New Here - Basement Plan Scaned -Need Help - Page 2

I like the first plan better, but I'm partial to chairs facing directly towards the TV in a theater.

Looks awesome! Where's the completed framing pics? The 3D layout is very cool and I can't wait to see how great this turns out!

I like where the theater room is located in option 1, but the bar in the office just doesn't seem right.

I would go with option 2 personally, because the bar and TV/theater area should go hand in hand. Option 2 also has a much better storage/bathroom layout.

And also, you have plenty of room for a projector set up. I have to beg you to reconsider not going with a projector. Having a projector doesn't mean you have to have some huge dedicated closed off space with fancy pants theater seating, paneling, acoustics treatments, etc. There are many "multi-purpose" rec/media rooms on this site too, and I think you have plenty of space for this. Now's the time to do it, since you are still framing and get everything pre-wired, etc. Go for it!!!

JonyHouse,

You're framing is looking Good! Keep up the good work and the photos.

A question about your wall insulation: Is that a vapor barrier on the room side? If so you might want to consider a change to an un-faced insulation. A vapor barrier on the living side and subgrade concrete on the exterior could create moisture/mildew problems inside your walls. Just a tip to consider >> before you close those walls up.

Also; I vote for a front PJ and screen > you won't regret it.

Hey Jony!
You have done a great job! 'Building' the basement in 3D was the easy part. You guys were smart to start with a 3D... but I admire the REAL work! Looks wonderful. You guys are going to feel like you have a whole new house!

Thanks for letting me be a part of the fun!
Kay
3DPlanView LLC
'Tour Your Home Before You Build!"

WOW...only 2 days for a 3D model. I contacted 3DPlanview for a price estimate and was told it could be a few weeks before they could start my plans. Underpromise/Overdeliver maybe...not that a few weeks is unreasonable for that type of work...2 days is just unbelievable.

JonyHouse,

Sorry about the delayed follow-up. I have been traveling. In regard to vapor barriers and insulation in basement walls. The advice below comes from section 2.4.3 of this HUD publication

http://www.huduser.org/Publications/...sturehomes.pdf

"One suggestion is designing basement insulation and finishes to dry to the interior. "Low permeability and continuous vapor retarders, like polyethylene sheeting or vinyl wall paper, on the interior side of basement finishes should be avoided because they will tend to trap moisture vapor moving through the foundation wall and slow the drying process for new foundations. Therefore, unfaced fiberglass batt insulation and permeable paint finishes on gypsum wall board should be preferred on basement finished wall assemblies."

JonyHouse,

Will a green foundation versus an older foundation make a difference? A good point; but I doubt it that is only part of the concern.

I came across this same HUD article when i was at your point in my build (framed but no drywall). I chose to play it safe by going with the unfaced Batts.

If I were starting over with bare walls > I would have gone with the blue (or pink) foam board glued to the wall then framing on top of that. Live and Learn

If it is done wrong does age really matter?

I don't understand how builders are allowed to get away with putting fiberglass insulation directly against concrete and then cover it with plastic. I have seen many examples of molded insulation, causing families to get sick and spend lots of money to fix. As Craig mentioned I would go with the 1" thick rigid styrofoam on the concrete, then build my walls 1" from the foam and insulate like normal from there. Might cost you more up front, but save you time, energy and money in the long run.

Mike,

I agree completely with your points. For me I had the whole basement framed and then regretted that I had not used the foam board - I think this is where JonyHouse is.

However; I think I found a good alternative, at least for me:

-Because my basement was poured it had slightly uneven walls
-As a result my framing varied from 1/2' to 1" from touching the wall surface.
- I carefully installed unfaced batt insulation betweem my studs, and was able to keep the insulation "forward" and from touching the concrete (had about ~1/2" airspace between insulation and concrete. II used the inexpensive wire supports that are used to hold insulation into overhead joists - I placed these in-between my studs nearest the walls to help hold the insulation away from the concrete.

If no drywall has been done, you could have the stud cavities sprayed with the foam insulation...a bit expensive, but peace of mind that you will not get mold behind the drywall.

Jony House,

If you made your sheet-rock airtight >> it would make the potential problem worse.

The idea is to allow the room side of the insulation to "breathe" into the house. Yes as long as you do not seal the sheetrock with a vinyl wallpaper type covering or some other non porous covering >> the sheetrock does actually allow moisture to dry from the wall cavity by passing into the heated space of your room.

Have you considered cutting the polystyrene foam board into strips that would fit between your studs against the foundation?

JonyHouse,

Great video - thanks for posting the link. In my opinion >> Yes; both methods shown in this video (foam board, or unfaced batts) are a good direction.

Just my opinion, and I know it will cost you a few hundred extra $$'s. However; you would be eliminating a potential long-term mold/mildew concern by replacing your white vapor barrier insulation by using one of the methods shown in the video. I can feel your pain and frustration in backing up and changing direction. I was at this exact same point 9 months ago. However the peace of mind (for me) was worth it.

Jony,

Since you're soliciting quick feedback on the insulation issue I'll jump in here.

I went through this recently and was amazed at the conflicting information I received, even from different 'experts." I think part of this is caused by different common practices in widely different climate zones, and of course the variation between home construction types and whether one is in a high moisture area or not. My experience reflects my situation and may not be exactly applicable to yours.

Having said that, I live in a northern climate like you (Minnesota), where winter temps get pretty low so warmth is certainly one issue. I also live in a 70 year old home with cinder block construction with signs of slow seepage and even some mold issues. Because of that, I decided it was important to be safe on the moisture/mold issues.

I tore off everything down to the cinder block walls, treated them for mold remediation, put in drain tile for future problems, and then went with half inch pink polystyrene (bead board) insulation along the entire perimeter of the wall. This acts as a vapor barrier as well as insulator. Then I framed inside the bead board with normal 2 x 4 framing, and then (again, because of the cold climate here) I put UNFACED R11 fiberglass insulation between the studs. It's important to NOT create a second vapor barrier (using faced batts), as moisture will get trapped between the two barriers. On top of that went normal drywall, etc.

Looking at your pictures, I agree the insulation there is of questionable value. For one, having that type of insulation against the wall you will have mold problems IF any moisture seeps through. For another thing, why does the insulation not reach the floor? Insulation with 'holes' like that is ineffective against the cold, as it will simply pass through the uninsulated opening. Is your basement pretty cold in the winter right now?

The risk with what you have now is similar to what you would have if you simply went with fiberglass batt insulation directly against the concrete walls: IF any moisture gets in, the insulation will get wet and will then be at risk of developing mold. If you can be certain there will never be any moisture, then no problem, but most people can not be certain of that.

I know it's a big PITA, but if you don't get the "foundation" of your project right you risk having to undo it at even greater cost and hassle down the road. You want your basement to be warm and dry, and once you've got drywall up your options to improve that are very limited.

Finally, I may be wrong but what is the spacing you used on your wall framing? Is that 24" on center? That may influence the options you have on insulation batts as well, as obviously those have to fit snugly between the studs.

That's a BIG bummer! Not just because of the immediate need to have that area treated, but because you now KNOW that water CAN be an issue for you in that house.

Now that you know that, you have a big decision to make: do you spot treat the problem and continue on, hoping you won't have any other moisture problems, or act more aggressively now to address the water/moisture issue for the long run? Of course, the second will set your schedule back and force you to go backwards for a while before you can mover forward, which sucks big time. But if you do the other approach and IF you get more water, you have even more time and money invested that will have to be ripped out and done right.

Personally, I'd take the time to do it right now, but that's entirely your call. I feel bad for you, but try to look at it on the bright side: better it happens now than right after you get done, which is exactly what happened to my brother a few years ago.

Damn - sorry to hear about the leak issue.
Still; much better to know now than when the walls are sealed up.

I would go for the permanent fix, and would be even more inclined to use the polysterene (blue or pink) board for insulation (even if you had to cut it into 24 " strips and insert between studs).

Jony,

I'll give you my thoughts but I really urge you to get someone in who has specific experience in dealing with basements with water problems. Plenty of guys know how to build walls, etc. but really have little actual experience with the water and/or mold issues. With that disclaimer, here are my initial thoughts. This is going to be long, because I want to try and help - I've been in a similar situation as you and I know it is no fun, and information is hard to come by.

First priority is to determine and fix the CAUSE of the water problem, not just treat the symptoms by putting on epoxy or whatever on the cracks. As you've said, you've had several known leaks in just a couple of years. That's a problem. The usual culprit is some combination of exterior landscaping and gutter management. At this time of year, it sounds like landscaping. Snow melting/water runoff should be forced away from your foundation to the extent possible by proper landscaping. Unless and until you find and resolve the root cause, you will have to anticipate future water problems.

Secondly, I - personally - would definitely get rid of that existing insulation on the perimeter walls immediately, for three reasons: (1) you need to be able to clearly examine all your foundation walls to be certain you are aware of, and fix, all the cracks, and you can't be certain of doing that with the insulation still up; and (2) the existing insulation has likely already gotten wet somewhere, and once that happens that is a mold nest just waiting to grow; and (3) even without the water concerns, it is clear your builder did a poor job of installing the insulation, as is evidenced by the incomplete wall coverage and questionable direct wall attachment. Put all three issues together and it would be a compelling argument, in my opinion, to just rip out what you have. I certainly don't think the idea of a wire or something behind the insulation would be of any help mold wise (if you're curious do some research on how mold forms and grows and you'll learn, as I did, that once mold exists your only real certain cure is to completely remove any organic material which it has touched).

Once you got the old stuff out and had not only fixed the cracks/leaks but had also made certain you had discovered & addressed the source of the water, here's how I would go about insulating (although you could probably get several differing opinions on the method used - I know I certainly did!)

I would definitely use the polystyrene or "rigid board" insulation, applied directly against the walls. This both insulates and acts as a vapor barrier. This comes in varying thicknesses, with the thicker ones having higher R values and costing more. Installing this in your situation presents a few options.

Obviously you could disassemble your framing so you could get easy access to the walls. I don't know how you affixed your framing to the floor and ceiling so I'm not sure if that would be a huge problem or fairly easy. (At this point I'd ask another related question: it's hard to tell from your photos, but did you use treated lumber for you base plates? They don't look like the typical green treated lumber.)

Second, you could cut them into widths to fit inside the studs, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you had framed up against the wall, because it would just leave too many uninsulated gaps around the entire wall.

A third possibility - given that you apparently have about an inch or more between the framing and the walls - would be to selectively remove a few 2x4s sufficient to allow you to slide the sheets of insulation into the gap and then replace the 2x4. This might be a bit trick, as you'll have to make sure the height of the sheets is snug or at least close to the top plate, but it might just work. Then since they wouldn't be glued to the wall you can get a similar result by simply putting in shims of some sort (likely the scrap insulation cuts) between the framing and the insulation, forcing the insulation to remain snug against the wall.

(Edit: one other possibility worth considering, that I have no first hand experience with: the spray foam insulation against the walls, which you could do without fiddling with your framing. My understanding is this needs to be done by an expert, so the cost is likely higher.)

Once the polystyrene is in, you can additionally put in UNFACED fiberglass insulation between the studs if you want to increase the R value, but that isn't essential.

That's my 2 cents worth. I know just contemplating dealing with this issue at this stage of your build is very frustrating. I know that doing what I suggest means delaying your project and adding cost. If you decide to proceed anyway or without doing all of what I would do in your shoes, you would probably find others who would do the same thing. There are trade offs and risks either way. But to me the risk of not doing it now and hoping you won't have a problem in the future is high, and the cost and hassle of dealing with the problem later after you've done all the more expensive finishing work is far greater than the cost and hassle of biting the bullet and doing it now.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck.