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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 39

post #1141 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:20pm
Ok, I really want to buy one of these units. I started a thread about a month ago about OTA HD DVR's after realizing the utter lack of units on the market. I've read this entire thread with great excitement, and since Macworld let me down yet again this morning, I'm even closer to pulling the trigger.

Two questions: the first I did not see fully addressed, or possibly missed it in 38 pages of posts. Does this unit pass-through the HD/ASTC signal through it's coax port? Being a "converter" box, I figured it would downgrade everything to SD for coaxial output. Can anyone confirm the pass-through? I would rather not use a amp/splitter setup, and I intend to connect this using component cables in lieu of HDMI. My hope is to use the units two tuners to record while using the tuner in my HDTV to watch a third program.

Second, being a pretty tech-savvy guy, I can put up with trouble-shooting lockups, reboots, etc. Being that I love my wife, however, I need something that works as well as our existing Pioneer DVR. Would current users suggest holding out for an upgrade/bug fix version? Do you regret purchasing the initial version? I understand responses may be biased since most owners in this thread are looking for solutions, but would appreciate the response.
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post #1142 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkershaw View Post

Ok, I really want to buy one of these units. I started a thread about a month ago about OTA HD DVR's after realizing the utter lack of units on the market. I've read this entire thread with great excitement, and since Macworld let me down yet again this morning, I'm even closer to pulling the trigger.

Two questions: the first I did not see fully addressed, or possibly missed it in 38 pages of posts. Does this unit pass-through the HD/ASTC signal through it's coax port? Being a "converter" box, I figured it would downgrade everything to SD for coaxial output. Can anyone confirm the pass-through? I would rather not use a amp/splitter setup, and I intend to connect this using component cables in lieu of HDMI. My hope is to use the units two tuners to record while using the tuner in my HDTV to watch a third program.

Second, being a pretty tech-savvy guy, I can put up with trouble-shooting lockups, reboots, etc. Being that I love my wife, however, I need something that works as well as our existing Pioneer DVR. Would current users suggest holding out for an upgrade/bug fix version? Do you regret purchasing the initial version? I understand responses may be biased since most owners in this thread are looking for solutions, but would appreciate the response.


1. - yes it will pass through RF through the coax

2. - it's kind of a crap shoot - if your boxes H/W is good - it works fine - if it isn't , well - you can read...
treat it like most electronics - keep it in a cool, well ventilated space, and it should be fine.
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post #1143 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
High-definition content is downconverted to SD through composite and coax to support older televisions. The currently tuned channel on the DTVPal DVR is output as RF channel 3 or 4 via coax.

If the DTVPal DVR is 'off' (standby), I believe it may pass the ATSC signal through coax. Hopefully, someone else can confirm whether that is the case.
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post #1144 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:31pm
It seems we now have two polls started near same time, (six minutes), unbeknownst of the other:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105116 started 12:40pm
and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105110 started 12:34pm

So maybe they need combined or delete one.

PS: According to early voters, most are not having the problem.
PSS: I have only voted, for now, in the thread I made so I don't skew the count.
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post #1145 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by isnms View Post

It seems we now have two polls started near same time, (six minutes), unbeknownst of the other:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105116 started 12:40pm
and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105110 started 12:34pm

So maybe they need combined or delete one.

PS: According to early voters, most are not having the problem.
PSS: I have only voted, for now, in the thread I made so I don't skew the count.

I aggree, I vote to keep the earlyer one. It has more Responsive.
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post #1146 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:37pm
More Votes Yes,
More replies with relevant data No
IMO
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post #1147 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:37pm
I occasionally volunteer with a charity that had a random reboot problem with a Dell computer -- one of an identical lot ordered at the same time. None of the other computers had the problem. After reading some discussion forums, I replaced the power supply and the problem was fixed. Apparently the Dell took "low voltage" as an indication that it had just been turned off, so that normal voltage felt like being turned on. So it rebooted.

This may have nothing to do with the problems reported with the DTVPal DVR, but does illustrate a larger principle: reboots can be caused by software or hardware.
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post #1148 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavemaster View Post

Anyone else running the original firmware and has the ability to set a timer based recording?

I would hate to think that upgrading to F202 takes features away

I have original FW, no problems so far using manual timers even into the future or using PSIP to create recording timers.
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post #1149 of 16903
1/6/09 at 12:57pm
With poll results showing something like 75% of respondents having no reboot / freeze problems, I feel a little better about my pending order. I'm also planning to take a hard line with Dish if mine has problems, insisting on a new unit. Would suggest that those having problems do the same - you paid $250 + for it, they should send you a unit that works.

I called Dish today asking for a tracking # since they charged my credit card a week ago. It hasn't shipped yet. A supervisor confirmed that it is Dish's practice to charge credit cards immediately even with no units to ship. Why do people put up with Dish's poor customer service and poor quality control? Because this is the only game in town if you want a dual ATSC tuner device that records HD to a hard drive and has TVGOS. Having listed those features my mouth is watering again.
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post #1150 of 16903
1/6/09 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

With poll results showing something like 75% of respondents having no reboot / freeze problems, ...

Someone already suggested this, the handling during shipping could be a problem such as making the HD disk cable lose.
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post #1151 of 16903
1/6/09 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlkane View Post

Thanks to all who have experimented with setting manual timers for a timeslot NOT covered by guide data. I've learned from your reports that some units allow it, others throw an error, and that the firmware version does not seem to make a difference. Sigh...

While I have no path forward to resolving the errors, I have more support for whining to E* about the bug. And some consolation that I'm neither alone nor crazy. (Well, at least no crazier than usual...)

Again, my thanks for taking the time to experiment and report. This is a great community.

Jim


I was able to get my unit to set for recordings beyond the current guide info. I did a factory reset (which deletes all your scheduled recordings, but not your previously recorded shows). After the reset I was able to set recordings in the future with manual timers.
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post #1152 of 16903
1/6/09 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

With poll results showing something like 75% of respondents having no reboot / freeze problems, I feel a little better about my pending order. ...

The poll at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105110
presently has a vote of 15 - 2 - 8.

32% are still having the reboot and/or freeze problems.

32% is high IMO. But it could be because people with problems are more active on the forum to help them find the problem. We need a larger sample.
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post #1153 of 16903
1/6/09 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeySoft View Post

The poll at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105110
presently has a vote of 15 – 2 – 8.

32% are still having the reboot and/or freeze problems.

32% is high IMO. But it could be because people with problems are more active on the forum to help them find the problem. We need a larger sample.

I added a "Known Issues" section to the first post, with a link to both polls.

Please read it and let me know how you think it should be revised or clarified.
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post #1154 of 16903
1/6/09 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I added a "Known Issues" section to the first post, with a link to both polls.

Please read it and let me know how you think it should be revised or clarified.

Too bad we don't have only one poll, but I guess, great minds thing alike.
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post #1155 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkershaw View Post

...
Second, being a pretty tech-savvy guy, I can put up with trouble-shooting lockups, reboots, etc. Being that I love my wife, however, I need something that works as well as our existing Pioneer DVR. ...

Not that it will answer all your questions about the DVR but you can download the manual at www.dtvpal.com.

As for your wife it depends on your pain level. The reboots (if you have them since it appears some don't) only take about a minute and the box continues with what it was doing with no intervention. A couple of mornings my unit did not respond to the remote the first couple of clicks but I have not seen a total freeze/lock up. It always recovered.

No one here has a clue as to what the problem is but I live in hope that a pattern will soon emerge and that it gets fixed but am able to live with it. It is just not right.
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post #1156 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

High-definition content is downconverted to SD through composite and coax to support older televisions. The currently tuned channel on the DTVPal DVR is output as RF channel 3 or 4 via coax.

If the DTVPal DVR is 'off' (standby), I believe it may pass the ATSC signal through coax. Hopefully, someone else can confirm whether that is the case.

"ANALOG PASS-THROUGH" allows you to record two shows and use your TV's tuner to watch a third signal. It says analog but it just passes the raw RF signal. In an earlier post someone measured the signal loss and determined that there is actually a small amount of gain.
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post #1157 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:08pm
Both polls have been closed. Please use this one topic for all related issues until a consensus is reached on how the poll should be set up, and who's going to do it.

Feel free to make suggestions right here.

Let me know via PM when, and I'll 'sticky' it.
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post #1158 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkershaw View Post

I understand responses may be biased since most owners in this thread are looking for solutions, but would appreciate the response.

Or, they might be biased because their units are working OK.

Personally, I'd wait. And wait some more. The chances are way too high that I'd have to exchange it, and if you order from Dish, returning it is out of the question.
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post #1159 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

Why do people put up with Dish's poor customer service and poor quality control?

As far as the customer service, I barely put up with it because the service I have from them is comparatively a lot cheaper for what I get.

As far as the quality control, only the DTVPal, TR-40, DTVPal Plus and the DTVPal DVR have these issues. Anything you use with their pay service is usually fine.
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post #1160 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeySoft View Post

The poll at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105110
presently has a vote of 15 - 2 - 8.

32% are still having the reboot and/or freeze problems.

32% is high IMO. But it could be because people with problems are more active on the forum to help them find the problem. We need a larger sample.

I would put some fuzz on that 32% because the 2 just may not have not seen a reoccurance (can't blame people for being optimistic that they have a fix). Some of the 15 may just have not seen the problem yet. I think my DVR went over a week before it started rebooting and I think others have experienced similar behaviour. I hope I am wrong but at this point I am cautious about making claims on such a small sample.
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post #1161 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Both polls have been closed. Please use this one topic for all related issues until a consensus is reached on how the poll should be set up, and who's going to do it.

Feel free to make suggestions right here.

Let me know via PM when, and I'll 'sticky' it.

I would wonder how many people are having problems and don't even know it because they haven't looked at their power cycle counters, presuming it shouldn't increment under normal operation.
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post #1162 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by donh57 View Post

I would wonder how many people are having problems and don't even know it because they haven't looked at their power cycle counters, presuming it shouldn't increment under normal operation.

If still set at the factory defaults it will power cycle every night at 1 AM.
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post #1163 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

If still set at the factory defaults it will power cycle every night at 1 AM.

Disagree with you on this - my counter only increments when it gets unplugged from power.
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post #1164 of 16903
1/6/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Disagree with you on this - my counter only increments when it gets unplugged from power.

Mine did every night until I disabled Updates.
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post #1165 of 16903
1/6/09 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Personally, I'd wait. And wait some more. The chances are way too high that I'd have to exchange it, and if you order from Dish, returning it is out of the question.

Agreed, I've read more than enough to make me wait. As I noted earlier, I would wait at least until after the 2/17 shutdown and then some -- at least to March. By then the Jan 12 units will have shipped and be on hand for review and possibly a third wave may have made it out the door. Possibly even availability at the retail level.

I will say that if it was available at retail now with an easy in-store return policy, I would buy tomorrow -- even if the retail price was $300.
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post #1166 of 16903
1/6/09 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Agreed, I've read more than enough to make me wait. As I noted earlier, I would wait at least until after the 2/17 shutdown and then some -- at least to March. By then the Jan 12 units will have shipped and be on hand for review and possibly a third wave may have made it out the door. Possibly even availability at the retail level.

I will say that if it was available at retail now with an easy in-store return policy, I would buy tomorrow -- even if the retail price was $300.

My exact sentiments. No apparent awareness of the manufacturer that these problems exist is not encouraging. KMart carries Dish CECBs. Hoping they do the same with these.
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post #1167 of 16903
1/6/09 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

I'm wondering how many with the reboot problem got cold boxes from UPS and didn't wait for them to warm up before setting them up...mine sat in the house for 12 hours.
Or, did any of you move the box after setup while it was still plugged in?

The box was in the house for 24 hours before turning it on. The box was moved about 1 foot after it was plugged in, but that was it. It was in the open for clear ventilation. It was plugged into a surge protector, and then directly into the wall. Tried in two different houses. I used component cables, then HDMI only, then both. I tried so many things I can't remember them all. After 51 power recycles, the box was shipped back to Dish, even though they don't have a formal return policy and couldn't give me a RA number. They said including my account number in the returned box would work.

I happy for all of you that have good units. I really liked what I saw minus reboots and freezes. I can live with the other limitations mentioned, but not 3 or 4 reboots an hour, and the morning ritual of unplugging and plugging the unit back in.
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post #1168 of 16903
1/6/09 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

I discovered this as well - don't have both HDMI and component at the same time on the same TV. It might work OK if you're going to two different displays - I don't have any way to test that.

I've yet to find a box of any kind that can output component and hdmi simultaneously. My Samsung box has a switch. My Scientific Atlanta cable tuner cuts out component if it sees hdmi being used even on different displays. I hope someone can test this - this would make this device MUCH more useful to me (and others that might want 2 HD outputs simultaneously).
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post #1169 of 16903
1/6/09 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

As far as the customer service, I barely put up with it because the service I have from them is comparatively a lot cheaper for what I get.

As far as the quality control, only the DTVPal, TR-40, DTVPal Plus and the DTVPal DVR have these issues. Anything you use with their pay service is usually fine.

Oh not really, do some research and you will see the Dish has had many problems with their satellite DVRs.
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post #1170 of 16903
1/6/09 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmplsmn View Post

The box was in the house for 24 hours before turning it on. The box was moved about 1 foot after it was plugged in, but that was it. It was in the open for clear ventilation. It was plugged into a surge protector, and then directly into the wall. Tried in two different houses. I used component cables, then HDMI only, then both. I tried so many things I can't remember them all. After 51 power recycles, the box was shipped back to Dish, even though they don't have a formal return policy and couldn't give me a RA number. They said including my account number in the returned box would work.

I happy for all of you that have good units. I really liked what I saw minus reboots and freezes. I can live with the other limitations mentioned, but not 3 or 4 reboots an hour, and the morning ritual of unplugging and plugging the unit back in.

I really do feel for those that are having trouble.
My experience with the Pal CECB and Dish Network support is/was very much like the things you are just now beginning to endure
To all of you...may you win in the end.

BTW...nobody has really raised this point but I was thinking about it and I can attest to the fact that heavy use of the DVR does not cause any of your problems as I (and I somewhat hate to admit this) use mine an average of 8 hours a day with the weekends getting up to 16 hours. Still no sign of reboots, etc.
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