Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
Look, I understand the desire to have a CMS that does exactly what you want it do. But everybody here loved and raved about the RS2, which had no CMS capabilities at all. But one fair criticism was oversaturated primaries, however this is also advantageous because it allows an external CMS to bring that in, and some people may WANT oversaturated primaries. So JVC worked to add this for the current models, which I think is very laudable effort.
Most displays have no CMS capabilities, and then many/most of the ones that do also have significant problems in their CMS implementation.
Keeping in mind the very reasonable cost and amazing performance of the projector, I think JVC deserves more credit for listening and including a CMS, even if imperfect, in their display. Their continuing response and seeming intent to improve it if possible deserves some applause. Even if they are unable to implement the CMS perfectly in existing units, it does indicate that they may very well work to do it right next time.
And also, if having absolutely perfect gamut is crucial, there are outside processors that will achieve this for you, so it isn't as if JVC is throwing up an insurmountable obstacle to perfect color.
You also have to realize that MOST of the projectors they're selling aren't to people who are even aware that a CMS is there, and wouldn't use it or even have the capability/tools to use it *even if it functioned perfectly.*
So comparing this to a car company selling you a car without wheels is grossly
overstating the situation.
Now, if JVC had raised the price 5 thousand dollars or something for the inclusion of a CMS and it didn't work properly, then perhaps these arguments would have more merit. But there are many displays out there that cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than the Rs20, do not perform as well, and do not have a CMS at all. So please be reasonable and have at least SOME semblance of context here. JVC isn't a non-profit volunteer agency here.
Thanks for another layer of patronising
Your comparison with the RS2 doesn't make any sense, as that model has never been sold or advertised as including an internal CMS to rectify the wide color gamut, so I don't see how anyone could complain about this. And suggesting that we should be happy to have bought the RS20 because it will allow RS30 owners to have a better CMS is simply ludicrous.
There may be other more expensive projectors which are less performant, but there is also a less expensive projector which is almost as good (if the CMS isn't working), and it's the RS10 which I almost bought. And I do know about external VPs, thank you very much, as I think most pre-buyers of the RS20 do. Yes, most people don't know what a CMS is, but most people ready to put the price of the RS20 in a PJ do, or they would buy a Sony HW10 or even an RS10. Like Le Dahu, I paid for the CMS when I chose the 750 (rs20) and not the 350 (rs10).
You are completely misreading my post and are taking it out of its wider context. I personally have nothing but praise at this stage for JVC and my dealer, who are working hard to solve the problem and have never pretended it didn't exist, even if they didn't aknowledge it publicly (or even privately). The only critic one may make is indeed how they handled communication around the problem, but it's not difficult to understand why they did it that way.
In another thread, I reacted strongly when someone questionned the competence (and the ability to deliver a fix) of the design team of this PJ, which is, again, a great PJ. If it had not been sold as integrating a fully working CMS, I don't think anyone would ever have complained about it (but then less people would have bought it, as many would have chosen the rs10, whether they were looking at accurate colors through an external VP or didn't care about the wide gamut!). I also applaud the fact that JVC is working at solving the problem, and I have always been on the side of those trying to encourage others to be patient and allow enough time to get a proper fix, and be positive about it.
But I will react equally strongly when some are suggesting we should contend ourselves with the THX preset, and that there is no problem. I have been sold a PJ with an integrated CMS to finetune this PJ exactly as I want to (with a slight oversaturation in my case, which is also why I'm not happy with the undersaturated THX), and as Le Dahu says, this is what we can rightfully expect. Not absolute precision (10 dE or less for each gamut target is fine by me, and 3dE or less for greyscale steps), but access to custom gamma, 11 step greyscale and reasonable color accuracy (to Rec709 or any custom gamut we favor) AT THE SAME TIME.
In any case, hopefully this will be a moot point within the next few days, thanks to the new firmware, so I don't see much point in discussing this further until we can see what the firmware upgrade brings to the table