Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.
many PJs and other displays have controls that do work as we would expect them to.
The measured gamma on the RS20 in THX mode is just fine. Not one of you would be able to watch a moving image and discern a 2.1 vs 2.2 vs 2.3 gamma.
Gregg, it would be really useful if you stopped patronising participants in this discussion.
You've been asked a direct question by Darin (post 1653) and chose not to reply. I also note that you did not provide any gamma specific information in your last installation report.
If you (or your customers) can't see the difference between 2.1 and 2.3 gamma, then please don't assume it's the same for others
THX may be acceptable to some when a specific PJ is installed, by luck, in a room which is right for it. As Tom reminded us, the PJs measure differently, probably due to unit to unit variation. If mine was giving 2.2 or 2.3, and the same dE Tom or yourself measure after color temp adjustment, I may not have the same problem with THX (although it would still be slighly undersaturated, even with color=+5).
The only thing I can see is the difference - in my bat cave - between tweaked THX and a custom preset with a gamma of 2.3 (measuring 2.2). Gamut color is less accurate, but greyscale is more accurate and the picture has much more dimensionality, and is therefore better.
You remind me of this classic French stand up comedy number where a poor guy (Fernand Reynaud) was sold an ill fitting suit by his taylor (one sleeve was clearly cut too short). The taylor, not wanting to redo the suit, was trying to convince him that it was fine. Look, if you wear it like this (completely bend), it doesn't show! He was even trying to teach his buyer how to walk so that the suit would look fine despite its obvious flaw...
I haven't bought a Porsche to be told "if you drive it at 60mph on the motorway, it works fine". I bought it because I expected to be able to drive it at 120 Mph on a circuit I specially designed for it.
You're telling me it's fine and I shouldn't complain. But I know that if it's fixed, it can do much better than that.
Now I'm waiting to see if JVC can/will fix it (the CMS, not my Porsche
I had initially chosen to (pre)buy a 350, and my dealer - who is great by the way and is doing everyhting he can to help - convinced me to upgrade to the 750 by saying I would be able - with the CMS - to get the colors exactly the way I wanted (which, in my books, doesn't mean an undersaturated gamut with approximate greyscale and too low gamma).
In my buying decision, I was getting a better PJ than a 350 and an integrated VP. THX (with the limitation of the "one size fits all" approach by nature) has always been a "backup" in my head, possibly a starting point, but definitely not what I should settle for, or I would have bought a 350. I then completely redecorated my screening room (now a complete bat cave) to make the most of the upgrade. And I ended up with the PJ we know (a great PJ, with an accurate but flat and dull THX compared to custom presets, and a broken CMS).
So I was sold a Porsche, not a Ford Mondeo, and I will, like Highlander, ask JVC for a refund, an exchange or some compensation if it's not fixed, as the PJ is not fit for purpose at present because of its flawed CMS.
However, like Highlander, I am still hopeful that the firmware will be available soon
. I have no idea what it will fix though, and I don't have any expectations in this regard. For example I don't know if it's going to offer a more flexible THX-like preset (with greyscale, gamma and sharpness control, like cinema1) or a better CMS.
I'll decide with my dealer what to do when we know what the firmware upgrade offers (or not), but in the meantime please stop telling us that there is no problem and that we should just sit down and be quiet.
I am sure it is a blow for custom installers to have so many potential customers sitting on the fence waiting to see whether the CMS is fixed or not, but if it isn't, everyone knows that the 350 and a radiance may be a more sensible option for many if not most. This is what TomH (in post 937) and CraigR (in his review of the rs20/radiance combo) for example said they would do if they had to chose between a 350 and a 750 in its present state. As far as I'm concerned, there is no way I am buying a radiance as I have already paid for some of its functionality (but didn't get it).
Many competent reviewers/installers with knowledge AND integrity have chosen NOT to discuss the subject in public - although they do in private, and can clearly see the problem you pretend doesn't exist - despite the pressure to publish a review/give an opinion. They don't want to hurt the sales even more, which is understandable as very few of them are fully independant as they are also resellers, but they are not ready either to compromise their reputation and credibility by saying all is fine because THX offers the best picture for everyone and the difference in price between the 350 and the 750 is fully justified whatever your environment and expectations.
In the meantime, lost or delayed sales are the best motivation for JVC to fix what should/could be the star PJ of custom installs, but isn't - yet - for a very good reason.