The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 416

I bought a used Pal w/out remote. When plugged in it powers on fine, goes through its loading page, then turns itself off. I'm trying to use a DISH Sat. remote I have [IR] to operate it. The FAQ addresses how to change the remote codes once the Pal is on. But I can't get it to turn on in order to take those steps. Any suggestions? thanks.
p.s. each time I press a button on my Sat. remote, the light on the front of the Pal blinks, so I know it is not a line of sight problem.

Make sure the remote is set to address #1 and it should work.
Press the SAT button until all the device buttons blink
press the number 1
press the # key the sat button should blink three times.
The remote should now work.

If that doesn't work you may need to set the receiver to use address #1
Press the PIP button on the remote to bring up the system info screen.
press the record button on the remote and the remote address indication on the screen should change to 1 if it was different.

Thank you n0qcu. The first step you mentioned did not work but the 2nd scenario certainly did. Was that somewhere in the FAQ? I never would've thought to press the PIP button to turn on the Pal. Again, thanks very much; Problem solved!

On the actual PAL remote the buttons are labeled for the functions they do on the PAL.
The Pal is just using the "same button code" as the Satellite version on the remote just for a different function.

Swap = CC
PIP = System Info (this button works no matter what remote address is)
Position = SAP

Hope this additional info helps.

Never tried that sequence. Having to do something like that every day wouldn't be very attractive as a long term workaround (especially from the point of view of other family members ).

In general, this business of doing reboots is confusing. From what I've read, if a station has clock data in their PSIP stream, that clock data will be available to an ATSC device on a second to second basis, whenever it wants it to set its clock, etc. However it sounds like the clock setting info from TVGOS must be vastly different.

By looking at the Diagnostics screen counters and noting the time since last reboot, I've proven to myself that scheduling firmware update attempts really does cause the CM-7000PAL to reboot. However whether those reboots actually accomplish anything desirable is no longer clear to me. And if the reboots do accomplish something, once again, I still don't know the optimum time setting for them. Right now I have the Update function set to be at 11:15 PM -- is this acceptable? What's the best time (assuming there is one)?

Since you have been trying out the Baltimore zip code, I think I would disable updates, until you figure out whether that is a workable solution.

The reason 6:30pm was picked, is because it is after the TVGOS downloads end, and before the prime time shows come on. Prime time is when most people record stuff, and need for their clock to be right. Only you can tell if the reboot solution works for you. If your clock isn't correct, or doesn't stay correct all evening after a 6:30pm reboot, then the clock skew issue you are seeing is different than what Austin sees. I believe jrpastore has been using the "updates reboot" method to keep his clock correct in the evening.

Mark

My CM-7000PAL never seems to look solely at the zip code setting to decide what CBS affiliate to use for TVGOS data.

I had repeatedly tried switching to a Baltimore zip code, but my clock skew (AKA error) never improved. Then, since the DVR doesn't explicitly announce which station it's using for TVGOS, I tried to figure this out by deleting from the channel list the local CBS station and/or the more remote Baltimore CBS station. Whether my zip code was set to Wash DC or Baltimore, as long as the local CBS station (WUSA Ch 9) was in the listing, my clock was inaccurate. And again regardless of zip code, if I deleted WUSA, the clock became perfect. If I deleted BOTH of the CBS stations, the clock was again perfect, and it no longer said it was using TVGOS for the clock (as expected), so I now know that PSIP must be alive and well here in Maryland.

So the question was, how to get the DVR is use the Baltimore station for TVGOS, while at the same time have the local CBS station in the channel list for recording (the two CBS stations don't always broadcast the same material). Just changing the zip code did NOT accomplish this.

It was recently mentioned that signal strength was a possible factor in determining which CBS station is used for TVGOS. So yesterday I tried a test by fiddling with our antenna rotation, looking for a compromise bearing between Wash DC, Baltimore, and Annapolis (the latter is a whole other story, but there's a major PBS station there, one that's desirable to watch). At the same time, I set our zip code to Baltimore. I found a solution by having the antenna pointing more or less between the two remote cities. And in so doing, it's now receiving all our local stations (including WUSA) off its back side. Though the antenna has a very good front-to-back ratio, evidently inverse square law works and now the Baltimore stations are about as strong as the ones in Wash DC. IOW, the Baltimore stations are stronger, the Wash DC ones are weaker, but now they both are approaching a mean strength of around 90 on the signal strength bar graph.

The Baltimore CBS station is now usually stronger than the one in Wash DC, and with the Baltimore zip code being used, all of a sudden the clock shifted to being perfect. Since the zip code change never did a thing previously, this recent "fix" appears to have come from juggling the signal strengths. BTW, I should have said earlier that in all cases the DVR indicates it's using TVGOS for the clock setting (the only time this was not the case was the short interval earlier on when I deleted both CBS stations).

Now I'm watching the clock very closely. My concern is that these two CBS stations now have VERY similar signal strengths. So what will happen if propagation or day/night variation, rain, or who knows what causes the Wash DC station to become stronger? Will the CM-7000PAL sometimes switch it preference to the Wash DC CBS station which gives lousy clock data (regardless of zip code)? I'm now waiting to see how this turns out, but right now all is well here!

I'm an EE too, and I agree with your engineering viewpoint entirely!

A lot has changed in the last day or tow, so rather than commenting on your suggestions here, see my message #12488 posted this morning.

On CM vs. Dish, my understanding has always been that CM is the actual maker of the DVR, and that this has been so since day one when Dish first began offering the thing. Then when Dish decided to stop marketing it, CM decided to go ahead and sell it under their own name with a slightly different model number. I could easily have that backwards -- do I? Anyway, this is why I thought that CM was the prime mover here, and the ones who'd know how to mod the firmware. If I do have this backwards, or for that matter if there's zero financial incentive for any company to spend a nickel enhancing the thing or squashing bugs, I may feel slightly sheepish for having bought one in the first place.

That very last bit throws me. My clock is now at least temporarily accurate via a few recent changes here, but I fear this would reverse at any time (it all depends on which of two CBS stations my DVR finds attractive to use for TVGOS data on any one day). So now I don't know whether to enable updates at 6:30 PM as you suggest, or disable it. What do you foresee possibly happening with updates enabled when the clock is at least temporarily accurate?

You may be right. My understanding is still shaky on what's accomplished by enabling updates and thereby forcing a reboot (there even seems to be some disagreement on the latter, but it seems to do that here).

I have no idea whether WUSA has changed or improved anything, but the last time I looked, this was not at all obvious here.

All I can report about my most current setup is so far, so good. Whenever the local CBS station has been the apparent source of TVGOs data, my clock has been several minutes off. But now with the antenna swung so as to favor Baltimore and with the zip code set to one in Baltimore, the clock is perfect. So far I don't see many days of advance information in the Guide, but I need to watch that for a few days to see what I really have (especially for the Wash DC stations). I suspect that things are still not completely right, but the current setup isn't bad.

Off topic but... Reading too quickly, I thought you had a very neat vanity call of N0CQU (as in "CQ you"!). But then I looked closer....

Over the years as this thread has been going I've seen people comment on the need to get stuff off of the DVR. Are we still left with playing it out of the DVR and then somehow re-capturing/encoding and recording it?

What sort of things have been tried?

I went and bought a Phillips HDRW720 thinking it would be a good way to move DVR content to DVD. Because it has component inputs I thought it would help with the quality and all but the input was limited to 480i (output could be set to 480p) so I've sold that and started looking for another solution. I figure if I can take things off at 720p or better and edit/re-encode at 480P I may end up with a DVD that has a picture that approaches what I could buy in a store.

Has anyone tried streaming this to a Hauppauge HD-PVR or the new BlackMagic Intensity shuttle? The Hauppauge comes with more (likely useless) software but lacks HDMI input. The BlackMagic captures and streams uncompressed video to the PC so requires a lot of bandwidth (usb 3.0) and processing power but does have HDMI input.

For that matter. Does anyone know whether or not the DTVPal's HDMI output is HDCP protected?

Check Colossus card, it's using Component output and HDMI without HDCP.

Personnally - if I want to save content off my DTVPAL DVR to DVD - I connect the DVR to my Hauppauge WinHVR1600 via the composite video at 480i. Any solution that involves HD capable inputs is beyond my budget right now.

My DTV-Pal has been running from ontime to 4 mins. ahead of real time since those AVS members contacted WUSA-9 and they did something to correct it. It used to be always slow by a couple minutes to 5 minutes. Today it is 2 mins. fast Better to have programs start a tad early then late I guess but I had to delete and re-create my timers again!
I am wondering if any of the drift is individual DVRs clock since you mentioned differences in multiple units. I don't know how the clock actually works on these things.

I keep checking that outlet link too. The last unit I saw was the one in Washington state that an AVS member purchased and returned as defective. That was early this year I believe. I'm pretty sure they are all history now...look to the CM unit.

Just a quick question. How did you determine the PSIP listings vs. the TVGuide listings in the program guide? Did you disable TVGuide as an experiment and see or just look out past a day for detailed listings and know they were from TVGuide? Or what?
By the way, do you ever have program details show up when you highlight a program (in the guide) and then almost immediately disappear before you are finished reading the description and then not being able to get it back even if you highlight another program and return to the previously highlighted one to finish reading the description? This happens to me with certain stations - clueless as to why. I thought it might be a 'memory capacity' problem (displaying too many channels in the guide) but when I locked some of the stations I don't watch much (to keep them out of the guide listings), I still have the problem.

Both models are made by Echostar, the parent company of Dish. Since Dish no longer markets it there isn't any incentive to upgrade the software until/unless Dish/Echostar starts using them as a streaming device for BlockBuster VOD.

Yep my Pal DVR does the same thing so that seems normal. Even though my Dish Vip722 receiver is set to code 8 and the Pal is set to 1, when I press any key on the remote set to control the Dish Sat receiver, the Pal's light blinks, but it doesn't have any other effect.

Originally Posted by jrpastore
Actually, the early/late padding SHOULD be applied in both scenarios that you describe.


You can access a listing of all your "timers" either through the menu options or by pressing the DVR button on your remote, then selecting "View Schedule" and finally on the right-hand side select "Timers". As you scroll through that list, you'll notice that any timer you created via the EPG is called an "Event Timer", these WILL include your default early/late padding (except of course if doing so would require more than 2 tuners! In that case the DVR will automatically eliminate the early and/or late padding to avoid the tuner conflict.) Any timer in the timer list that you created manually will be called a "Manual Timer", these will not include any early/late padding, you set the precise start and end times yourself. While viewing the list of timers, you can select one of them and click EDIT. By looking at the OPTIONS for that timer, you'll be able to confirm that it has early/late padding. However, as I mentioned in a prior post, if you SAVE any edits to an existing timer, it will be converted to a "Manual Timer" and hence early/late padding will be removed. But you can still use the EDIT-OPTIONS screen to view the padding info and then hit CANCEL. The timer will then remain an "Event Timer" with padding intact. Hope this helps.


I agree! Thx jrpastore! I must have been modifying some of my timers and changing them to Manual ones. I had noticed that the original padding I had set when I created the timer stayed with it even if I changed the DVR Default setting for padding. (Only new event timers utilized the changed padding.) I guess I can't go into Edit-->Options and modify the padding there for a program because it will change it to a manual timer (if I understand correctly), so I will still have to delete the timer and re-create it (if the clock is off by more than the original padding set and I've changed the default padding to adjust for it.)

What reference clock you're using ? PC ? Check when it did correct a clock last time.

I have a DTVPal DVR and a DTVPal Plus both connected via composite to a Panasonic DRM-E85. If I record something using the Pal+ the picture looks almost as good as HD. If I transfer something I recorded on the DVR to DVD it is obviously of lower quality. All I can deduce from this is that the analog converter in the DVR must not be very good.

I think it may depend on what you do. I know that if I edit an event timer to extend the time it does not change its type to manual. Perhaps changing the start time is what causes it to change.

I searched for this but it seems that the AVS search function isn't working right now.

Just today, one of my DTVPal DVRs started giving out fuzzy, slightly lip sync'd audio. It does it on live TV, delayed TV and recorded shows too. It does it on all channels.

When I first turn on the unit, the audio is perfect but after about 10 seconds, it gets fuzzy with crackles and it sounds like a blown speaker sounds. If I switch to a recorded show, it does the same thing. Video is perfect. I tried changing the audio settings but it does the same thing all the time regardless.

The unit is connected via HDMI.

What can I do to fix this and what is causing it?

EDIT: Well, I just fixed the problem. All I did was unplug the HDMI cable from the back of the DVR while it was on and then plug it back in? Must have been a loose HDMI cable or something associated with HDMI. But it is back to working perfectly again so I am happy once again!

Are you using a sound system or the TV speakers?

To differentiate between TV Guide listings and PSIP, I simply looked 4-7 days forward. No flaky info disappearing acts have ever occurred in my guide listings.

All three dvrs are keeping perfect time. (One is still set to a Baltimore zip as a precaution). So, among three of us (i.e., gary-in -dc, J-D-H, and me), the attempts at resolving the time skew for DC have met with dramatically different results. All of my antennas are essentially UHF. At 12 miles from VHF 7 & 9, it's no problem but VHF 11 & 13 are more than twice the distance so it takes more effort to bring them in cleanly (with UHF antennas). There could be more than one source of this time skew problem, but I'm suspicious it has to do with each Pal's schedule for time updates. Since one of my dvrs never skewed and another was corrected by changing my zip back and forth, is the solution to revert to a DC zip at an optimum time of day? My update option is disabled and has been forever. Why ask for trouble?

J-D-H, since my time skew was resolved with 0 reboots, I suspect resetting the zip is the key element here. The prima-fascia evidence is that signal quality may be a factor in setting the TV Guide station but signal strength isn't. For me, 9 was at 98-100 and 13 was at 73. I picked up the Baltimore time and Guide on the first try without a hiccup. Although, when I attempted the same exercise a while later, the change wasn't immediate.

If you're picking up a clean enough signal from 13, I doubt the DC time will wander back of its own accord. My guess is, if you change the zip back at the right time of day, the DC time will be fine. I'm still wondering if gary-n-dc would benefit from some signal attenuation.

I know just what you're talking about: I see it with at least one PBS station (I can't recall if they all do that, or if any other channels have). Say I'd like to see what the latest Frontline episode is going to be about; I highlight it in the guide and the episode information briefly appears at the top but then disappears/becomes no info available. I'm also at a loss as to why it occurs since it isn't with any regularity.

What reference clock you're using ? PC ? Check when it did correct a clock last time.

Sounds like you're almost out of the woods! Good luck...


Yeah, you do have that backwards. Dish/Echostar is certainly the developer of this DVR. It was originally called the TR-50 by Echostar, later the DTVPal DVR when Dish was selling it directly, later (briefly) the Freestar DVR when Dish stopped selling it directly and they were distributing it exclusively through Sears/K-Mart, and most recently the CM-7000 now that their latest OEM distribution channel is in operation. Kinda gives you the impression that this thing is an unwanted orphan doesn't it...

I wouldn't feel too sheepish about the purchase though. The only real alternative (HD OTA DVR) is TIVO and I they've got their own issues. My parents have been through 3 or 4 of their TIVO Premier boxes in the last couple of years. The Cust Serv Rep at TIVO even acknowledged that they've had "a lot of stability issues with that model". So don't feel bad, you've got similar functionality, similar (maybe fewer) frustrations, and a wad of cash still in your pocket!