or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Moxi HD DVR
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Moxi HD DVR - Page 197

post #5881 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

Recording Problems!

I'm wondering if anyone has an input into the new wrinkle I've experienced? In addition to two Mates, we have two 3-tuner Moxis, and the problem is happening with both Moxis. Both Moxis have 40-50% or so storage space remaining. I emailed tech support Sunday night, but in spite of the "you'll have a response within 48 hours," I've heard nothing yet. As near as I can tell, the problem started last Thursday or Friday.

Over the weekend, I noticed quite a few shows that should have recorded didn't. Some shows had long been scheduled to record as Series, and some were individual episodes. AFAIK, there have been absolutely no changes to my cable channel lineup -- I confirmed by checking TWC's listing for my area as well as comparing guide data from the TWC HD box with the Moxi Program Guide. In the distant past, we had a couple of instances where episodes recorded that weren't the correct show because TWC switched some channels from east coast feeds to west coast feeds (or something like that), so the Moxi Program Guide had to be fixed by Tribune, something that was accomplished pretty quickly. So, that's something I checked to try to figure out the problem, and there doesn't seem to have been any change.

In trying to figure out the problem, the first thing I noticed was that the little channel logo icons (not sure what they're really called) in the Program Guide were newly MIA for several channels, although the guide data was still present & accurate. And, it just so happened that all the missing recordings were from channels with newly missing channel logo icons -- one was a SD/digital channel & the other five or so channels are HD. Other channels don't have channel logo icons, but some have always been missing, and I don't know about the rest because they aren't channels I pay any attention to.

Then, I went to Recorded TV Options, Series Options to make sure I hadn't lost my mind thinking shows I've been watching for several years were scheduled to record when they weren't. Nope -- my mind is intact, and the shows along with their associated recording options are correct. The channel logo icons are missing there as well. I don't know enough about how stuff works to understand why missing channel logo icons would cause recording failures when the correct actual channel and data still exists in the Program Guide. I forced a guide update -- nothing changed.

Finally, I went to the "Canceled and Deleted" section to look at why things on those six channels that should have recorded didn't. Without exception, they all had the explanation of "Not recorded (not aired)." What the heck?! It just so happened that when I was making my "let's play at troubleshooting" attempts, a show that should have been recording wasn't and showed as "not aired." I flipped to the channel and the correct show and episode were airing. Since then, there have been quite a few recording failures where I've been able to absolutely confirm that the shows did air. It seems those little channel logo icons trump the actual Program Guide data?

Since I first noticed the problem on Saturday AM, one of the MIA channel logo icons reappeared on its own (I think it was later Saturday or early Sunday), yet shows scheduled to record still failed to record with the erroneous "Not recorded (not aired)" explanation.

So, does anyone have any suggestions? Some of the individual episodes that failed to record in that time have since aired, and I was able to individually schedule them to record -- that seems to have been successful.

I thought about just deleting the scheduled Series and rescheduling them, but in addion to being a huge PITA, I don't know if I'd have to delete them again and reschedule them again when things get fixed on Moxi's -- or maybe Tribune's -- end? Plus, quite a few Series that I have scheduled to record are between seasons, so I wouldn't be able to set those up for a few months until episodes start airing again, so there's the distinct possibility that I could miss a lot.

Finally, I had another perhaps related, perhaps unrelated recording glitch Monday night. I have Revolution (NBC HD) scheduled to record as a series; it currently airs on Monday nights. The NBC HD channel is not one of those suffering from a MIA channel logo icon. Because I missed out on some of the initial episodes (which I subsequently watched elsewhere), the series was set to accept Repeats and keep 20 episodes or something like that. As some may know, last week's episode wasn't aired by NBC to provide special coverage of tragic bombing in Boston. In my market, the NBC affiliates chose to air reruns of Jeopardy or something like that. Since Revolution still showed in the Program Guide data, the Moxi recorded that hour, which was deleted that night. Flash forward to this Monday -- an hour or so before Revolution was to start, we were scrolling through the Program Guide. I noticed that Revolution didn't have the little circle to indicate it would record. WTF?! I hit "record this episode," and it did, but why wasn't it going to record as scheduled? I double-checked the Program Guide data, and it wasn't listed as a repeat (which shouldn't have mattered anyway) , so I just don't get it. I do know that the Moxi won't record a duplicate episode if it already has the episode recorded, but this wasn't the case. It looks like it will record as scheduled next Monday, but I'll be double-checking just in case. Or, maybe I'll just delete the Series recording and reschedule it -- that's early enough to do for one show -- but I'd like to understand what happened.

I'll appreciate any insight!
Saundra,

I too record Revolution. I'll check my recordings tonight and will respond if there is any detectable funny business. That said, I think we Moxi users are experiencing weirdisms and glitchiness that reflect that fact that because of Arris's ignorance, the software has not been updated in over three years.

J
post #5882 of 6199
do you have a tuning adapter, etc. on your moxi? its weird that both 3 tuners exhibit same behavior. in regards to support, I usually call them back as it seems there is only 1 or 2 people working with us. The last few times I've called in the last several months..i know I've gotten the same person but he knows what he is doing thank goodness. smile.gif
post #5883 of 6199
Revolution reschedule caused failed recordings for multiple users, even those not using Moxi. See the Revolution programming thread. It failed for me too.

TWC is to blame for the majority of my failed recordings. Either the TA craps out and fails to sync the channel or in some cases it's recorded an entirely different channel because they've switched assignments around again and the information has not been fed to the card.
post #5884 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

Recording Problems!

I'm wondering if anyone has an input into the new wrinkle I've experienced? In addition to two Mates, we have two 3-tuner Moxis, and the problem is happening with both Moxis. Both Moxis have 40-50% or so storage space remaining. I emailed tech support Sunday night, but in spite of the "you'll have a response within 48 hours," I've heard nothing yet. As near as I can tell, the problem started last Thursday or Friday.

Over the weekend, I noticed quite a few shows that should have recorded didn't. Some shows had long been scheduled to record as Series, and some were individual episodes. AFAIK, there have been absolutely no changes to my cable channel lineup -- I confirmed by checking TWC's listing for my area as well as comparing guide data from the TWC HD box with the Moxi Program Guide. In the distant past, we had a couple of instances where episodes recorded that weren't the correct show because TWC switched some channels from east coast feeds to west coast feeds (or something like that), so the Moxi Program Guide had to be fixed by Tribune, something that was accomplished pretty quickly. So, that's something I checked to try to figure out the problem, and there doesn't seem to have been any change.

In trying to figure out the problem, the first thing I noticed was that the little channel logo icons (not sure what they're really called) in the Program Guide were newly MIA for several channels, although the guide data was still present & accurate. And, it just so happened that all the missing recordings were from channels with newly missing channel logo icons -- one was a SD/digital channel & the other five or so channels are HD. Other channels don't have channel logo icons, but some have always been missing, and I don't know about the rest because they aren't channels I pay any attention to.

Then, I went to Recorded TV Options, Series Options to make sure I hadn't lost my mind thinking shows I've been watching for several years were scheduled to record when they weren't. Nope -- my mind is intact, and the shows along with their associated recording options are correct. The channel logo icons are missing there as well. I don't know enough about how stuff works to understand why missing channel logo icons would cause recording failures when the correct actual channel and data still exists in the Program Guide. I forced a guide update -- nothing changed.

Finally, I went to the "Canceled and Deleted" section to look at why things on those six channels that should have recorded didn't. Without exception, they all had the explanation of "Not recorded (not aired)." What the heck?! It just so happened that when I was making my "let's play at troubleshooting" attempts, a show that should have been recording wasn't and showed as "not aired." I flipped to the channel and the correct show and episode were airing. Since then, there have been quite a few recording failures where I've been able to absolutely confirm that the shows did air. It seems those little channel logo icons trump the actual Program Guide data?

Since I first noticed the problem on Saturday AM, one of the MIA channel logo icons reappeared on its own (I think it was later Saturday or early Sunday), yet shows scheduled to record still failed to record with the erroneous "Not recorded (not aired)" explanation.

So, does anyone have any suggestions? Some of the individual episodes that failed to record in that time have since aired, and I was able to individually schedule them to record -- that seems to have been successful.

I thought about just deleting the scheduled Series and rescheduling them, but in addion to being a huge PITA, I don't know if I'd have to delete them again and reschedule them again when things get fixed on Moxi's -- or maybe Tribune's -- end? Plus, quite a few Series that I have scheduled to record are between seasons, so I wouldn't be able to set those up for a few months until episodes start airing again, so there's the distinct possibility that I could miss a lot.

Finally, I had another perhaps related, perhaps unrelated recording glitch Monday night. I have Revolution (NBC HD) scheduled to record as a series; it currently airs on Monday nights. The NBC HD channel is not one of those suffering from a MIA channel logo icon. Because I missed out on some of the initial episodes (which I subsequently watched elsewhere), the series was set to accept Repeats and keep 20 episodes or something like that. As some may know, last week's episode wasn't aired by NBC to provide special coverage of tragic bombing in Boston. In my market, the NBC affiliates chose to air reruns of Jeopardy or something like that. Since Revolution still showed in the Program Guide data, the Moxi recorded that hour, which was deleted that night. Flash forward to this Monday -- an hour or so before Revolution was to start, we were scrolling through the Program Guide. I noticed that Revolution didn't have the little circle to indicate it would record. WTF?! I hit "record this episode," and it did, but why wasn't it going to record as scheduled? I double-checked the Program Guide data, and it wasn't listed as a repeat (which shouldn't have mattered anyway) , so I just don't get it. I do know that the Moxi won't record a duplicate episode if it already has the episode recorded, but this wasn't the case. It looks like it will record as scheduled next Monday, but I'll be double-checking just in case. Or, maybe I'll just delete the Series recording and reschedule it -- that's early enough to do for one show -- but I'd like to understand what happened.

I'll appreciate any insight!
Saudra,

Revolution did not record for me as well. TWC NYC. I suspect either a flag was dropped by TWC or was not read by the Moxi though I'm leaning to lay fault at the feet of TWC.

.J
post #5885 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Revolution reschedule caused failed recordings for multiple users, even those not using Moxi. See the Revolution programming thread. It failed for me too.

TWC is to blame for the majority of my failed recordings. Either the TA craps out and fails to sync the channel or in some cases it's recorded an entirely different channel because they've switched assignments around again and the information has not been fed to the card.

if they've changed frequencies of the channels, I would unplug both TA and moxi, plug up moxi and wait for the picture to display, and then plug up TA.
post #5886 of 6199
Does anyone know what happens if you use the Unhook Esata command? Does it copy the stuff of external back to internal or does it lose those files that are on external?
TIA
Tee Jay
post #5887 of 6199
it loses files on external until u reconnect it.
post #5888 of 6199
Thanks for the replies -- I appreciate them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

That said, I think we Moxi users are experiencing weirdisms and glitchiness that reflect that fact that because of Arris's ignorance, the software has not been updated in over three years.

I completely agree! That fixes for known problems were never done prior to abandonment was bad enough, but the hits just keep coming (see my rant at the end about the latest). Warts & all, I loved our Moxis, but silly me, I never expected the retail product to be abandoned shortly after purchase -- after several months of careful consideration, I drank the Moxi Kool-Aid in 5/2010 with the purchase to two 3-tuner units, two Mates, and two USB tuners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz2k View Post

do you have a tuning adapter, etc. on your moxi? its weird that both 3 tuners exhibit same behavior. in regards to support, I usually call them back as it seems there is only 1 or 2 people working with us. The last few times I've called in the last several months..i know I've gotten the same person but he knows what he is doing thank goodness. smile.gif

No TA required in this market. Thank goodness smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Revolution reschedule caused failed recordings for multiple users, even those not using Moxi. See the Revolution programming thread. It failed for me too.

TWC is to blame for the majority of my failed recordings. Either the TA craps out and fails to sync the channel or in some cases it's recorded an entirely different channel because they've switched assignments around again and the information has not been fed to the card.

LOL -- I had no idea there was a Revolution programming thread! I've never poked around here much because I'm definitely not a techie kind of person & the threads I did look into (building a home theater PC, for instance) were completely over my head!

For anyone interested, my recording failures were apparently caused by TWC changing from Atlantic or east coast to Pacific or west coast feeds. I obviously don't understand the technical details of what that means when identical programs & episodes are on at the exact same time for both feeds. For instance, when the TNT feed got switched a couple of years back & The Closer moved from 10 PM to 7 PM, I could understand why that created a problem. No so this time, but whatever -- I'm going to have to reschedule 15 or so series that are currently airing episodes . . . and hope that for the other 10 or so series that aren't currently airing (i.e, Downton Abbey, Breaking Bad, etc.), I don't miss getting them scheduled when they start airing again.

However, what really troubled me about this exchange with Moxi tech support is the missing-and-not-coming-back-anytime-soon channel logos in the Program Guide and what that means -- or doesn't mean -- about continuing support for the Program Guide. I'm happy to share the email exchanges if anyone is interested -- I don't want to misstate the explanation, which I honestly didn't understand -- but since there were several exchanges, I don't want to clog up this thread if there's no interest. So, I'll try to summarize, but please be aware that unless I'm directly quoting, my understanding may well be flawed.

I asked when the missing channel logo icons would be back in the Program guide, and this was the repsonse:
Quote:
We do not deploy logos for the individual channels unless our cable partners put in a request to do so, to prevent conflicting or outdated artwork, therefore we do not have an ETA on when the logos will be deployed.

I should clarify that the newly missing logos aren't for little local or regional channels -- they are for relatively big cable channels like OWN, Animal Planet HD, Discovery HD, TLC HD, AMC HD, and so forth. The channel logos existed before the feed change -- we're not talking about any new channels.

Idiot that I am, I thought I was the customer, but whatever. So, I got on the phone with TWC, got the call escallated to someone who was happy to submit the request & just wanted the specifics on how to submit it to Moxi.

It turns out, though, that TWC isn't a Moxi "cable partner," either, in spite of the fact that it's TWC's CC that's required for the Moxi to work in this market -- we have no choice. Exactly who is it Moxi means, then, that must submit the request?
Quote:
Time Warner Cable is not a customer of our video products at this time, so they will not provide us with these types of requests. Our cable partners (customers) that use our program guide data also lease our cable Moxi and Whole Home Solution products, and are managed by a different group.

Besides, it's purely an aesthetic issue -- those channel logos mean nothing. I guess I'm just some kind of mentally deficient person for not being able to memorize which network goes with each of a couple of hundred channels. I guess I'll have to get busy making flash cards to try to memorize things. While it's just 30 or so channels missing logos now, the number will apparently continue to grow each time TWC makes a change. Yikes.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but the above seems to make it pretty clear to me that those of us who shelled out money for retail Moxis no longer matter even a little bit. In the past, I seem to recall folks here submitting support tickets to Moxi about missing channel logos and having Moxi fix missing logos, but that apparently won't be happening any more.

I didn't have the stomach to ask what would happen if there were errors in the Program Guide of the kind I've experienced in the past when changing from an east coast to west coast feed changed the actual times shows were aired . . .

I know some here have expressed concerns about how long the Program Guide will be around, but I personally haven't been overly concerned until now.

Saundra
post #5889 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

Besides, it's purely an aesthetic issue -- those channel logos mean nothing. I guess I'm just some kind of mentally deficient person for not being able to memorize which network goes with each of a couple of hundred channels. I guess I'll have to get busy making flash cards to try to memorize things. While it's just 30 or so channels missing logos now, the number will apparently continue to grow each time TWC makes a change. Yikes.
Saundra

Saundra,

Don't feel badly. Rather than memorize the mapping of all umpteen channels to their numerical equivalents I too use the logos from time to time. I'm surprised you guys were using an East Coast feed given how far west you are. You've made a considerable investment in DVR equipment. Do you know if you've broken even? I have but I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the Tivo solution however it'll take me a bit less than 3 and a half years to hit the break even point. With 4K TV service on the horizon I'm leery of buying into another high end DVR system which may soon become obsolete.

Bring back those logos.

J
post #5890 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

Besides, it's purely an aesthetic issue -- those channel logos mean nothing. I guess I'm just some kind of mentally deficient person for not being able to memorize which network goes with each of a couple of hundred channels. I guess I'll have to get busy making flash cards to try to memorize things. While it's just 30 or so channels missing logos now, the number will apparently continue to grow each time TWC makes a change. Yikes.
Saundra

Saundra,

Don't feel badly.

She says nothing about problems with her fingers. {In other words, it should be "...don't feel bad..." Common mistake.}
post #5891 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Saundra,

Don't feel badly. Rather than memorize the mapping of all umpteen channels to their numerical equivalents I too use the logos from time to time. I'm surprised you guys were using an East Coast feed given how far west you are. You've made a considerable investment in DVR equipment. Do you know if you've broken even? I have but I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the Tivo solution however it'll take me a bit less than 3 and a half years to hit the break even point. With 4K TV service on the horizon I'm leery of buying into another high end DVR system which may soon become obsolete.

Bring back those logos.

J

As it turns out, the notion of a break even point is highly subjective smile.gif In our house, that will never happen because, according to my dh, he still (mostly) uses our ReplayTVs. I was able to take one RTV out of service, but he still needs to use the other four regularly, plus one cable box (I was able to ditch the second cable box with the Moxis). He says he honestly can't tell the difference between SD & HD. I, however, definitely can & have no interest in going back to RTVs except for the recorded content I archive to NAS (cooking shows, quilting shows, documentaries) & the sports & political stuff he wants to keep. And, let me tell you, there would be heck to pay if he couldn't also occassionally tap into the Moxis for recording on nights like tonight when he's got all four RTVs recording who knows what & still needed a couple of other shows recorded. But, he looks at the Moxi equipment as unneeded in the first place, so there will never be a break even point in his book. Fortunately for him, he has the wisdom to not dispute my tech decisions.

I sure don't get why we were apparently on east coast feeds all this time for those channels, and I guess I'm still not completely sure that's actually what happened. For most of the affected channels, I wasn't currently recording first-run or prime time series for the most part, so it's possible that if the same episode of a show was aired at, for instance, 2 PM & 5 PM, it's possible I just didn't notice that I was recording the second repeat of the day. None of the "first run" series I record on those channels are currently airing, so I can't confirm that was the case. With OWN, however, I'm pretty suspicious there wasn't any change from an east coast feed to a west coast one because the current prime time first run shows I record on that cable network are on at the same time I've been watching them all season. Plus, that network logo only temporarily disappeared -- it was gone & back in a very short time over the weekend. That, I think, was probably . . . something other than a feed change, but it screwed all my scheduled series recordings nonetheless.

I'm right there with you on being hesitant about investing in another expensive DVR solution with 4K right around the corner as well. Plus, I really don't know how I could justify the cost even to myself! At the Moxi time, Tivo wasn't an option because, IIRC, there wasn't a streaming option, so one had to watch recorded content in the room the particular box was in . . . at least, with TWC because it apparently encrypts (or whatever) virtually everything. And, there were several analog-only channels we'd lose -- now, I think we're down to only one or two that aren't simulcast that I could get elsewhere as needed. It seems to me I read that Tivos became able able to stream in the last year or so, but I still think the equipment we'd need for a whole house solution (around $1000 for two Premier XL4s or whatever and two Minis) plus the crazy monthly or lifetime service fees (around $500/year or around $1200 for "lifetime" for equipment that will quickly become obsolete). I'm sure Tivos are fine, but I'm really annoyed that the retail Moxi was just abandoned. I don't have much personal experience with Tivos (just played around with friends & helped with troubleshooting), but I seriously found the Moxi to be a more robust product at the time . . . perhaps as close to perfect as I could have imagined if only they'd kept working on the known issues. Then, I was very excited about Ceton's Q & Echo (IIRC) as potential replacements, but while I guess the Echo made it to market, the Q died in development.

Ah, well -- the Moxis & Mates - warts & all - are still hanging in there for now. I just need to get busy memorizing channel numbers & their corresponding networks!

And, in trying to find some bright spot after finding out for myself that Moxi has really pretty much abandoned those of us with retail units (if they can't even handle something simple like putting existing channel logos back, I'm not sure what possible assistance they have to offer me?), I suppose there's no reason not to crack the boxes and put in larger hard drives. Well, no reason other than fear of messing things up . . . and not being quite sure how I can ever get all the stuff already recorded all watched wink.gif I suppose I need to focus on watching everything on one and recording only on the second & then repeat.

Hey -- does anyone know how things work with replacing the internal HD when external drives have also been used? Back in my early Moxi days, I'm 85% certain I recall moving the same external drives between the two Moxis. Then, I moved to dedicated external drives for each & have two or three filled for each Moxi, in addition to the currently attached external drives. Then, I decided I was crazy & decided to limit saved recordings to what will fit on the current internal & external hard drives when several months went by & I decided it was pretty darn inconvenient to keep swapping a full external drive into the enclosure -- things are sooo much more convenient with the RTV recorded stuff I have stored on my three network attached drives, which I access all the time through the Moxis. I have quasi-decent lists on the HDD storage boxes for what's on each full Moxi external drive.

By replacing the internal drives, will I lose the ability to access what's on those filled external drives? What about the stuff that's recorded on the currently attached external drives?
post #5892 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

Ah, well -- the Moxis & Mates - warts & all - are still hanging in there for now. I just need to get busy memorizing channel numbers & their corresponding networks!

And, in trying to find some bright spot after finding out for myself that Moxi has really pretty much abandoned those of us with retail units (if they can't even handle something simple like putting existing channel logos back, I'm not sure what possible assistance they have to offer me?), I suppose there's no reason not to crack the boxes and put in larger hard drives. Well, no reason other than fear of messing things up . . . and not being quite sure how I can ever get all the stuff already recorded all watched wink.gif I suppose I need to focus on watching everything on one and recording only on the second & then repeat.

Hey -- does anyone know how things work with replacing the internal HD when external drives have also been used? Back in my early Moxi days, I'm 85% certain I recall moving the same external drives between the two Moxis. Then, I moved to dedicated external drives for each & have two or three filled for each Moxi, in addition to the currently attached external drives. Then, I decided I was crazy & decided to limit saved recordings to what will fit on the current internal & external hard drives when several months went by & I decided it was pretty darn inconvenient to keep swapping a full external drive into the enclosure -- things are sooo much more convenient with the RTV recorded stuff I have stored on my three network attached drives, which I access all the time through the Moxis. I have quasi-decent lists on the HDD storage boxes for what's on each full Moxi external drive.

By replacing the internal drives, will I lose the ability to access what's on those filled external drives? What about the stuff that's recorded on the currently attached external drives?

you could print or request a channel lineup guide (from your provider website or by calling to have one mailed). The channels change location from time to time but it's better than memorizing channel numbers & their corresponding networks! There were several major cable companies that had/have moxi so we'll have to research that because logos are important.

from my experience, noted recently in hard drive replacement thread, the external hard drives recordings will only work on the original moxi it was formatted with. ex. I connected external to another moxi and it wanted to reformat external hard drive. I quickly returned that external to the original box smile.gif. However, someone stated that the external hard drive recordings will survive if you have to replace internal hard drive for that said box. The only way to know what is on internal hard drive is to do a manual count and them perform the 'disconnect external hard drive' from the settings menu.
post #5893 of 6199
With the Arris acquistion-merger with the Motorla STB business, investments with/by Google and Comcast, pretty sure we will likely never see a "retail" DVR from Arris. I bet even the TiVO is not long for the retail market based on these M&As and the strangle hold that these companies will have on consumers. The FCC is a pretty worthless governing body and not a friend to consumers. Wonder how long the Cable Card support that is mandated now will be in place ??

The Moxi's as we know them are worthless without the guide services. The Arris attempt a while back to "sun set" that support was a feeler to see how Moxi owners would react (which we did). In reading this thread the trend seems to be people giving up on their Moxi's and seeking other solutons. TIme shifting and playback to avoid lengthy commercials (HD or SD) is still my main usage as I have not been too motivated to go the VOD route from internet sources (paid services or not). And, I hate the idea of having to "rent" these devices indefinitely with any cable or satellite services provider so it is likely I would go the internet fed VOD path (as long as the content providers make available their shows to those entities).

For now, I will continue to use these boxes (we have 2 3-Ts and a Mate) as long as we can.....
post #5894 of 6199
More Moxi Woes

It must be my time to have nothing but trouble, but I'm incredibly annoyed again and wondering if anyone has any opinion as to whether a failing internal drive could present as deleting its recordings?

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time I've had this experience, but sometime over the last 48 hours, the 3-tuner Moxi in the bedroom again dumped a slew of recorded shows all on its own. Here's a link to the first time this happened in 12/2011. Note: I'm still using the same stock internal HD and the same 2 TB external drive and enclosure that were in use at that time. It's the identical setup I've got in the living room, including the external drive & enclosure . . . exact same models. The living room Moxi, which is our heavy use unit, has never had an issue with deleting recorded content all on its own. The only other change I've made is that following the problem in 12/2011, I've added UPS for both setups. Since there never was any reasonable explanation -- at least to me -- about what caused the problem in 12/2011, I thought perhaps there had been a power glitch of some kind that had mucked things up & added UPS units just in case.

And, I've gotten a little smarter since that initial problem in that I periodically (once every 3-4 weeks) disconnect the external drive, write down what's recorded on the internal drive, hook up the external drive, and write down what's on that. [It's actually the external drive contents I want to keep track of in case it gets filled & I need to add another external drive.] The last time I did it was on 4/5, and at that time, the internal drive was 96-97% full. Since then, my overall capacity was in the 60-65% full range pretty consistently.

In any case, I've spent a lot of time over the past week looking at my Moxis because of the failed recordings saga. I'm 100% certain certain recorded content existed Friday, and I'm 100% certain recorded shows had disappeared by early yesterday evening, but exactly when the recorded content disappeared between those times, I don't know.

Once again, all of the recorded content on the internal drive disappeared eek.gif Most if not all of the stuff recorded on the external drive survived -- I'm not seeing anything missing from the 4/5 external drive list other than what I know I intentionally deleted, although it's possible something recorded since then is missing that I'm not recalling. The combo of the empty internal drive + what's on the external drive puts my storage capacity at 40% full. The Canceled & Deleted log wasn't particularly helpful -- it seems to hold around 275 "past" events, and because of all the recording failures due to the recent change from east to west coast feeds for several channels, the log was pretty filled with those failures (as well as episodes that weren't recorded because they were duplicates), but the few entries for the shows that the Moxi deleted on its own were "expired and deleted," if that means anything to anyone. Note: shows recorded on the internal drive that disappeared were scheduled to keep unlimited episodes, so I haven't a clue what "expired and deleted" means.

So, I'm back to wondering what the heck causes such a catastrophic failure?! I'm not inclined to call tech support again because they'll blame it -- again -- on the external drive. I suppose I was more willing to swallow that explanation the first time around, but after this time . . . not so much. I don't see why a problem with the external drive would cause all recordings on the internal drive to be deleted but at the same time preserve all (or virtually all) the recordings on the external drive? Of course, I'm not a tech person, but I'm definitely interested in understanding a theory under which that would be a reasonable explanation.

Or, if the connection to the external drive were somehow interrupted (something I'm sure I'd have noticed, but let's pretend) & the Moxi needed to delete stuff to make space for new recordings because the internal drive was full, I could see some recordings having to be deleted, but everything?! That just doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. And even if that were the case, then why are there no recordings on the internal drive?

I'd also like to understand why this had now happened twice to the Moxi setup in the bedroom and never to the identical Moxi setup in the living room that gets a lot more use? We were unlucky with both of our original Moxis as both had serious defects that required them to be replaced under warranty within the first couple of months. I swear, I'm starting to think there's some kind of fuzzy Doomsday software bug in the bedroom Moxi! The first time this happened, it was on day 485 after activation, and this time, it was 508 days after the first time.

Seriously, though -- this is really ticking me off because I just don't Get It. It doesn't seem too plausible to me that if there was a problem with either hard drive, the drive would continue to function for 500 more days, does it? And, since this seems to be the identical problem as before (only this time I know the internal drive was completely wiped while the external drive recorded content -- or the vast, vast majority of it -- remained intact, I really want to understand the cause so I can prevent any recurrence.

So, I'll appreciate any thoughts folks may care to share!

On the plus side, since the internal drive now has no recorded shows, this would seem to be a great time to replace that drive smile.gif Assuming that replacing the internal drive won't make access to the recorded shows on the external drive inaccessible eek.gif

But, to add insult to injury, those missing channel logos I was complaining about are still appearing in the Canceled and Deleted section mad.gif If they can still appear there, why oh why can't they still be in the Program Guide?!

Saundra
post #5895 of 6199
@sslund: Before you replace the internal hdd, lets think for a moment. It doesn't sound like there was any other issue with it upon reboot nor while using it to record/watch tv. You stated your internal hard drive was 96-97% full when you disconnect external hard drive but max 65% when both are connected. Robert Duncan mentioned the horrible auto deletion of internal hdd programs when the external hdd went offline/disconnected in a Nov 2010 post. In a best case, it shouldnt record anything when you state keep until I delete and hard drive is full. It concerns me that recordings were deleted twice in your case so I try not to disconnect external hdd again until the moxi power is unplugged and will reconnect it before powering up the moxi. If I have to do such a thing, i'm going to reconnect the external and then reboot moxi because it did this when I initialized the external hdd for the first time. I know that the moxi looks for space on future dated recordings well in advance with it probably ranging to the 13 day guide. Another option would be to go with the suggestion that said keep a 60GB-80GB internal hdd so that in the event of a disaster such as this..85% of recordings is on external hdd. As far as channel logos, if you go to your moxi channel lineup @ the moxi site, what you see there is what you'll get w/o moxi/provider intervention.

@Duck05: id like to think the fcc helped cable card devices come to the market and even inquired for us with the dreadful guide notice. i received an email back stating arris updated the site otherwise. hopefully they will continue to require use of such devices in the future so we have options.
Edited by dz2k - 5/6/13 at 9:25pm
post #5896 of 6199
Hello,
I have a 2T Moxi and a recently purchased 3T Moxi. The hard drive is failing on the 2T model. I can still play most things. Is there a way to transfer all the recording settings to the 3T model. I can do it manually, except for the programs that are off the air for the summer. Otherwise I will have to make sure I program the settings in before each season opener starts. I just want to transfer the recording schedule.
What is a good internal drive for the 2T and the 3T? What current drives work and what is the largest size capable for each model? Lastly, what is a good large external drive that will work on either Moxi?
My 1st Moxi was put in service in June of 2009 and the drive is just now starting to act up. My external drive, a 1.5TB WD Green, failed last week after almost 3 years of trouble free service.
Thanks
post #5897 of 6199
youll have to do it manually, except for the programs that are off the air for the summer. the hard drive replacement thread has good info on the other matter.
Edited by dz2k - 5/1/13 at 8:11pm
post #5898 of 6199
I've posted before about the poor sensitivity of the Moxi tuners compared to my HDTV's built in tuners. Just wondering if anyone has had any luck with putting a preamplifier in front of a Moxi to "fix" this? There are several clear-QAM channels on my cable system that are hit-or-miss to get on the Moxi but solid on the TV's frown.gif .
post #5899 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz2k View Post

@Duck05: id like to think the fcc helped cable card devices come to the market and even inquired for us with the dreadful guide notice..
True, the FCC mandated Cable Cards to allow consumers to have "choices".... But, how many "third party" retail devices do you know support Cable Cards today??? My two Pioneer TVs have Cable Card slots but I have never been able to get them to work reliably (due to Pioneer's weak solution) and there is very little if almost no support for this. Worse, the FCC continues to allow cable service providers more and more concessions to drive clear channels on the "wire" away, disable and pretty much make worthless builtin QAM tuners for HD channels, and let the cable service providers force inferioir cable boxes and DVRs and let's them charge their monthly fees.

I am a tad "bitter" since I had to retire 3 still-working-perfectly-good analog DVRs that while old still performed time shifting duties. The 2nd Moxi was acquired on eBay to replace these units (when Comcast started to digitize and encrypt their signals) and no where was there an FCC around to protect the consumer (and I did lodge a complaint and discovered how worthless they are....).
post #5900 of 6199
tru. there are limited "third party" devices but i'm happy with my solution. Wow, that is cool you have cable card slots in your TV's and I suppose if it's hd capable, it would pick up all channels with the cc inserted. It's unfortunate that didn't work out. I also see cable cards in the leased mso devices too although the slot may be covered. I agree that more and more concessions are being made for other technologies but it seems that cc are still getting the expected limited support.
Edited by dz2k - 5/5/13 at 2:10am
post #5901 of 6199
Last night I lost all the icons for the channels, including the generic Moxi logo. I rebooted, reinstalled the card and TA and they still have not returned.

Amusingly I turned on the TV just now to see if Arrow was recording correctly and found my Moxi thought it was in my best interests to completely erase all of my other recordings.

So that's given me some free time! biggrin.gif

Since the drive is now empty I'm pondering whether to perform a drive transplant or coast along with the current one despite some of the bad recordings it's been making.
post #5902 of 6199
The internal hard drive in my 2T MOXI wasn't failing after all. I replaced the external drive, and it appears to be OK. I also added a external drive to my newer 3T MOXI. I used the WD AV-GP 2 TB AV Video Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA II, 64 MB Cache - WD20EURS in both MOXI, and they both worked OK. I'm running both MOXI side by side. I put some Velcro around the Ir sensor, and then put some on a plastic card. I just cover up one MOXI's Ir sensor so that only one gets the signal. I've been doing this for about a week and I've only had one gripe. If I'm watching video that's coming from one MOXI to the other, The FF and REW work poorly. Other than that, It appears OK. .
post #5903 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Last night I lost all the icons for the channels, including the generic Moxi logo. I rebooted, reinstalled the card and TA and they still have not returned.

Amusingly I turned on the TV just now to see if Arrow was recording correctly and found my Moxi thought it was in my best interests to completely erase all of my other recordings.

So that's given me some free time! biggrin.gif

Since the drive is now empty I'm pondering whether to perform a drive transplant or coast along with the current one despite some of the bad recordings it's been making.

wow, I hate you lost the recordings. the first thing I noticed with a drive replacement was a speed increase. I don't know if it was because it had more rpm and cache but it was welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakforest View Post

The internal hard drive in my 2T MOXI wasn't failing after all. I replaced the external drive, and it appears to be OK. I also added a external drive to my newer 3T MOXI. I used the WD AV-GP 2 TB AV Video Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA II, 64 MB Cache - WD20EURS in both MOXI, and they both worked OK. I'm running both MOXI side by side. I put some Velcro around the Ir sensor, and then put some on a plastic card. I just cover up one MOXI's Ir sensor so that only one gets the signal. I've been doing this for about a week and I've only had one gripe. If I'm watching video that's coming from one MOXI to the other, The FF and REW work poorly. Other than that, It appears OK. .

glad to hear that. please post the success in the hard drive replacement thread too. also post if you use external enclosure or just hdd itself.
post #5904 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz2k View Post

wow, I hate you lost the recordings. the first thing I noticed with a drive replacement was a speed increase. I don't know if it was because it had more rpm and cache but it was welcome.

Luckily I had already caught up with the most important shows so what was left was things I was in no rush to watch. Some of those will appear on Netflix and HBOGo etc. so I can catch up.

Replacing the drive is becoming my preferred option. I have nothing to lose now and it will save me fighting for space at some point in the future. One way or another, I can see the current drive biting it again or my recordings being wiped. Might as well try a new drive to see if it does the same. The stock drive has lasted far longer than most here, so I can't be too pissed that it might be about to cave in.
post #5905 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Last night I lost all the icons for the channels, including the generic Moxi logo. I rebooted, reinstalled the card and TA and they still have not returned.

Amusingly I turned on the TV just now to see if Arrow was recording correctly and found my Moxi thought it was in my best interests to completely erase all of my other recordings.

So that's given me some free time! biggrin.gif

Since the drive is now empty I'm pondering whether to perform a drive transplant or coast along with the current one despite some of the bad recordings it's been making.

OMG -- please teach me your Zen attitude smile.gif The first time I lost recordings, I was highly annoyed; the second time, I was less annoyed, but I'm still somewhat POed because some of the recorded shows won't be elsewhere.

Hmmm -- can you clarify what you mean by bad recordings?

I've still not made a decision about whether or not to replace the hard drive on the Moxi that dumped everything on the internal drive a couple of weeks back. My hesitation is that I lost a slew of recorded stuff on the same internal drive over a year before this recent instance, so I guess I'm not completely convinced it's a symptom of "impending" drive failure. And, while I've cracked the cases on all of my ReplayTV DVRs to replace hard drives and/or power supplies, there's the fear of the unknown with doing so for the Moxi. Too, it seems that the 4FP doesn't always work smoothly, and with my luck, I'll be one of those for whom the replacement doesn't happen without tons of angst wink.gif

Assuming you've got better luck than do I, I think replacing the hard drive is definitely the way to go, especially given Moxi's recent lack of support (i.e., newly missing channel logos) even for cases that haven't been cracked. I'm particularly interested in the speed increase dz2k commented on -- I've noticed a real increased sluggishness on both of my Moxis (both replacements for original equipment failures purchased in 5/2010; one has been in use since 6/2010 & the other was replaced in 8/2010 after failure in 7/2010) that I had been attributing to perhaps drives hitting some magic threshold of x% being full, but I got my "good" (never had a problem since replacement in 6/2010) Moxi down to 40% full / 60% empty, rebooted it, and the sluggishness remains. Too, I've been noticing some recording glitches (intermittent pixelization, very short freezes of audio/video, etc) that I thought were perhaps due to poor signal strength. Now, though, I'm wondering . . .
post #5906 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

OMG -- please teach me your Zen attitude smile.gif The first time I lost recordings, I was highly annoyed; the second time, I was less annoyed, but I'm still somewhat POed because some of the recorded shows won't be elsewhere.

Hmmm -- can you clarify what you mean by bad recordings?

Over the past year I've encountered recordings that have either dropped a couple of frames, shows would start freezing at specific points (jumping around the part allowed me to watch the rest) or the worst - the show has seemingly recorded but on playback the image would pixelate and then randomly skip through the entire recording. Symptoms I've never encountered watching live TV so I cannot blame TWC for that.

I always saw that as a sign that there are some bad blocks on the drive or the drive has corrupted data somehow. I did a factory reset yesterday (after I watched the few new shows I recorded) and wiped the drive again. That restored the missing icons. I would guess that the custom channel icons and other local data that existed on the drive previously had been corrupted too.

Interestingly after the drive wipe, the system does seem more responsive again. Even with the old drive. But I'm still going to swap it out next week.

One thing which I had to do on factory reset was disable my router firewall to connect to the Moxi server. I don't remember if I had to do that last time but it would not connect otherwise.

I only lost a few movies (on HBOGo and repeated elsewhere), a couple of sitcom episodes, half a season of The Following (which I wasn't that interested in anyway) and entire seasons of Hell on Wheels and The Good Wife which I was saving for summer. Both of those I can watch online on various devices at some point. I had already caught up with all my favorite shows luckily. With so many options to watch shows now, losing them isn't as bad as it used to be.

edit: forgot to add, no external drive in use here. Never had one hooked up so any faults here cannot be attributed to that popular tech support excuse.
Edited by VisionOn - 5/16/13 at 3:19pm
post #5907 of 6199
@VisionOn: do you have any recordings set to delete after X days or keep until space is needed? I personally have everything set to keep until I delete it manually. I saw someone said the moxi engineers communicated ( back in 2010 i think was the year) that if moxi detects corrupt hard drive on reboot..it will delete all recordings no matter the settings. I don't know what to say but I know when my hard drive failed..i couldn't get past moxi is checking your hard drive.
post #5908 of 6199
I keep the defaults at unlimited episodes with manual deletions. Auto managing the space is too unpredictable.
post #5909 of 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I keep the defaults at unlimited episodes with manual deletions. Auto managing the space is too unpredictable.

@VisionOn: I agree. do you have the 3 tuner model? it seems some of the posts in this thread have 3 tuners which lost recordings.
post #5910 of 6199
A 3T. I don't think you can attribute failed recordings to that particular model. It's just the 3T was the one that most people bought when it dropped in price.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Moxi HD DVR