Moxi HD DVR - Page 15

For those of you that had previously had your displays ISF'd, have you noticed a 'red push' in the Moxi's picture and if so, was it addressed in the software updates?

I had previously owned a Moxi, but found I missed the grid guide. One of the things I mentioned to tech support to be addressed, was a red push on its output relative to other boxes I've owned.

I must admit though that I'm also concerned about the buy out of Diego.

I can't disagree. It'll be interesting to see how the Moxi® Home Gateway is promoted.

I wonder if present day standalone Moxi subs will get special offers for this new, probably high priced, system.

hey guys, anyone having any issues with their guide info? I noticed Friday night I started to lose some channel icons and last night I lost everything. There is no guide info, no icons, and it seems to be showing (and not showing) channels regardless of being enabled or disabled in the channel list. Am i the only one?

No big surprise there - at $800, their DVR was at least $200 overpriced, they didn't have a brand name like Tivo, and they didn't do enough things better than Tivo.

No issues here. My guide still looks OK as of last night.

With the new season here, and my FiOS 6416 nearly full, I've started using my Moxi box more actively as well. Interesting swtiching back and forth between the two. More HD goodness!

Mike

TiVo is a familiar word, but is often (mis)used generically just to mean DVR.

Moxi is not $200 overpriced. It's priced about $200 more than a HDTiVo with 160GB HDD or $200 less than HDTiVo XL with a 1TB HDD when either TiVo is provided with Lifetime Service as the only TiVo on an account.

Bfdtv's comparison chart of current standalone recorders, which focuses on their different design philosophies:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...56&postcount=6

Moxi doesn't do many things better than TiVo but sure does things differently! The best recorder is the one a user likes most.

I'll agree to that. I've owned a Tivo and currently own a Sony HD DVR and the Moxi with Moxi Mate. The Moxi is by far the funnest DVR to use. My wife agrees as well. The MRV through the Moxi Mate is one of the features I appreciate the most. Works flawlessly. The Moxi w/ Mate is the perfect package for my needs.

Um, ok. So why did they fail? Might it have something to do with bundling the sub price in with the box, thus repeating the same mistakes that ReplayTV made?

I don't care how you justify it, in the consumer's mind $800 is way too much to spend upfront for a DVR, 'premium' or no. Especially in this economy. Not to mention that they didn't even advertise or sell it anywhere other than Amazon (that I can see).

Let's face it, Digeo was run by fools in the marketing dept. when this box was put on sale.

At the same retailer (Amazon), the prices, last I checked, were approximately:
TivoHD: $250 ($650 w/ $400 subscription)
TivoHD XL: $470 ($870 w/ $400 subscription)
Moxi: $800
So, the differences are around $150 and $70, not $200 and $200.

And, if you purchase a 2nd TiVo unit and buy lifetime service for it, TiVo will drop the lifetime sub to $299 for the 2nd unit.

Yep; that's true now. TiVo's getting cheaper!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ce_500_t...d_i=1266092011
But I'd still buy a DVR because I liked it rather than because it was cheap.


They sure will, but then you're talking spending at least $1200 for two TiVo's with small HDD's or $1640 for two with big ones or $1420 for one of each. Too bad Comcast restricts premium channels for transferring between TiVos.

TiVo makes the most reliable DVR but not the one that suits everyone best.

TiVo Service specializes in automatic everything. The best deal on TiVo for me would be picking up a Toshiba TiVo DVD recorder with Limited Basic service for $280 which provides a 'green card' for Manual to do the work using a 160 GB HDD and DVD-R. YMMV.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TOSHIBA-RSTX60-W...d=p3286.c0.m14

For someone who has such negative feelings about Moxi you sure spend a lot of time in the Moxi thread. Hmmm.

As far as 'consumer's mind' you can only authoritatively speak about yours. While TiVo is cheaper it's far from cheap. And over a 10 year lifespan TiVo has yet to attain profitability on an ongoing basis. Except for patent attorneys TiVo doesn't present the sharpest business model or marketing.

Time will tell how Arris deals with all Moxi products. It's likely standalone Moxi was cheap to develop because Moxi's cable co. offerings are based on a similiar architecture.

Standalone Moxi is still available. For me Moxi is more fun no matter how good TiVo is at automatically counting beans. YMMV.

BTW, I still enjoy my ReplayTVs. They have the same functionality they ever had and a far more legible and useful EPG than TiVo.

There isn't much of a price difference between Moxi and Tivo.....if you get 1 tuner. For me the where Moxi won (in terms of my purchase) is with the Moxi Mate. If I would have boughten a TivoHD and a TivoHD XL (one more my main tv and one for my second tv in order to share shows I would have spent $1420 ($470 + $400 for lifetime subscription for the HDXL and $250 + $300 for the HD)

I would also still be spending an additional $4 a month for the additional cable card.

So the price difference for me was $1000 for the moxi and mate or $1420 + $4 a month for the 2-Tivos.

Good point. Defnitely a very noticeable difference in that situation.

I can not speak for slowbiscuit, but I know that I want it to succeed, and feel disappointed that, in my opinion (and not just mine, I might add), it was mismanaged. I felt similarly (but much stronger) about ReplayTV - it was the best (IMO) and it never survived to the point that it offered HD or two tuners. I still look at it somewhat longingly when my daughter is using it. So, it is particularly disappointing that Digeo did not learn enough from ReplayTV history. Hopefully, Arris will do better.

LOL, I don't have negative feelings about the Moxi, I have negative feelings about Digeo. They reaped what they sowed, because they acted idiotically by repeating the same doomed approach used by ReplayTV when they bundled the sub price with the box. Therefore, I think the results speak for themselves when projecting the consumer's mind in this market. I wish they had succeeded just to provide competition to Tivo, but they didn't.

My comment about being overpriced wasn't meant as a comparison to an equivalent Tivo, it was a simple statement that the consumer was not willing to pay that much upfront for an HD DVR. Hell, I've read lots of comments from smart folks here on AVS about using cableCo DVRs because they don't want to drop $250 on a Tivo. Doesn't make much sense to me because even with a lifetime sub it will pay for itself in less than 3 years, but that's how they feel.

So $800 is not overpriced for the average consumer?? In this economy? And before you say, 'it's a premium DVR at a premium price', well I think we just found out how many 'premium' consumers there are. And it wasn't better than the well-known Tivo anyway, just different, and didn't have any brand awareness. No one knows what a Moxi is unless they are on a cableCo that uses them, but everyone knows what a Tivo is.

I'm happy that y'all are happy with the box, and I hope that Arris doesn't dump y'all on the floor by discontinuing guide service. But given the small number of boxes that shipped...

Except that that box is SD only and will have limited functionality after cable converts analog to digital. It in no way compares to a Tivo HD or Moxi. As you said, YMMV.

Frankly, I think one of the best choices for full HD cable DVR service starting next year will be to buy one of the new 4- or 6- tuner Cablecard HTPC cards that will be coming out, then build a Windows 7 Media Center HTPC and use Xbox360s as extenders. No extra digital outlet fees from your cableCo (you only have to rent one Cablecard for up to 6 tuners) and more functionality than the Tivo or Moxi, with a cheaper price than either if you need a multi-TV setup.

I have 1 TiVo w/lifetime, and 2 DTiVo boxes. The original TiVo has been online since 1999 or so, and I've had DirecTV since 1996.

I had a short stint with Comcast and their HD DVR until Verizon came into town.

I have 2 Verizon HD DVRs.

I have 1 Moxi.

I did not take the plunge into TiVo HD, primarily because of the uncertainty of how SDV might have been dealt with; though a moot point, now with Verizon FiOS.

In a word, the overall lifetime costs of TiVo HD and Moxi are about the same.

TiVo and TiVo HD have been in the stores for years; Moxi has not been at all to my knowledge. The primary reason Moxi is seeing little to no market penetration is that most people don't even know it exists. The audience here on AVS Forum, as well as the other enthusiast sites is simply too small to make a significant dent in market share.

It has taken years for TiVo to penetrate the market, and still, with its clear lead in market share, it is still a company that is struggling. For awhile, they had some significant help in developing market share when they hitched their efforts to DirecTV. Alas, that did not continue.

The winners so far are the DVR suppliers to the cable companies - Motorola, and others.

If TiVo or Moxi truly had significant partnerships with the cable companies, there might be better market visibility. I am sure that either company would welcome such a partnership. But alas, it is not to be, except for a few successes for Moxi with sister company Charter (both have Paul Allen affiliation). TiVo has some multi-year experiments getting its user interface installed on the Comcast Motorola boxes in some markets in the Northeast.

Which is better? TiVo HD or Moxi? I'll leave it to others to debate this. From my perspective, each has advantages and disadvantages. I truly want both to succeed, because competition is good for the consumer.

What I like about the Moxi is the multi-room capabilities mentioned upthread; the Verizon FiOS boxes can do this too. Even better is Moxi's internet capability, tie to Play On for Hulu and other internet video sources; and one of my favorites, ability to play videos from my DLNA-server movie libraries. Verizon is testing some software for their FiOS boxes that provide some home media video capability, in addition to its deployed music and photo sharing.

TiVo HD can be expanded up to 2TB with certain external drives from WD (not just any eSATA drive), while the Moxi can be expanded with up to 6TB or more using most any external eSATA drive - they announced compatibility with LaCie's 6TB 4big Quadra. Of course, there are many TiVo expansion alternatives for the technical savvy; this doesn't help the average consumer, though.

I like the DLNA capability of the Moxi, since I can have easy access to any of the media on my home media server - this includes file and DLNA servers I have tested from Windows Vista, Windows Home Server, OS X, and LaCie.

I would have had a TiVo HD by now, if it weren't for the original higher cost + monthly fees, and the SDV uncertainty. But that is all sorted out now and prices are much lower now, so a moot point. Yes, there have been continued software improvements, but the TiVo HD hardware is getting quite old. I am holding out for a refresh beyond just a bigger hard drive. I expect something might show up in 2010 as others have speculated, too.

That's my 2 cents.

If you can see either box first hand, make your own comparisons. You're just more likely to see a TiVo HD first hand because of its retail presence.

Finally, as others have noted, if you only care about internet and server supplied video, your xBox or PS3 are all you really need. But for cable and premium channels, near term your choices are limited to cable-company-supplied DVRs, or the TiVo HD or Moxi boxes. ONce Win7 rolls out, look for some exciting alternatives since CableLabs and Microsoft have relaxed requirements for CableCard compatible digital tuners for Win7 based PCs.

Disclosure: as for the LaCie reference, yes, I am an employee of LaCie. I have played with DVR technology for years.

The Toshiba TiVo DVD recorder controls a digital cable STB and will lose no functionality after cable converts to digital. Of course DVDs are intrinsically standard-def only.

All recorders require making compromises within an entire spectrum of options. The Toshiba TiVo with TiVo Basic Service is significantly cheaper overall than any TiVo which doesn't record DVD's. There's another Toshiba TiVo DVD recorder with 120GB HDD as well as a TiVo/DVD player with TiVo Basic which are typically offered much cheaper than the 160 GB Toshiba, BTW.

I prefer to save special programs to DVD more than I care about watching everything in hi-def. I generally record in standard-def and watch hi-def live or from the recording buffer.

--
BTW, Moxi has design flaws, some of which are irritating. I sent the following email to Moxi yesterday after they reported on an issue I had reported:


Moxi does have advantages though, especially when streaming programs to another room. Too often Premium channels can't be transferred as files. In addition Moxi is more useful and fun than TiVo when a user doesn't choose to watch everything timeshifted.

Typically the latest and newest offerings have the highest value associated with them. But TiVo's specialty is watching TV later than you have too. That's fine when there are schedule conflicts, but far more often than not I want to see a program I like as soon as it's first on.

Perhaps ReplayTV's biggest mistake was trying to emulate TiVo instead of pursuing a uniquely different recorder. They could have removed internet file sharing and CA, if they had to, without completely redesigning the box. The incompatibility SonicBlu engineered between RTV's 4000 and 5000 series and their subsequent offer to replace 4000's for free cost them plenty.

Overall your posts are more simplistic and negative than analytical. Instead of spreading FUD, just wait awhile.

And you have a habit of not reading or comprehending what folks write when you reply. I hope that Arris continues to provide service for the Moxi.

OK, folks let's cool down. These are just electronic toys that quickly lose their value, so nothing to get excited about.

So how about a Solomon's decision? I can get a Moxi with a nice discount that makes it cheaper than an HD XL TiVo with Lifetime.

What would you choose at this moment? How about if you were addicted to the i.TV iPhone app, which allows you to remotely program a TiVo? Let me know what you would pick.

I comprehend the difference between the highlighted sentences in the two posts quoted above. Do you?

I own a Moxi, a Moxi Mate, and 7 TiVo's with Lifetime Service including 2 S3's and a HDTiVo. (Currently I only use the TiVo S3s.)

I post here and at TCF; don't disparage either at either site but have been critical of both. The poster with whom I differ doesn't own any Moxi product but routinely disparages Moxi in the Moxi thread.


Buy one of each!

RE: remote programming with your iPhone

I can remotely program my Verizon box, and my Moxi box from my Nokia smartphone or any internet browser computer - no special app needed at all. I can't do this with my ancient DirecTiVo's unfortunately, but of course one can do this with any of the TiVo HD units.

Next challenge?

PS yeah, the iPhone is cool and all that, but not everyone has one (my son does); and it can't do everything, despite what that SNL parody claimed.

I rest my case. Enjoy your box, for as long as support for it lasts. But understand that you bought a low volume product within a niche, that's all.

Since Moxi is now owned by Arris, what exactly IS your case for posting here other than spreading FUD?

---
At one time I thought I disliked TiVo. After reconsidering why, I realized there's no problem whatsoever with TiVo; my distaste is for TiVo fanatics who continually espouse their way of watching TV as the only acceptable method for an intelligent person to consider.

Once again, you prove what I wrote about lack of comprehension. I NEVER said that Tivo is the only acceptable way to record and watch TV, nor did I imply it. In fact if you look at posts above I mentioned building an HTPC setup with Windows 7 and the soon-to-arrive 4-or-6 way Cablecard tuners. And I run a Myth box now for clear QAM HD recordings. But hey, if putting words into my mouth makes you feel froggy, then jump away.

For the reading impaired, once again - I think Moxi is a FINE alternative to Tivo, tech-wise. I just don't like the way Digeo (mis)managed the marketing, and I fear that Arris will have little incentive to keep it going - they may have just wanted the intellectual property. But they'd probably have a lawsuit on their hands from some of you if they did try to discontinue guide service. We'll see what happens.

Hmmm. Now you're going the insult route.

Notice two things: (1) The three li'l dashes separating the question I asked you (as an individual) from the observation about some TiVo fans, and (2) the complete absense of anything referring to you in that observation. Of course your 'reading impaired' reference isn't required to be, but in context appears to be, directed my way.

Unfortunately, with regard to specific features and functionalities, Moxi is NOT always 'a fine alternative to TiVo'. In other ways it is. For me it's simply more fun! It's an individual user's call.

FWIW, I have no interest in an EPG lawsuit.

I agree completely with your last sentence. If it wouldn't be impractically difficult to get a trustworthy intermediary to hold the dough, I'd bet you $100 that Moxi's EPG will be available until at least Jan. 1, 2015. (Of course it might be available much longer!) Wonder if bfdtv would do it.

Haha, well I already have too much equipment clutter, so must choose just one.