and in particular at none of the threads devoted to purely analog devices, so I don't know much about how these devices are faring with the Pal in this mode. What concerns me is that I have seen NO case of complete success in using the Pal's TVGOS mode in conjunction with a high-def device with a DIGITAL tuner or recorder.

In the LG3410a thread, of most interest to me, the one person reporting initially getting some TVGOS listings via the Pal has had only limited success as of the last report. And the one example (to my knowledge) reported in the DTVPal thread of someone using the Pal with a digital high-def TV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post15858559) indicated that he (or she) could get TVGOS LISTINGS, but in the setup specified by the Pal manual, his TV was turned into an analog TV, i.e., it only got signal through the Pal, which was of course analog.

The question is whether there is a mode of using the DTVPal for receiving analog TVGOS data that still permits the use of a digital device (such as a TV or DVR) AS A DIGITAL DEVICE...is not, we are screwed (not to mention grossly misled by the GEMSTAR people).

If we are screwed by the normal setup for the DTVPal in TVGOS mode, there might, of course, be an intermediate operating state, i.e., using the Pal in the TVGOS mode and setting the digital device to the "fake" zip code, but NOT changing it into "cable box" mode or using the DTVPal as a front end, but only as a parallel signal source (in particular of the converted CBS digital channel). Perhaps we would then have a TV Guide screen with program data for the "fake" channel numbers, but would have to tune manually or (more problematically) set recordings manually, rather than using the TV Guide as designed.

If THAT's the way the Pal will work with digital devices, we are only MOSTLY screwed!

I still hope this isn't the way things turn out, but the signs so far are not too hopeful.

In any event, I think we need a thread on Digital HD devices, TVGOS, and the DTVPal!!! OR on the DTVPal with digital HD devices using analog TVGOS to have a central point where this issue is discussed. THIS thread could serve this purpose if the first suggested title is employed...just a thought. We could, of course, also reinstate the DTVPal and TVGOS thread tht some time ago was buried in the general DTVPal thread...or to be more precise, we could call it the DTVPal used in TVGOS mode.

It would also be useful (and unusually responsible) for Gemstar to indicate HOW the DTVPal is to be used with these devices, since the Pal manual acts like they don't exist!!!

Not in this market. The PBS affilate has been the host station in this market, but it isn't at the top of the list, just mixed in with everyone else.

Also the case here in San Diego. My three TVGOS equipped devices show 1:0-11 as host. TWC analog cable channel for KPBS. Never at the top of the list.

Still fully populated however.

Hi,

Could the Magic 8-Ball be right? Ask again Later.

I live in Wichita, Kansas. I have a Sony DHG-250 that is connected over the air. However, on my upstairs TV I have a panasonic DMR-E95H Analog DVD recorder with TVGOS built-in. It is connected to Cox cable. I have not received the guide listings on this DVR since August of 2007 (yes, 2007). My host channel has shown as 0x0. I communicated recently with macrovision because they reported that the TVGOS on Cox in Wichita was "known to be working". Well after giving them some information off my unit, they reported back that it wasn't working because they had already made the transition to digital, so it wouldn't work until after the transition. I was skeptical that it would ever work again... but tonight, I felt a faint pulse from my DMR-E95H. When I went into the TV-Guide, it prompted me to select between two channel line ups. Although everything still shows as No Listing, I'm hoping that the TVGOS on my E95H may actually be coming back to life. I checked the host channel and it is now reporting as 0xC (could it be channel 12 which is our CBS affiliate?). I then went downstairs to my Sony, and connected it to cable, and tuned to cable channel 12 (did you know that you can tune to cable channels even if you use the box OTA only? You just enter the channel a second time, and you can hear the relay click, and that is the cable channel). I did a G* Test on channel 12, and the VBI Test passed. I'm holding my breath that tomorrow morning for the first time in a year and a half, I'll see guide data.

Mark

glad to hear some cable is getting better at getting TVGOS, but I think the discussion in this thread is aimed at how digital high-def devices that have needed analog TVGOS will be working with OTA digital TVGOS...

You're probably right. I've been following this thread on two fronts, one is in relation to my DHG, and the other is the possibility that my analog DVR could someday start getting guide data again. I really thought that the DTV transition would mean the end of the analog stream of TVGOS. I'm thrilled that it didn't end even if it is over cable only.

Mark

OK, here you go... TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices