Peachtree Audio - Page 59

Hello,

I am currently reading this thread (did not catch up yet) and I am interested in buying a Decco2 (as preamp/DAC).

Currently I am listening to 2ch via my Sonos connected (Spdif) to my Yamaha 3800 AVR but I would like to upgrade in this regard as I feel the sound quality could be better. I have two Marantz mono amps (MA 700) for my fronts and a Subwoofer with low level pass which I would like to use in the 2ch scenario (Fronts play full range +Subwoofer).

How would I integrate a Decco2 into the Homecinema setup? Would I use a Switcher to switch between 2ch and Homecinema use?

Any help is really appreciated.

Thanks
N.

Should first start the simplest scenario based on a DACIt:
- Sonos to DACIt through Toslink
- DACIt to one of the level line inputs of your Yammy AVR

I don't know if your AVR has "power amp" inputs (to take benefit from the Preamp stage of the Decco2), but if not, you would have to use a PeachTree integrated equipped with the "HC Mode". I know the Nova has it, don't know for the Decco2.
For HC, then the AVR would be connected (line level) to the PeachTree integrated, and the PeachTree integrated connected to your power-amps (preamp output).
For Sonos, then the PeachTree integrated will act as DAC and preamplifier, and you would get power-amplification by your MA blocks.
The only problem here is that you'd lose the subwoofer, simply because it would have also to be connected to the preamp output of the PeachTree integration.
So if you want your poweramp blocks, your subwoofer, and the quality of PeachTree DACs, better go for the DACIt.

Thank you for the quick response! The problem is that the Yamaha AVR will digitalize everything which comes into it, unless I use PureDirect which means I loose the Sub. Anyway my whole goal was to circumvent the AVR and make a 2Ch setup which would be integrated into the HC setup.

Any other ideas? I could hook the subwoofer to the pre-outs simultaneously with the fronts via Y cable couldn't I ?

I doubt the RVX will "digitalize", and rather pre-amplify directly what will come through line-level inputs (I was talking of taking the RCA outputs from the DACIt to RCA inputs of the RVX - such as the "CD analog input" -). It's however true that you'll then get through the RVX preamp stage, which is not that great compared to the Decco2 one.

But going the other route, as far as I know, will cause you additional issues.
Think is you will have to control the volume level.

So when connecting the Sonos to the Decco2, then the Decco2 to your MA power blocks, the volume will be controlled by the Decco2, right?
But when connecting the RVX to the Decco2 (to get the left/right channels and route it to the MA power blocks), then the Decco2 volume knob will also control the volume for left / right.
You see the trouble here: you will have to change the volume for HiFi / HomeTheater on the Decco2.
This is due to the absence of the "Home Theater Bypass" on the Decco2, contrary to the Nova (as an example).

The idea of a "switch" for the L/F loudpseakers is not great, for two reasons:
- even high-end switches are not really transparent (they will add noise, reduce dynamics, and create in some cases impedance issues)
- when switching (except for digital switches, which are very hard to find) there will be some loopback current going from one amp to the other one, and this is very bad (and there could even be some loopback current if switching while the two amps are off)

Now if you'd find a solution for a HT Bypass equipped PeachTree integrated amp, you'd still have the subwoofer question.
I suppose you want to use the subwoofer both for HiFi and HT uses.
For the best HT experience, the sub has to be connected to the .1 output, to benefit from the dedicated sub tracks from movies.
You could for sure connect it to the PeachTree integrated, but then you'd loose this track, and only get the sub parts of the Left / Right channels.
To connect the subwoofer to the PeachTree outputs, you should not use Y cables with the goal of "splitting" the signal from the preamp outputs to the sub and to the power blocks. Simply because Y cables are passive, and do not control how much signal is send to each output, and do not forbid loopback signals between the two outputs.
I don't know your subwoofer model, but in many cases there is a "loudspeaker level" input. Such input is used to place the subwoofer between the poweramps and the L/R speakers, so in your case between your MA blocks and your L/R loudpspeakers.

My advice for you would be the following:
- keep the sub connected to your RVX
- keep the MA blocks connected to your RVX
- plug the Sonos to a nice PeachTree DAC
- plug this DAC to your RVX

You'll loose a better preamp stage, but you have a great amp stage, you'll get a phenomenal DAC stage (and believe me, the Sonos internal DAC cannot have any word compared to a PeachTree DAC), you'll not change your HT sound (which should be great) ... and you'll not have a user-non-friendly setup to switch from HiFi to HT listening.

It was only my 2 cents.

True, you can drink the "Golden DAC" Kool Aid, but if you want real improvements in sound quality you probably have other far better options.

What about room acoustics?

Thank you for you helpful replies Wproto & Arny. I have already invested in room accoustics and measuered everything with REW. My response is smooth and my bass tamed (I also have an Anti-Mode).

I have bought a Parasound 2100 and will look into getting my hands on an Dac IT. Does it have the same DAC as the Nova?

The Dac IT seems to get a more recent Sabre chipset than the first Nova.
David should be the best person for giving you some more detailed answer.

Btw, David, what about my question on adding some A220 to a Nova to boost the lower end part but not changing the warm sounding from the Nova?
As mentioned, I'm really pleased with the Nova sound, but am just lacking some bass control. And if going to replace the Nova by a Pre, then I'd rather go the Grand Integrated route, although having to wait some months to get the budget

Thanks for the reply David. I'll give it another shot. Last time I remember it sounding cold, and lacking depth. It was very noticeable compared to mini-toslink from the Macbook. I wonder if it has anything to do with the cheap USB cable im using. Then again, I really don't really want to invest in a pricey USB cable if it's not something I'll use. Sorry to veer off topic, but is there a relatively inexpensive yet decent USB cable you recommend that you know works well?

David,

Thanks for the response. I ended up purchasing a Decco65 and am loving it.

Lee,

For what its worth I did this comparison and found the sound of the DAC in the Peachtree Decco65 to be far superior to the Marantz AV7005. Compared using a Squeezebox as a source feeding both and used the Peachtree as just a DAC/Pre. Biggest difference was the veil being lifted, so to speak. The Marantz has a kinda electronic sound, like lots of digital harshness so that you can tell you are listening to electronics. This goes away with the Peachtree, and made listening much more enjoyable. Was most noticeable listening to Diana Krall.

James

I own a Grand Pre, and I have found several factors dramatically impacting the quality of the USB audio!

First, what software are you using on your computer? With my MacBook Pro, iTunes alone made my GP, Bryston and Maggies sound worse than my old college dorm room cheapo CD player feeding decades old big-box loudspeakers. When played using the BitPerfect plugin and better cables, playback improved to surpass my reference CD player. It's definitely worth testing out the various software packages with the free demos and buying the one or few that you find most enjoyable.

Second, the USB cable DOES matter! I was highly skeptical of expensive USB cables (to put it lightly), but I agreed to test several different cables just to get my dealer off my back about needing to upgrade. I'm still shocked at the results, but I am a believer after the testing I conducted. I sampled some of my best-known tracks with a generic computer cable and 6 other cables all the way up to a $650 pure silver model, and the sound changed with every cable. I found that I liked a $30 AudioQuest better than a pure silver Kimber, but I preferred another cable to both of those. So again, test every cable you can in your system and try not to buy any without listening first. You might find that it's not the most expensive cable that works best for you, but I expect you'll hear differences.

The Peachtree USB implementation is good, and it just takes a little testing to bring the rest of a system up to par.

Somewhat tangential but does VLC not allow for bypassing of the software mixer on all OSs?

One question: I am about to order a Dac*It from the Uk yet I live in Germany. Will a simple adapter suffice for the power supply? Is there any sense in exchanging the power supply with a better quality one?

Thanks,
N

Does noone know the answer?

Over at Computeraudiophiles people report improvement with this PSU: http://www.teradak.com/en/product_view.asp?ID=209

Is it feasible or shall I just buy an adapter? Will be using the Dac*It via coax from the Sonos.

Thanks,
N.

It is well known that DAC manufacturers as a rule ship their DACs with substandard power supplies so as to obtain a heavy flow of unfavorable complaints on the internet and to keep their customer service reps and retailers busy with unnecessary tech support demands. ;-)

There is no such thing as someone who will do some unnecessary upgrade of their equipment out of anxiety or desire to milk more bragging rights out of their purchases. ;-)

I have a question regarding USB cables. I assume digital data is being passed through the usb link between the peachtree pre and the computer.
Further i assume there is some error correction on data that is received from the computer by novapre. If this is true i would think there isn't any need for any expensive usb cables.

If not, then at random 0 can turn to 1 and vice versa and that will impact sound quality in which case it warrants a better cable.
Maybe David can fill in on the implementation front.

Also i now have the peachtree 220 amp hooked to the nova pre which are connected to a pair of B&W CM9's.
The speakers are new so haven't been broken in as yet, feel as though the base is less sometimes. Also lower but rate does make a noticeable difference in the sound quality in this setup (e.g. 128Kbps).

Your assumptions are sound.

There is error detection at the receiving end, but I am unsure about the error correction. The usual transmission protocols involve something like streaming so there is no opportunity for retries.

The actual most common failure mode is loss of data, which results in clicks and pops or just plain old silence. On those rare occasions where it happens It is all pretty obvious and never shows up as changes in tone or imaging. If USB works at all it works essentially perfectly. Commodity cables are perfectly adequate when used properly.

That makes sense. However if the algorithm detects errors then it has two options or paths to follow. First it can just drop that byte and second it can correct it.
If the code does not correct the word then yes it can be thrown away and might sound like exactly you have described above.

The only other thought i had after posting this was the transmission delay i.e. timing and if that is improved by a better cable. I.e. the delta between the transfer of two bytes.
I haven't tried an expensive cable as yet. Still waiting for my speakers to break in.

Btw what would you audiophile folks suggest using for determining the sound quality in the room.

Thanks for an engaging discussion.

Well my DAC*It arrived today but alas defective. I already checked with Peachtree CS on the phone. Tried coax and optical from the Sonos, no output viaanalog out.

Sonos directly into the AVR (either via coax or analog) was no problem.

I contacted the seller for an RMA.

I have the PT Pre / 220 combo and have connected an Oppo 93 to play DVD-A's and hi-res tracks from HDTracks via the digital connections. Sounds great! Then I got to thinking about my SACD collection. Of course SACD's don't pass audio over the SDPIF's so I then connected the analog out of the 93 and analog input of the Pre (btw, this meant disconnecting my turntable - PT folks, we could use another analog input!). The result of this was hum, big nasty hum - mostly likely because the Oppo is also connected to an AVR which has the usual culprit, a cable box, attached to it. I finally got the hum to go away by disconnecting all HDMIs from the Oppo leaving only audio connections to the PT Pre. I did try connecting the oppo video directly to the TV rather than to the AVR but this didn't solve the problem. Anyway, all this got me asking why do I get hum from the analog inputs but not the digital on the Pre. The answer is probably the "galvanic isolation" on the digital inputs with ground. So why isn't the analog input also galvanically isolated?

I'm about ready to punt on my SACD discs.

I think your 93 might be defective. I have an Oppo BDP-83 connected to my system with both HDMI and analog RCA. I get no hum from my 2-channel discs (including SACD's).

I have peachtree 220 connected to B&W CM9 speakers
Can this AMP blow the speakers in any way. For e.g. playing at loud volume. Does the 220 have protective measures built-in not to exceed or send excess current to the speakers.
Both are quality instruments hence i would expect them to fare better together...

Thanks,

Too little power is more dangerous than too much as this is when clipping can occur. Clipping can definitely damage your speakers. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

thanks postrokfan,
i thought clipping would happen at hig volume when higher current is sent to the speakers. Also at this time i expect the amp to clip if it cant handle the load, right.

anyone else have experience with peachtree 220, pre and cm9.

thanks postrokfan,
i thought clipping would happen at hig volume when higher current is sent to the speakers. Also at this time i expect the amp to clip if it cant handle the load, right.

anyone else have experience with peachtree 220, pre and cm9.

Is the Dac in the nova pre or nova 125 better than the dac*it dac? Also, are there any programs to make my computer audio come out via usb any better? I usually use spotify but have a lot of music i bought and use foobar for that. I use a pc not mac.
Also, i find that toslink sounds much better with my dacit than usb.
What's this i hear that the nova pre and 125 don't send 96/24 via toslink? what about coax?
This seams very unfortunate because i had planned on using an ipad and an apple tv or sonos to play my music wirelessly.
Can anyone suggest a good way to play music on my computer via usb and still control the computer with an tablet in general?

I have a nova as preamp and 220 amp with USB from an htpc. works perfect.

I have windows 7 and use J River for both audio and video. It plays anything you toss at it at the best quality with minimal effort. great for movies and tv series as well. remotes for iOS and android among others, I think.