The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 467

Originally Posted by Scooper

Because Echostar had their developers write to the spec of receiving TVGOS - they did not license software from Rovi. Which is also why when there are problems with it - Rovi is less than helpful.

Originally Posted by frank70

While the TVGOS data might be "miniscule" compared to an MPEG stream for one or more video channels, it's hardly in the range of a few thousand bytes a day. In a typical DMA, there are in the vicinity of 600 channels worth of data for 8 days; conservatively estimating 24 shows per day per channel, that's 115000 shows, each of which carries (among other things) descriptive text on the order of 100-200 bytes. Add in zip code mappings and the graphics for logos/ads, and ancillary show information (start time, end time, rating, new-or-rerun) and I'll bet a single pass of all the data adds up to 25+ megabytes. And multiple passes go by each day on some kind of a schedule which I never became acquainted with.

Originally Posted by jrpastore

I agree completely, the daily bandwidth requirements for TVGOS data, relative to the ATSC capacity of 19 Mbps, can only be described as miniscule and I made that point to KEYE back during the Austin issue. What I don't know is:

- what increments of HD Video compression are available at the station?

- exactly how much "headroom" of empty bandwidth does the ROVI encoder need in order to function without skewing the clock?

In any case, I can still see the station's point of view, that it's not worth their time/trouble/risk to mess with it in order to solve a problem experienced by 0.00001% of their viewers.

Originally Posted by jrpastore

I wouldn't think so, but it would mean "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in that they would either have to further compress their primary HD video stream (degrading picture quality slightly) or get rid of a subchannel in order to free up the additional bandwidth. If you read the email I got from KEYE back in 2010, you'll see how eager some affiliates are to do either of those.



Based on a quick survey of null packets (reserve bandwidth) that we did for TVGOS providing affiliates around the country back in 2010, I'd say "very little" is the answer to your question. But bear in mind this solution (in my jargon "retaining INLINE mode" and simply increasing compression of the HD video to free up more bandwidth) is NOT the solution that ROVI is proposing. Probably because it would leave the station susceptible to recurrence of the problem in the future if some other (even slight) new burden is placed on bandwidth in the future. Rather ROVI is proposing to physically rewire the installation of their encoder (in my jargon "changing to DISCREET mode"). Unlike the answer to your #1 above, this sounds like it would be significantly more effort on the part of the station and would also require the same "robbing Peter to pay "Paul" because if they dedicate a certain bandwidth to the ROVI box and they're evidently already running "full out" then it has to come from somewhere. Again, read the response from the KEYE Tech Director to better understand the affiliate perspective.

Originally Posted by jrpastore

Fantastic analysis! So the working theory that we've had for nearly two years now has been validated in detail by empirical data. Looks like we know exactly what's happening and why and how. We know what ROVI says the fix is, essentially; "Alter the environment of the ROVI box so that it never encounters a lack of bandwidth". Some affiates are evidently unwilling to make those alterations and some of them at least say they are working on it.

Two other interesting points caught my eye in that email from KEYE:

- ROVI doesn't pay the affiliate anything for hosting their equipment

- ROVI's original recommended installation mode was the one I called "INLINE (scavenger)". This means ROVI must have originally thought they had engineered the box to be fault tolerant in that operating environment. So the new ROVI recommendation (re-wire encoder and provide dedicated bandwidth) amounts to a defacto admission that their hardware has proven not to be fault tolerant in their originally recommended environment. I'm guessing a firmware fix wasn't possible and they didn't want to spend the $ to build hundreds of new encoders so they have the nerve to ask the broadcaster (who apparently they aren't even paying!) to spend some engineering resources and accept some bandwidth compromises in order to work around their hardware flaw! Unbelievable!

Originally Posted by P Smith

I could add it for you ... when source code will be available ...

Originally Posted by J-D-H

I don't have the background to understand some of that (600 channels?), but even if 25+ MB is a perfectly decent estimate, that figure still strikes me as miniscule. In fact, it seems so small a percentage of the available bandwidth that I really do not get why any station engineer would fret over the loss of that amount. OTOH, maybe the TVGOS data scheme transmits that 25+ MB way more often per unit time than I realize. If that's so, it leads to other questions.

Originally Posted by J-D-H

I read it earlier, and did find it interesting. Especially telling was the fact that KEYE's tech dir was trying to pawn off the job of carrying the ROVI data on some other station in his market area.

Originally Posted by J-D-H

Someone just said that all DVRs except for the DVRPAL show ads along with the ROVI data, that these ads are generally for CBS-related products, so it seems the ads are in fact the "pay" you are speaking about.

Originally Posted by Echo-Echo

Bought a used DTVPal six months ago and it's been working fine. Today, it appears that the tuner died. The menus show up but no picture - but the signal strength showed something like 147. Clearly wacked. I clicked through some setup menus and now it's stuck in the Antenna Wizard menu. A soft reset with the remote power button and powering down for hours won't shake it.

Any tips on A. getting it to reset, and B. what's up with the tuner?

Originally Posted by P Smith

Bring it to a EE lab ...

Really , how you suppose to fix it ? What could be taken from your description ?
Actually it has two tuners.

Originally Posted by P Smith

Echo-Echo laboratory.

Originally Posted by P Smith

If I'll tell you, there will be drones in 30 min

Originally Posted by P Smith

Bring it to a EE lab ...

Really , how you suppose to fix it ? What could be taken from your description ?
Actually it has two tuners.

Originally Posted by P Smith

C'mon. It's just a room with bunch of testing equipment: scopes, L-analyzers, generators, DMM, FLIRT cameras, iron tools, power supplies ... Like my garage

Originally Posted by P Smith

I could add it for you ... when source code will be available ...

Originally Posted by jrpastore

I don't know if "pawn off" is a fair characterization. I would have done the same thing in his shoes, and I wouldn't feel that I had dodged any responsibility. Remember that he worked the issue with ROVI for months (swapping encoders, etc) prior to writing that email, and remember that CBS ads notwithstanding, he was never compensated for his trouble. I'd say he went "above and beyond" the call of duty and was well within his rights to wash his hands of this ROVI-created mess.

Originally Posted by P Smith

Just take the numbers from my/other posted logs, why you still guessing when I did told where is it the stat with numbers ?

Originally Posted by jrpastore

Maybe so. That would explain why most TVGOS stations are CBS affiliates. It would not explain why any other stations (like the current ABC affiliate in Austin) would bother with ROVI, unless maybe ROVI is coughing up a little cash as a sweetener for the non-CBS stations...

Originally Posted by Jack Morris

Will this hard drive work(well?) in my DTVPal DVR? It is a SATA 7200 500Gb drive but is not listed in the replacement drive list at the beginning of this thread?

Seagate Barracuda ES 500Gb Hard Drive
SATA
7200RPM
3.5"
P/N ST3500630NS

Thanks for the help!