The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 462

Originally Posted by mabuttra

I think a lot of people did the easiest thing, and switched their zip code to a Baltimore zip code. The Baltimore station doesn't have the clock problems, and is close enough that a lot of people receive it. From what I remember the problem never was fixed with WUSA.

Mark

Originally Posted by P Smith

Listening to you guys here foe last years... , I'm wondering why it's happening at global (your states) scale ?

Is ROVI too greedy for the service and asking a lot of money from stations ?
Or opposite ? The fee is too small and ROVI can mishandle own boxes/data without penalties ?

We never had such issue in Bay Area.

Originally Posted by ccrider2

----"MONEY"----

Might be the key word here. In my opinion, it is inconceivable that the OTA corporate marketing model and DVR usage could coexist peacefully. I don't bypass all commercial, but I do on occasion (in a hurry or already seen that boring oratory) do my fair share. I figure 'large money markets' will be the first to draw a sword to the freedom OTA viewers have to skip commercials. Lets face it, regrettably, it only makes sense. The economy has hit the skids and 'Wall Street' is going to find a way to make a dollar.
Which probably, if one was a bug on the wall, the real reason Dish 'dished' the FREE OTA Guide DVR Project to begin with.

Just an opinion....no knowledge here.

Originally Posted by jrpastore

True, but bear in mind:

1) The only true "freeloaders" using the TVGOS OTA data are owners of the DTVPal and Sony DVRs. Combined they represent such a tiny percentage (actually better expressed in ppm!) of the viewing audience that I strongly doubt the number-crunchers are even aware of them, much less considering them when determining business models.

2) A much larger (but still fairly small) group of OTA viewers make use of the TVGOS data on "approved devices" (mostly TVs). These people are subjected to ads on their guide displays and hence are not "freeloaders", but rather are paying their own way. Also these people are not using DVRs so they don't have the ability to skip through commercials and hence are not a threat to the ad revenue in anyone's business model. Readers of this thread are like the fleas that ride on the birds that ride around on the backs of elephants. No other creatures on the Serengeti give them much thought...

I agree it would be interesting to know the details of the $ exchange between ROVI and the affiliates that host their hardware. I assume ROVI must be paying for the privilege, but one wonders whether many of the Tech Directors at the affiliates will consider the presumed monthly checks from ROVI to be large enough to compensate them for all the frustration the ROVI encoders seem to cause at several stations across the country. Also have to wonder whether the presumably meager ad revenue that ROVI derives from selling ad space on their EPG (for licensed software users) is enough to compensate them for their even larger bucket of frustration. Taken together, I think those two issues and the ever-shrinking population of OTA viewers spell the end of the TVGOS datastream in the not-too-distant future. If/when the ROVI encoders go dark, at least that will release "TV Guide Time Lock" on the DTVPal and owners will still be able to use them in PSIP or manual clock mode. Unfortunately, Sony DVG units will become "boat anchors" at that point.

Originally Posted by jrpastore

True, but bear in mind:

1) The only true "freeloaders" using the TVGOS OTA data are owners of the DTVPal and Sony DVRs. Combined they represent such a tiny percentage (actually better expressed in ppm!) of the viewing audience that I strongly doubt the number-crunchers are even aware of them, much less considering them when determining business models.

Originally Posted by mabuttra

The Sony DHGs are not freeloaders. The Sonys use the official Gemstar (now Rovi) guide. Sony paid Gemstar to use their guide in the Sonys. This was during the days of analog TVGOS. Although Sony did as good as they could to try to support the digital TVGOS, they fell a little short. Sony discontinued the DHG even before digital TVGOS was being sent out. After getting reports that Sony users were having issues with the digital TVGOS data, and noone at Sony was left to work on the problem, Rovi found it easier to tell Sony users that their DVRS were no longer supported.

Originally Posted by mabuttra

As far as Rovi's claim that no approved TVGOS device has this clock issue, I just don't believe that is true. The problem is that the only other TVGOS devices out there are TVs, and if your clock is off on your TV by 6 to 10 minutes, who cares? They aren't going to call Rovi and complain about something like that. Although I know a few people with TVGOS TVs, I don't know anyone who is in the Washington DC area, or I would verify this myself. I just don't believe that a device that has to rely on clock updates from TVGOS, also has the ability to ignore the updates if it feels like they are in error. Especially since the Sony is running the official Gemstar software, but apparently does not have such logic in its code. I just don't believe the logic exists in any of Gemstar's code.

Mark

Originally Posted by mabuttra

The Sony DHGs are not freeloaders. The Sonys use the official Gemstar (now Rovi) guide. Sony paid Gemstar to use their guide in the Sonys. This was during the days of analog TVGOS. Although Sony did as good as they could to try to support the digital TVGOS, they fell a little short. Sony discontinued the DHG even before digital TVGOS was being sent out. After getting reports that Sony users were having issues with the digital TVGOS data, and noone at Sony was left to work on the problem, Rovi found it easier to tell Sony users that their DVRS were no longer supported.

As far as Rovi's claim that no approved TVGOS device has this clock issue, I just don't believe that is true. The problem is that the only other TVGOS devices out there are TVs, and if your clock is off on your TV by 6 to 10 minutes, who cares? They aren't going to call Rovi and complain about something like that. Although I know a few people with TVGOS TVs, I don't know anyone who is in the Washington DC area, or I would verify this myself. I just don't believe that a device that has to rely on clock updates from TVGOS, also has the ability to ignore the updates if it feels like they are in error. Especially since the Sony is running the official Gemstar software, but apparently does not have such logic in its code. I just don't believe the logic exists in any of Gemstar's code.

Mark

Originally Posted by jrpastore

I stand corrected. I thought the analog version of the Sony firmware was licensed (and thus included ads in the EPG) and the newer digital version of the Sony firmware was unlicensed (and thus did not have any ads in the EPG).

Originally Posted by J-D-H

Currently I have the update time set to 6:55 PM. This came from the discussion and recommendations on this subject last year, but I have not personally proven that this time is optimum.

Originally Posted by frank70

As a general point of information, after TVGOS data resumed flowing the other day here in Philly, rebooting the DTVPal DVR by momentarily pulling its plug did NOT result in the TVGOS logo returning to the guide (I waited a full 24 hours); however, doing a factory reset DID result in return of the TVGOS logo within a 12 hour period, and return of all listings within a 24 hour period. Thus I conclude that the only reliable method of getting TVGOS back on this machine after an extended outage is by doing a factory reset (no big deal because the reset does not erase existing recordings.)

Originally Posted by mabuttra

That is a good time. Anytime after 6:25 pm should work. I thought there might be people who record things in the 6:00pm to 7:00pm timeslot, and wouldn't want the DVR rebooting on them during the recording (if it was recording something I'd think that it would skip the update check/reboot). That is why I looked at the 5:30pm time as an option. At 5:30pm, the TVGOS time should be caught back up, but then the last download of the day goes from 5:31pm - 6:16pm, and after that the TVGOS time would be off by about 7 minutes (based on the WHIO data that was posted).

If you check your DVR time at 6:30 pm (before the update check at 6:55) is the clock correct? From what I remember other people saying, the one update reboot kept the clock correct for the next 24 hours. Just wondered if that is still true.

Mark

Originally Posted by J-D-H

One last thing.... Now that Channel Master is selling a new version of the DVR, I wonder if anyone has noticed whether its clock accuracy is improved?

Originally Posted by J-D-H

...
One last thing.... Now that Channel Master is selling a new version of the DVR, I wonder if anyone has noticed whether its clock accuracy is improved? During last year's discussions about the clock, fingers were pointed at WUSA Ch 9, Rovi, TVGOS, etc., but also at possible problems with the operating system within the CM7000PAL. If the latter was truly so, maybe the new DVR is better in this regards?

Originally Posted by J-D-H

[...]
One last thing.... Now that Channel Master is selling a new version of the DVR, I wonder if anyone has noticed whether its clock accuracy is improved? During last year's discussions about the clock, fingers were pointed at WUSA Ch 9, Rovi, TVGOS, etc., but also at possible problems with the operating system within the CM7000PAL. If the latter was truly so, maybe the new DVR is better in this regards?

Originally Posted by mabuttra

From what I have read their new DVR (7400) uses PSIP data by default, or you can pay somewhere between $50.00 to $100.00/year to receive some other guide, which isn't TVGOS.

Mark

Originally Posted by LenL

There are some heat issues with this device. So it may not be ready for prime time. Regarding the guide. Yes it does appear that it uses an internet connection to get a subscription 14 day guide for around $49. However I read some user reviews of this product where people said they did not connect to the internet and received a 7 day guide...must be TVGOS.

Originally Posted by Chuck44

The way I read it it was a PSIP fluke, not TVGOS.

Originally Posted by Chuck44

This is off topic for this thread. That said, the new 7400 gets its time from an Internet connection,
and reports in its thread are that the time is spot on.

Originally Posted by P Smith

I've been given an answer same question:

It's absolutely same HW and FW F2.08 = F4.00 (with changes in lines of "DTV Pal DVR" to "CM7000-PAL").

Originally Posted by mabuttra

From what I have read their new DVR (7400) uses PSIP data by default, or you can pay somewhere between $50.00 to $100.00/year to receive some other guide, which isn't TVGOS.

Mark

Originally Posted by J-D-H

From the tests last year, I would sure prefer to have my clock set via PSIP instead of TVGOS. However since I own two CM7000PALs, I'm kind of stuck with that technology. Who knows, maybe CM will update the FW and make using PSIP a user option (oh sure -- I won't hold my breath until then).

Originally Posted by frank70

If you disable TVGOS in the 7000PAL, it'll surely use PSIP for time (averaging times across stations, and throwing away obvious outlyers, as I understand the latest firmware does.) If you want TVGOS for listings, and PSIP for time, I guess you're out of luck.

Originally Posted by frank70

If you disable TVGOS in the 7000PAL, it'll surely use PSIP for time (averaging times across stations, and throwing away obvious outlyers, as I understand the latest firmware does.) If you want TVGOS for listings, and PSIP for time, I guess you're out of luck.

Originally Posted by keyboard21

Can someone explain to me why used DTVpals are selling for over $200 on Ebay?

This box was pre-sold by Dish for $250. Then sold for $300, Then Sears fire-sale them for $75 to $150 (New)

So why is a used box worth more then a SEARS fire-sale?

Originally Posted by WillN937

On the PAL if if finds TVGOS it uses it for time. All you can turn off is the EPG. At least that is the way mine seems to work.