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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 45

post #1321 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by donmarrow View Post

Hi,

I got one of these before Xmas. I have not opened it and I'd like to return it. Of course there is no number on the web site. Can someone give me a # so I can try to return it. Much abliged...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Nerd View Post

The website makes a point to say All sales are final with its Sales Disclosure. Line 4. Also the first post in this thread distinguishes it with bold blue letters You'll probably have better luck getting rid of it on eBay...

Since you can't send it back unless it is defective why not open it and enjoy. It may not be perfect but try it you will like it.
post #1322 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

Since you can't send it back unless it is defective why not open it and enjoy. It may not be perfect but try it you will like it.

I still think that the 'all sales final' is only for the DTVPal, the DTVPal DVR is a different product in which you couldn't use a coupon. All sales final because with a government coupon, they can't refund the money.
post #1323 of 18096
I live in an area where cable is not available and I have no interest in paying monthly fees for just about anything.

Ever since I got my HDTV 18 months ago, I have been on the lookout for an OTA HD DVR with no fees. The second I saw this one (back in November), I ordered it.

They charged my credit card right away.
I never received any email confirmations.
I received a bill in the mail that showed paid in full 1-2 weeks after I ordered it.
On December 24th, the UPS truck pulled up and delivered the unit. It was a very merry Christmas.

I have used it every single day and it is everything I expected it to be. A few bugs, but worth every penny.

Factory firmware is installed and is version F002.

The unit re-booted twice. Once on day one. Once on day 2. I am the type that has to play around with every setting to see what happens so I have messed around with it quite a bit. Unfortunately, I do not know what setting (or combination of settings) caused the re-boots to stop since I changed so many. If I come across anything that is repeatable, I will post it.

The unit has never locked up.

Tuner is excellent. Picture is VERY nice. Live TV and recorded shows are identical in quality. The unit is essentially silent. Remote works well from a long distance.

I use the HDMI output which is really the only option in my opinion.

I use a Phillips indoor amplified antenna placed upstairs in a spare bedroom. I run the antenna output into the coax wired through the house that was intended for cable. This allows me to put a TV in any of the other rooms without an ugly antenna sitting by it.

I am not in an area that has TVGOS yet.
I do not have an ethernet connection.

I am not sure where the unit gets the time of day from, but I noticed is was ahead of my atomic clock by over 1 minute. I set the time manually last night to within 1 second of the atomic clock. I do not know how accurate it will remain.

I notice when I try to edit timer settings I get an error occasionally that says the program is already recording when nothing is recording (other than the live TV program).

If I have the timer set to record on two different channels simultaneously and you happen to be watching a channel other than those 2 when they start to record, the screen goes blank. This isn't a bug, it is just strange. I have to change to one of the recording channels if you want a picture back.

The features of this unit are very nice and it has not let me down in any way.

I would be happy to answer any questions about my experience with the unit.
post #1324 of 18096
That would be fine if you want to use it for cable or sat but for OTA...
post #1325 of 18096
I agree, these should not apply to the DVR. I don't want to open it if I can send it back. I'm calling the 800 Dish network # to see what my options are. I have TIVO and love it, from what I've read this product is inferior and I'd rather buy another TIVO. I know it costs a lot more but I can share shows between these units. If no dice then I'll try to sell this on Craigslist.

Thanks
post #1326 of 18096
So - just spoke with DISH (800-333-3474). They say if it is unopened I can take it to UPS and tell them to return to sender. Supposedly I'll get my money back. We'll see...
post #1327 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by donmarrow View Post

So - just spoke with DISH (800-333-3474). They say if it is unopened I can take it to UPS and tell them to return to sender. Supposedly I'll get my money back. We'll see...

I'm soon punting my dtvpal on craigslist as well. I'd rather have the TiVo interface than having HD. I'm getting the Channel Master 7000 converter box to pair with a used Toshiba TiVo series 2. These Toshiba units don't need a subscription to do basic recording functions. To me, this gives me a much better experience for half the price.
post #1328 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

I'm soon punting my dtvpal on craigslist as well. I'd rather have the TiVo interface than having HD. I'm getting the Channel Master 7000 converter box to pair with a used Toshiba TiVo series 2. These Toshiba units don't need a subscription to do basic recording functions. To me, this gives me a much better experience for half the price.

If I recall correctly, the Toshibas used TiVo lite which only went out like 3 days and did not have season-pass. Do you know for sure that TiVo is still transmitting TiVo-lite?

P.S. The CM-7000 output on S-Video is very nice. I have one feeding my Panasonic DVDR which feeds a 50" 1080p plasma and am happy enough with the PQ that I can afford to wait until the bugs are ironed out on the Pal DVR before I buy.
post #1329 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

I'm soon punting my dtvpal on craigslist as well. I'd rather have the TiVo interface than having HD.

wow - do you have a high-def TV? not having one would explain this choice, though everyone has their own reasons...

(I bought a TivoHD for my father, and I HATE the interface!)
post #1330 of 18096
So I had my first reboot last night (set up and running since 12/30). Minor annoyance, but overall still happy.

I'm also still having the skip button move >30 seconds ahead some times (it's been getting a good workout during the BSC bowls). Seems a problem unique to me, maybe I'll see if I can get a replacement remote if it continues.

I did also have an odd occurrence on a scheduled recording. I had one show only record 18 out of 30 minutes. Also, the 30 minute program scheduled to record immediately following (same station) did not record and said it was skipped (DVR-> Daily Schedule) for no reason that we could explain. Maybe it locked up but I was able to use it normally later that evening (and it did record another program later that afternoon) without any action on my part.

Still not enough to make regret my purchase, but I may wait to take the updated poll for a few more days.

===========================
Receiver ID R18800051xxx-xx
Software Version F202TALD-N
Bootstrap Version 1011TALD
Processor ID 29242913
post #1331 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

wow - do you have a high-def TV? not having one would explain this choice, though everyone has their own reasons...

I do have an hdtv, though not a massive one. I mostly watch SD content anyway. Meh. If I want to watch sports I can always use the TV's internal tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

If I recall correctly, the Toshibas used TiVo lite which only went out like 3 days and did not have season-pass. Do you know for sure that TiVo is still transmitting TiVo-lite?

TiVo-lite is still supported. You're right, it's 3-days of guide vs 14. No seasons pass or ToGo. I can live with that. Good to hear you're happy with your CM-7000. It's on the list of TiVo-supported STBs. I'm definitely picking that up next week.
post #1332 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by avshelden View Post

I'm also still having the skip button move >30 seconds ahead some times (it's been getting a good workout during the BSC bowls). Seems a problem unique to me, maybe I'll see if I can get a replacement remote if it continues.

Sometimes skip buttons skip an amount that is proportional to the program length; I've seen that on one of my older units...
post #1333 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by subeluvr View Post

Back in the day when Dish released the 5xx and then the 721 series of DVR-PVR units they had lots of teething??? problems much like the DTVPal DVR is having now.

Many of us Dish paying beta testers discovered that by plugging these units into a modest UPS (NOT a surge-spike protector) we eliminated some of the nagging problems.

Not trying to get these things to run long enough during a power failure to record a movie but to overcome an iffy (marginal) power supply in the chassis.

Smoothing out and cleaning up the line AC eliminated random reboots, failed timer recordings, lockups, lost sat, and other teething problems.

Just a thought and maybe worth a try?

Mine has been connected to a UPS since day 1
(No reboots or lockups)
post #1334 of 18096
Thanks to RegGuheert for your detailed investigation and answer of my post........Sorry about your warranty.......
Also my thanks to chapelrun for your donation.

And also thanks to the many other brave Gamma testers out there.

S
post #1335 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by avshelden View Post

I'm also still having the skip button move >30 seconds ahead some times (it's been getting a good workout during the BSC bowls). Seems a problem unique to me, maybe I'll see if I can get a replacement remote if it continues.

I know the manual says that it is 30 seconds, but mine seems to only skip 28 seconds (I.e. if I hit it at the beginning of the commercial, I catch the last second or so of that same commercial).

I got a 'signal loss error' although the program was in tact. I really like that it picks up the recording after a signal loss. My DVICO tuner attached to my PC just stops with the slightest signal loss from the station.

Seems to happen more often than not at the beginning of primetime programming when my CBS station flips the switch to the national feed.
post #1336 of 18096
BEWARE OF DISH SERVICE -- THEY HAVE TOO MANY PROBLEMS

In my 20 years of being a Manager of a Hardware and Software Support department, I have NEVER seen or heard of such a dismal lack of control of Customer Service.

Contacting Dish for service is complicated by their terrible computer database system. They have a 3 tier system that you are required to use, plus a returns system that is messed up. You first contact their listed number - might be in the Philipines! They don't know anything, so you are passed on to the next level, Tech Service, who are mostly based in the US, but still can't DO anything. The last tier is their Executive Resolution Team who can get things done if they feel like it, but who probably won't CONFIRM anything to you.

Case in point
I received a bad unit and called.
CS took the call and issued me an "account" with directions to return [no RMA given=bad]
Nothing for 1 month.
Called after 1 month. Went thru CS to Tech Service [after 3 call backs and 45 minutes] where they said they never got my unit! I said OK, was insured by USPO and is a Federal Crime if they did receive it to lie. Was put on hold and then told they HAD received it! Then I was told they had closed the transaction!!! After I pushed a bit, and being on hold for another 30 minutes off and on, they told me that they didn't know why it was messed up, but maybe the lack of their issuing an RMA was to blame! Then I was told that the Exec Resolution Team would call me back in a few days. I made sure all this was recorded on their data base system.
3 days passed and no call back.
4th day UPS delivered a new unit!

Conclusions
NEVER return anything without an RMA being issued.
Don't expect anyone to KNOW anything.
Insist on getting a message POSTED TO YOUR ACCOUNT in their system. [So next call they can see what has been going on!!]
Insist on your problem being escalated up the ladder with proper notes in their system.
Be polite - be forceful - be firm -

This is the most dismal service you will ever receive.
post #1337 of 18096
bfdtv - Could be a good idea to add this prominently to the first post. Sounds like good info:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDXTECH View Post

NEVER return anything without an RMA being issued.
Don't expect anyone to KNOW anything.
Insist on getting a message POSTED TO YOUR ACCOUNT in their system. [So next call they can see what has been going on!!]
Insist on your problem being escalated up the ladder with proper notes in their system.
Be polite - be forceful - be firm -
post #1338 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

If you look over at the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread it seems that many are having rebooting issues in the last couple of weeks, too. Maybe it is a TVGOS issue (some are using digital TVGOS on their machines)

Link

Could it be the way the stations are transmitting the data? Is this a geographic occurrence? Are in others in your area not having the problem if you are and vice versa?

I had a Sharp Aquos 37" LCD TV that had TVGOS built in. Very cool TV that could turn itself on, output S-Video (fed to the DVD recorder) and start my DVD recorder with the TVGOS timers I'd set. I wish my new Aquos 46" had that capability. ANYWAY.. it was acknowledged that the TVGOS could lock up the TV, which it occasionally did. Many suspected that the TVGOS was getting bad data, or that a command sent to TVGOS could re-boot the TV.

A Sharp authorized repair tech came out, put a card in the card slot, and upgraded the software, and the TV never locked up again, although it always came on, on a Spanish channel that I never watched.
post #1339 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDXTECH View Post

BEWARE OF DISH SERVICE -- THEY HAVE TOO MANY PROBLEMS

In my 20 years of being a Manager of a Hardware and Software Support department, I have NEVER seen or heard of such a dismal lack of control of Customer Service.

Contacting Dish for service is complicated by their terrible computer database system. They have a 3 tier system that you are required to use, plus a returns system that is messed up. You first contact their listed number - might be in the Philipines! They don't know anything, so you are passed on to the next level, Tech Service, who are mostly based in the US, but still can't DO anything. The last tier is their Executive Resolution Team who can get things done if they feel like it, but who probably won't CONFIRM anything to you.

Case in point
I received a bad unit and called.
CS took the call and issued me an "account" with directions to return [no RMA given=bad]
Nothing for 1 month.
Called after 1 month. Went thru CS to Tech Service [after 3 call backs and 45 minutes] where they said they never got my unit! I said OK, was insured by USPO and is a Federal Crime if they did receive it to lie. Was put on hold and then told they HAD received it! Then I was told they had closed the transaction!!! After I pushed a bit, and being on hold for another 30 minutes off and on, they told me that they didn't know why it was messed up, but maybe the lack of their issuing an RMA was to blame! Then I was told that the Exec Resolution Team would call me back in a few days. I made sure all this was recorded on their data base system.
3 days passed and no call back.
4th day UPS delivered a new unit!

This is the most dismal service you will ever receive.

I was also 'finally' sent to ERT, after only receiving a Dish converter sans the DVR, supposedly sent together in one box, with one UPS tracking number.

After I got the 2 lb box, I called and asked where the DVR was, and they insisted that I should have both items. WELL, not in a 2 lb shipment, so like I said, they finally got me to ERT which took 4 phone calls, and long long wait times. They told me that they'd call me within 2 business days as well, and after 4 days, haven't heard anything.
post #1340 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

I live in an area where cable is not available and I have no interest in paying monthly fees for just about anything.

Ever since I got my HDTV 18 months ago, I have been on the lookout for an OTA HD DVR with no fees. The second I saw this one (back in November), I ordered it.

That pretty much sums up where I'm coming from, also!

Thanks for the excellent review! Nice first post!

Welcome!

Reg
post #1341 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I know the manual says that it is 30 seconds, but mine seems to only skip 28 seconds (I.e. if I hit it at the beginning of the commercial, I catch the last second or so of that same commercial).

That's way better than skipping 32 seconds and miss part of the show (which I hate) and having to back up and watch 8 seconds of a commercial (assuming skip back is actually 10 seconds).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I got a 'signal loss error' although the program was in tact. I really like that it picks up the recording after a signal loss. My DVICO tuner attached to my PC just stops with the slightest signal loss from the station.

Frequent occurrence here, happens at least 2 out of 3 times or more. I never saw any of the program actually missing though.

I suspect the problem is that when the tuner switches to the channel to record, the software is not waiting long enough for the lock to occur before setting a flag that part of the program is missing.
post #1342 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post

...
Frequent occurrence here, happens at least 2 out of 3 times or more. I never saw any of the program actually missing though....

Eariler someone said that the way their skip algorithm works is to find the nearest full frame and go there. It may not be exactly to the second.
post #1343 of 18096
Just to chime in with bits and pieces adding to the numbers.
Pre ordered by internet in november and recieved dec 24. A friend hid it under our tree without telling me
Satisfied Totally with the hd recordings and ease to do so. I am only a little bit anoyed at lockups. My friend quite hates the interuptions. Recording playback looks as good as live. Where have i been, as a pvr seems more necessary than a fine resolution. Never mind, i have been in the ota ntsc snowy reception room. Like the atsc HD.
This is the only (of 6) atsc tuners that alow me to recieve a good but spotty channel. The others dont even let me put it in the list.

System and setup.
No updates or internet connectivity.
Receiver ID 1880051522-38
Reg ID 032
Main Board RR67517T00560M
Software Version F201TALD-N
Bootstrap Version 1011TALD
Processor ID 29247021
connected by hdmi to TV Samsung ln40a630m1f
Antenna old roof antenna. rotator was added for the difficult pbs station.
Stations: Grants Pass oregon retransmiters of medford's full power stations:
KMVU 26.1&2 , KTVL 10.1&2&3 , SOPTV 8.1&2&3

30 power cycles. 4 to 8 user caused. Some reboots, just while watching. Some response lockouts requiring power cycle. Several sneaky unatended reboots. One due to 'A647' hard disk error, please unplug unit for 15 seconds. All return unit gracefully to a recording in progress or able to resume one being viewed. No tvguide data fully populated after cycles. All data and recordings still intact except that recordings scheduled via the tvguide are only marked Pending in the timer list until guide data is populated again.
Tvguide data lately has been weird as only 3 of 8 channels fully populate out to 2 weeks. The others all populate within a few minutes to just a day or so out. 10.1 may populate out fully but not 10.2&3 . 8.1&2 populates but not 8.3 . 26.1&2 have refused to list 2wks worth, the past few days.
Have used it without the smart card and it seems fine but put it back anyway.

Hard drive wd3200AAKS-00vya0 16m cache works. All troubles do not disapear from drive change. Drives are not automatically formatted but rather it is done painlessly in setup. Estimates 45.5 hrs hd recording. Original drive reconnected and held all recordings still playable. Initially looks like using factory restore and other settings do not fix troubles with a new drive installed. The unit is now in a non responsive mode with frozen picture. This while surfing to next channel soptv that is mostly unavailable today. Remote works tv, and pvr function keys blink the pvr light with no effect. About the 5th time have seen this (4?on other drive). This was even after a restore function. Other than that the remote normally works quite responsively and is laid out quite well.
One switch of drives was done in middle of solid dual recording all day with a bunch of timers set further out. system booted up fine. I formatted the used ntfs disk. It seemed too quick to be a full format but whatever. Pvr went right into the recordings not finished on the other disk. System became sluggishly responsive. Power cycle fixed the weirdness.
Back to original drive as it has the best recordings over the past 2 weeks and should be enough room for my time shifting.
Satisfied with purchase. Thanks for all your posts.
post #1344 of 18096
I found this link over in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread.

In the link, it talks of a plan for Macrovision to add web-based services including streaming video to the next version of their program guide. I'm guessing this may be the reason why the DTVPal DVR contains an ethernet connector as well as a smart card.

Thoughts?

Reg
post #1345 of 18096
not to threadcrap, but would a antenna with S-video out allow a tivo series 2 dvr to function without cable or satellite?
post #1346 of 18096
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

I found this link over in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread.

In the link, it talks of a plan for Macrovision to add web-based services including streaming video to the next version of their program guide. I'm guessing this may be the reason why the DTVPal DVR contains an ethernet connector as well as a smart card.

I doubt it.

I'm fairly certain that Dish Network has no interest in using the Macrovision / TVGuide software, which carries with it various licensing requirements. As Dish Network indicated last year, they are interested in selling their own services -- companies can't do that if they use the Macrovision / TVGuide software.
post #1347 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

I found this link over in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread.

In the link, it talks of a plan for Macrovision to add web-based services including streaming video to the next version of their program guide. I'm guessing this may be the reason why the DTVPal DVR contains an ethernet connector as well as a smart card.

Thoughts?

Reg

It may be for Echostar Terrestrial as seen in this link

Quote:


Echostar has started shipping its award winning DTVPal DVR to customers last week. And customers opening the boxes are finding an unexpected surprise and Echostar Smart Card.
....
However in diving deeper into things I got a new application on my iPhone the other night called i.TV. Now iTV is a program which displaying your television program guide on your iPhone. In setting up this program it asked me to select a television provider for my area. It listed my local cable company, Uverse, DirecTV, Dish Network and one very interesting service that peaked my curiosity, on called EchoStar Terrestrial Digital Set-Top.

I chose this one as my program provider and was given a list of 7 cable channels which can apparently be received on a Echostar Terrestrial Digital Set-top box (aka the DTVPal DVR.) The channels in the lineup are as follows:

USA Network - Lifetime - History Channel - ESPN - Disney Channel - Discovery Channel - Fox News Channel.

If these were in HD, I'd pay $5 a month for them...or possibly $1 each if I could pick and choose.
post #1348 of 18096
Who knows, maybe Dish will work a deal with those providers to give the signal for free in hopes that advertisers would foot the bill.
post #1349 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

It may be for Echostar Terrestrial as seen in this link
If these were in HD, I'd pay $5 a month for them...or possibly $1 each if I could pick and choose.

Wow! Discovery and History. Two channels that I would like to have access to, but am unwilling to pay for satellite service just to get them. If I can access them through my new DVR, I might be willing to pay for that, even it it were not HD.

I'll certainly be interested to learn more about this! Unfortunately, since I get internet access through HughesNet satellite, I would need to be able to download them during my unlimited time of 2:00AM to 7:00AM and store them on the DVR for playback later in the day. I doubt they will permit that. We'll see.
post #1350 of 18096
Just curious ...

Any chance the DTVPal DVR has an unpublished ClearQAM tuner?

Has anyone tried connecting a cable network to a DTVPal DVR and scanning for channels?

If so, what were the results?

(Don't try it if you think it will damage the machine.)
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