Originally Posted by stanger89
Man you've got some research to do. The pathetic state of CableCard on the PC is 100% the result of the excessively restrictive licensing requirements set forth by CableLabs
. If Microsoft/ATI's CableCard implementation were any less restrictive, it would never have been given a CableCard license.
They'd be laughed out of the room. The Cable Industry is too busy renting DVRs to 1000 times more the subscribers than would use your "USB interface protocol specification". Microsoft has no clout with the TV/media industry. Just look how DirecTV pulled the plug on the HDPC20.
The connection exists, it's called RS232, and many cable boxes provide a RS232 port for control of channels. You can also use Firewire to change channels.
Maybe there is a need for a better connection, but Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Echostar
have all shown repeatedly that they don't agree.
Hey, we should be able to watch all the channels we subscribe to without a box at all too....
Doesn't matter who's doing the negotiating if you can't get the negotiations started. While Microsoft is the dominant company in the PC industry, they've got no influence in the TV/media industry.
I agree, but again, the pathetic state of CableCard on the PC is 100% the result of the excessively restrictive licensing requirements set forth by CableLabs
. If Microsoft/ATI's CableCard implimentation were any less restrictive, it would never have been given a CableCard license.CableCard licensing was written to basically make it impossible to build a CableCard tuner for a PC.
Not in the Cable industry.
What leverage does MS have over the Cable industry?
What are they going to do?
Why? History is filled with people who have seen a need, built a better product, and become huge successes.
If that was the case, Hauppauge wouldn't have built the HD PVR. You notice it doesn't work with Windows Media Center. It bypasses the limitations of CableCard. Obviously Hauppauge wasn't afraid of MS when the made that.
What about the HD PVR? It's
It's obviously not that critical, every tuner I have works without a CD-IN. That connection IS obsolete, you just won't accept it. Further, all your problems in this thread can be traced back to a bios update gone wrong.
Why don't you contact your motherboard manufacturer about the obvious bug in their new bios and have them fix it?
No idea what Composite Audio is, but all my tuners accept analog (stereo) audio and work perfectly in that regard. My HD PVR record AC3 perfectly as well. Can't do that with a CD-IN.
Yet the HD PVR exists, and works perfectly, despite not being designed in such a way as to cater to Microsoft.
Probably because DVICO has to submit their drivers to MS for WHQL certification, and DVICO feels that's a waste of time/money.
I don't know what you're looking at. I see far, far more people using PCs for TV applications today than I did 5 years ago. Media Center, BDA drivers, Microsoft's various standards have lead to an explosion in the PC multimedia (including TV) area.
Again, it is Microsoft's fault that the cable industry has been able to affirm these restrictions in law and regulations in Washington, DC.
In addition, serious problems with the PC Windows TV Tuner operating system software support, many of which I have described, have left Microsoft with a smaller market of TV viewers who view TV through the PC.
That leaves Microsoft with a weaker hand with which to bargain with the Cable TV industry.
Microsoft simply is not playing its role.
For instance, amongst the numerous problems I have described is the situation where when the Hauppauge HD PVR Arcsoft software starts up, it mutes the Dvico FusionHDTV5 CD-IN audio.
It is absolutely critical that someone at Microsoft is on top of this situation and assigns blame on the correct party, and Microsoft is the only company of the 3 in the perfect position to debug the DirectX calls and the drivers and point the finger at the correct party.
Now, from what we have seen in this thread, it may indeed be Microsoft themselves who are again interfering with the Dvico CD-IN when the Arcsoft starts up and makes a particular DirectX call, as part of a clear policy to interfere with CD-IN.
Right now, there is no way to know, but someone in top management at Microsoft has to recognize that Microsoft Multimedia managers simply not producing and Fire them as the first order of business.
There are huge Value-Added advantages to watching TV on the PC.
Picture In Picture (PIP) a capability we know TV buyers seek and buy is something that is accomplished on the PC by simply buying a second TV Tuner card, shaping the TV picture windowapproriately and sticking that window in the desired corner of the screen.
The user could have 3 or 4 x PIP, using $50 PCI PCI-E and USB TV Tuner devices.
I should reiterate here that Arcsoft crap windows cannot be shaped and thus interfere with the advantages of the PC here.
The only problem here is whether any of these Tuner products interfere with each other.
Microsoft is not performing to attack interoperability causes and place appropriate fault.
Another PC TV Value Added is Closed Captions.
No one uses Closed Captions on the TV because it obscures the picture.
However, as I have described there are big reasons for people who Are Not Deaf, to use Closed Captions.
Lyrics to songs, punchlines in jokes or drama missed at key moments, Watching TV while Mute (eg. while talking on the phone), language translation of the text.
In addition on the PC, the Closed Captions can be placed in a separate External Window, hidden behind other windows until needed.
This is a big Value Added advantage over the TV format.
Another Value Added is portability. Shows can be recorded onto a laptop/notebook using a schedule, for instance, and then taken to work or wherever and watched during lunch.
A DVR cannot be taken to work and it is difficult if possible at all to copy show files from the DVR to the PC.
The DVR can store only around 40 hours, depending on the quality required.
The PC user, with a cheap $129 1.5 TeraByte hard disk drive and software codec bit rate converter programs could store a 1,000 to 2,000 quality hours on their PC.
I also described another audio problem with Arcsoft where, when its integrated Volume controls are used up or down, it affects, not the preferred 1) internal software or hardware pre-amp prior to feeding the PC Wave audio input, or 2) the Wave level in SNDVOL32.exe, but the worst 3) tampers with the Master control in SNDVOL32.exe.
This means that changing the volume from within Arcsoft changes the volume for all audio on the PC including Wave CD-IN and Line-IN.
That means this even defeats the workaround which experienced users use to enable Hardware Audio for Dvico or ATI to provide a separate volume control slider in SNDVOL.exe and allow volume balancing.
Microsoft DirectX should definitely not allow any application to control the level of the Master level of SNDVOL32.exe, which they are doing easily through Microsoft's DirectX calls. Applications affecting the Wave slider should also be discouraged or banned.
Then Microsoft should give away MSDN software for the Windows XP platform to allow TV Tuner softwar eto perform software 'pre-amp' before feeding Wave, just like Windows Media Player has implemented.
I should mention that any application running on Windows XP can perform its own internal 'pre-amp' software volume control, prior to feeding the Wave audio mixer input.
Microsoft's own Windows Media Player does this.
In fact technologies like MMX and similar newer instruction extensions in the x86 family are there specifically to perform this sort of tedious operation at accelerated speed.
If you change the volume on WMP, it does not tamper with SNDVOL32.exe Wave level.
It is heavily in Microsoft's interests that all Windows XP audio-generating software perform this pre-amp operation.
Thus the software to do this, which is non-trivial, should have been given away by Microsoft MSDN. Microsoft has failed to perform here, yet again.
Thus, it is not necessary to wait for Windows Vista, in order to obtain this TV Tuner audio functionality.
And of course the ultimate Value-Added is that the TV viewer has direct access to his own PC while watching TV, for instance to look at IMDB information about the film they are watching, to look up the lyrics on a song where Closed Captions are not available, to Google or WIKI who somebody is who is mentioned in a news story.
That of course is a huge advantage Value Added to watching TV on the PC, of course.
There are numerous other Value Added advantages which the PC platform has over the Cable DVR which should have the people, the voters, clamoring to Washington, DC to demand access to them, but there continues to be a confused TV Tuner mess on the PC TV platform which only Microsoft Multimedia department is in a position to clarify.
Microsoft's leverage against the Cable TV industry will come from demonstrating that the PC TV platform is a much better platform to Watch TV than the Cable DVR.
That will prime popular demand and then Congress and the FCC will act to force, if needed, cooperation by the Cable and CableLabs operatives with the PC TV industry.
This requires new Microsoft Multimedia management.