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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 494

post #14791 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Yes I've read that a few times now, searching, re-reading to see if anything's been updated. (Still says you can buy one at Sears for $200!) .
Not sure where "An Ant Farm" is geographically located. smile.gif The TVGOS has always been reliable for me in the DFW area since I got my first DTVPal almost 4 years ago. I recall a couple of years ago I had it go away with an older version F206 I think it was, and it came back when I updated it to F208. But that might have been a result of a full reset too. #7 says "It may periodically go offline for days or weeks for maintenance." I've never seen it do that for any length of time here. KTVT Ch 11 CBS is the station. Do you know of any other TVGOS equipped sets that do work properly in your area? Or did it come back with the default reset?
Yeah, it is outdated but I have not seen any updates of fixing the known issues. wink.gif


Anyways, I am in Los Angeles/LA, CA, USA area.
post #14792 of 18096
A second factory reset, again using my home zip code, recovered the TV Guide logo.  Several hours later, allowing time for a TVGOS transmission to come, I found the usual week's worth on TVGOS info on the channels for which it is available.

What was different between the first and second factory resets, I have no idea.  It does tick me off that I had to reenter all my scheduled manual timers yet again, though.  (Reentering the event timers, with TVGOS restored, was no big shakes, nor was reselecting my preferences.)  From now on if I have to do another factory reset, I'll check for the presence of the TV Guide logo on the guide screens before bothering to reenter any timers.

And Ed, disabling and reenabling TVGOS on the Guide Preferences page didn't do jack; I tried that several times while I wasn't receiving it.
 
post #14793 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

A second factory reset, again using my home zip code, recovered the TV Guide logo.  Several hours later, allowing time for a TVGOS transmission to come, I found the usual week's worth on TVGOS info on the channels for which it is available.
What was different between the first and second factory resets, I have no idea.  It does tick me off that I had to reenter all my scheduled manual timers yet again, though.  (Reentering the event timers, with TVGOS restored, was no big shakes, nor was reselecting my preferences.)  From now on if I have to do another factory reset, I'll check for the presence of the TV Guide logo on the guide screens before bothering to reenter any timers.
And Ed, disabling and reenabling TVGOS on the Guide Preferences page didn't do jack; I tried that several times while I wasn't receiving it.
 
Yeah, this DVR does cause headaches. It's not perfect and does have issues. We all have these weird issues. I am not looking forward to its time change issues again. frown.gif
post #14794 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

And Ed, disabling and reenabling TVGOS on the Guide Preferences page didn't do jack; I tried that several times while I wasn't receiving it.
 
Yeah that'd be too easy! Thanks for the info.
post #14795 of 18096
I just noticed doing the factory reset also fixed a glitch with the Closed Captioning. Before, on one particular station (WFAA 8.1) with the font color set to default or white it would be transparent making it hard to see sometimes. All other channels were white. I could set it to a color like cyan and that would work, but back to white and transparent text again. Now the text is white like it should be.
post #14796 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Yeah that'd be too easy! Thanks for the info.
I wonder why even have this option if it doesn't work. frown.gif
post #14797 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

I just noticed doing the factory reset also fixed a glitch with the Closed Captioning. Before, on one particular station (WFAA 8.1) with the font color set to default or white it would be transparent making it hard to see sometimes. All other channels were white. I could set it to a color like cyan and that would work, but back to white and transparent text again. Now the text is white like it should be.
I never liked this DVR's CC style. I still use one from my 20" CRT TV from 1996. Heh. I still like the black boxes with huge white texts.
post #14798 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I wonder why even have this option if it doesn't work. frown.gif
It may work very well for turning TVGOS off and back on when the machine is accepting TVGOS; it just doesn't seem to work for turning TVGOS on when the machine doesn't want any.

Now that I'm getting TVGOS again, I haven't the nerve to see what happens if I try to turn it off and then back on.
post #14799 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

It may work very well for turning TVGOS off and back on when the machine is accepting TVGOS; it just doesn't seem to work for turning TVGOS on when the machine doesn't want any.
Now that I'm getting TVGOS again, I haven't the nerve to see what happens if I try to turn it off and then back on.
Hmm, who would not want TV Guide and want to use PSID? :O
post #14800 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

A second factory reset, again using my home zip code, recovered the TV Guide logo.  Several hours later, allowing time for a TVGOS transmission to come, I found the usual week's worth on TVGOS info on the channels for which it is available.
What was different between the first and second factory resets, I have no idea.  It does tick me off that I had to reenter all my scheduled manual timers yet again, though.  (Reentering the event timers, with TVGOS restored, was no big shakes, nor was reselecting my preferences.)  From now on if I have to do another factory reset, I'll check for the presence of the TV Guide logo on the guide screens before bothering to reenter any timers.
And Ed, disabling and reenabling TVGOS on the Guide Preferences page didn't do jack; I tried that several times while I wasn't receiving it.
 

As far as I know all enable/disable TVGOS does is cause it to use or not use TVGOS for the EPG. It still uses TVGOS for the time. The only way to get it to search for TVGOS is to do a reset to factory defaults OR change the ZIP code to 00000, do a soft reset, let it set for a while and then set the ZIP code back and do another soft reset.

The prevailing theory is that the DVR stops looking for TVGOS after a few days if it does not find it but once it has found a signal it assumes it should be there so the LOGO remains.

The TVGOS icon is sticky. By that I mean that once it acquires TVGOS the logo will stay until you do a reset even though you are not getting a signal. The point? If you do a reset to factory and there is no signal it will not reacquire since there is nothing to acquire. Perhaps the station started sending the signal after the DVR stopped looking for it and before you did the second reset.

Read this a couple of times until it makes sense because I realize this may be a bit convoluted.
post #14801 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Hmm, who would not want TV Guide and want to use PSID?
Only someone trying it out experimentally, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

The only way to get it to search for TVGOS is to do a reset to factory defaults OR change the ZIP code to 00000, do a soft reset, let it set for a while and then set the ZIP code back and do another soft reset.
Change ZIP to 00000, do soft reset, wait a while, change to correct zip, do another soft reset?  Thanks.  If I'd known that I could have avoided a second factory-defaults reset and not had to do a second reentry of my timers.
Quote:
The TVGOS icon is sticky.
But if you still have seven days of EPG info, you're still getting TVGOS and the logo is current, not just nostalgic.
Quote:
If you do a reset to factory and there is no signal [at that time] it will not reacquire since there is nothing to acquire. Perhaps the station started sending the signal after the DVR stopped looking for it and before you did the second reset.
That could explain it.  Thank you.
 
post #14802 of 18096
Does anyone know if the CM7000-PAL is like the DTV DVR mentioned in this post in that the hard drive can simply be replaced with a larger capacity one? (Are the system /boot files stored in flash as suggested in the section on storage, part 4?
What does an internal drive upgrade involve?


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic#user_A5

"You just need open the case and replace the drive. No drive preparation is needed.

System software is stored on internal flash memory, separate from the hard drive. When you install a new hard drive, the DTVPal DVR boots from flash memory and automatically formats the new drive for use during the usual "Loading Please Wait" start-up screen. When boot up is complete, the full capacity of the new drive is available. Nothing else must be done to use a new hard drive or take advantage of the extra capacity.

Be aware that any drive upgrade will void your 90-day warranty. Dish Network does not provide technical support for upgraded DTVPal DVRs, and makes no guarantee about the reliability or operation of units with upgraded hard drives."


thanks in advance

Rich
post #14803 of 18096
The original drive in mine somehow got corrupted, so I plugged in a new 1 TB drive, and let the DTVPal do the rest. Biggest issue was getting the case apart the first time. BTW no need to worry about the 90 day warranty or Dish tech support. The warranty ended years ago, and I don't think anyone at Dish customer service was even aware of these units existence. Maybe Channel Master offered better customer support and a longer warranty on their version.
post #14804 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardwhc View Post

Does anyone know if the CM7000-PAL is like the DTV DVR mentioned in this post in that the hard drive can simply be replaced with a larger capacity one? (Are the system /boot files stored in flash as suggested in the section on storage, part 4?
...thanks in advance
Rich
CM7000-PAL is the DTV Pal DVR. They are the same device with different labels, UI colors and version number (not a code !) i.e. F4.00 = F2.08.
post #14805 of 18096
Thank you for the explanation on why the logo shows when not aquiring TVGOS. Last year I stopped getting info but the logo was still showing and I didn't understand why. At one point I had one unit showing the logo and another without the logo, now I understand why. I took the units north for the summer, and when I returned and did a fresh installation the logo is gone from both units. No station in my area provides TVGOS anymore, in spite of what Antenna web says.
post #14806 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardwhc View Post

Does anyone know if the CM7000-PAL is like the DTV DVR mentioned in this post in that the hard drive can simply be replaced with a larger capacity one? (Are the system /boot files stored in flash as suggested in the section on storage, part 4?
What does an internal drive upgrade involve?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic#user_A5
"You just need open the case and replace the drive. No drive preparation is needed.
Rich

There are several posts throughout this forum showing variations of external HDD placement. I have one unit that has had an external HDD placement complete with power supply for a year now. It works fabulously and is a snap to change over HDD. It also has the benefit of reduction of stress on the power supply and decrease of heat production internally. The hardest part of the upgrade is opening the case. Give yourself a good hour and then it is a no brainer. I have a newer unit that has time left on the warranty so it is still original. (The repackaged CM-7000pals have a full year warranty so I am waiting to change it over). If you decide to change the HDD I would recommend the external approach and the cost is only about $20 extra. biggrin.gif
post #14807 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardwhc View Post

Dish Network does not provide technical support for upgraded DTVPal DVRs...

 

Nor did they ever, for the non-upgraded ones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Maybe Channel Master offered better customer support....on their version.

 

Not really.

 

You can exchange them for another one during the factory or extended warranty periods (as long as they're still available from the company that sold them to you - otherwise you'll likely get "store credit"), but for technical support or repairs, you're pretty much on your own.


Edited by Rammitinski - 10/31/12 at 2:24am
post #14808 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Quite puzzling description.
Are you sure you can watch new recordings ? Perhaps these are old. Try cold reboot.
Check also your guide - can you pick a channel and view it from there ?


Yes I was able to watch new recordings. It was fine as I would simply wait a few minutes after the program was scheduled to record and start watching. The confusing and frustrating thing is that I could not watch live as it always said there was no signal. I suspect one the tuners failed and the second tuner was recording in the background and that is how I was able to watch delayed recordings.

Since then I have tried to scan and am unable to find any stations. Now I'm stuck In a scanning loop that I can't get out of. I have a bad feeling the dvr is trying to use a bad tuner to scan and that is my problem.

I will try the analog pass through as suggested or a factory reset (if I even can get out of the scan loop). If no dice I think the cm-7400 is in my future as we can't seem to function without a dvr. Scary reviews for that dvr though.

Any last suggestions?
post #14809 of 18096
I could look into it ... worst case you will pay s/h both ways.
post #14810 of 18096
You can find a list of HDDs known to work here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic

Others might work. Some people claim to have successfully installed 1.5 TB drives. Seagate I think.

Also, some folks on this forum prefer to install a replacement drive in an external enclosure. This reduces the overheating issue with the CM-7000PAL, decreases the load on the power supply (since the enclosures have their own) and makes swapping drives so much easier. I think I will go this route when I get around to upgrading my HDD.
post #14811 of 18096
Out of felicidal curiosity, I tried WillN937's earlier suggestion about changing the zip to 00000, doing a soft reset, changing the zip back to one's own, and doing another soft reset.

The first soft reset lost TVGOS, as expected.

The second did not bring it back.

Neither did a factory-default reset (which erased my timers, of course).

Not having the time right then to try another factory-default reset, I left it as it was for a few hours.  Somehow, TVGOS had come back.  The last time I had done a factory-default reset and not gotten TVGOS back, I left it for days (trying a couple of soft resets) and it didn't return until I tried another factory-default reset.

I have to guess that WBBM is intermittent and inconsistent about admitting whether it supplies TVGOS info.
post #14812 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg4jup View Post

You can find a list of HDDs known to work here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic
Others might work. Some people claim to have successfully installed 1.5 TB drives. Seagate I think.
Also, some folks on this forum prefer to install a replacement drive in an external enclosure. This reduces the overheating issue with the CM-7000PAL, decreases the load on the power supply (since the enclosures have their own) and makes swapping drives so much easier. I think I will go this route when I get around to upgrading my HDD.
Any real evidence of that ?

So far I got only negative result: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/8880#post_18340778
post #14813 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Out of felicidal curiosity, I tried WillN937's earlier suggestion about changing the zip to 00000, doing a soft reset, changing the zip back to one's own, and doing another soft reset.
The first soft reset lost TVGOS, as expected.
The second did not bring it back.
Neither did a factory-default reset (which erased my timers, of course).
Not having the time right then to try another factory-default reset, I left it as it was for a few hours.  Somehow, TVGOS had come back.  The last time I had done a factory-default reset and not gotten TVGOS back, I left it for days (trying a couple of soft resets) and it didn't return until I tried another factory-default reset.
I have to guess that WBBM is intermittent and inconsistent about admitting whether it supplies TVGOS info.


TVGOS comes at different times of the day and night. Depending when you do the reset is how long it will take. A few hours is normal. Instant is NEVER happens.

I used to have the schedule and can not find the link. Maybe someone else could post the times for your city
post #14814 of 18096
It wasn't a matter of getting the TVGOS info itself, but rather of getting an indicator that there's a TVGOS carrier for the area.
post #14815 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

It wasn't a matter of getting the TVGOS info itself, but rather of getting an indicator that there's a TVGOS carrier for the area.

From what I've been able to tell, it is the actual listing data that causes the TVGOS logo to appear. The listing data is sent out 8 times per day. The first one of the day occurs at 12:56 am, and the last one of the day is at 4:41 pm. Each download lasts 25 minutes. If you do a "Factory Defaults" at 5:00pm, you will not get the TV Guide logo until after 1:00 am (8 hours later). There is numerous data that they could have used to trigger the TV Gude logo. Data such as GMT timestamps that are sent out every 15 seconds, zip code packets which are sent out every 30 seconds, timezone packets which are sent out every 30 minutes (the timezone packet is what causes the clock to grey out, and then it can no longer be set manually), and various other pieces of data that are sent out at various times, but the DTVPal programmers chose to have the listing download trigger the logo.

Mark
post #14816 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherClone View Post

...If no dice I think the cm-7400 is in my future as we can't seem to function without a dvr. Scary reviews for that dvr though.
Any last suggestions?

There is a seller on eBay (sorry but eBay linking is not allowed here) who is selling factory-refurbished Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVRs for $279.99 with free shipping. They currently list a quantity available of 34. These factory-refurbished units come with a 1-year warranty from Channel Master and may be a better (and less costly) option than a CM-7400.

There is also another seller on eBay offering the same factory-refurbished CM-7000PAL DVRs for $319.99 plus $13.27 shipping. They currently list a quantity available of 10.
post #14817 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

It wasn't a matter of getting the TVGOS info itself, but rather of getting an indicator that there's a TVGOS carrier for the area.

From what I've been able to tell, it is the actual listing data that causes the TVGOS logo to appear. The listing data is sent out 8 times per day.
Yes, that's been explained before (perhaps by you among other posters).
Quote:
There is numerous data that they could have used to trigger the TV Gude logo ... but the DTVPal programmers chose to have the listing download trigger the logo.
Of the four times I've been through a factory-default startup -- once upon originally connecting the unit and three times since then by manually selecting "factory defaults" -- only the fourth has behaved according to your description.

  • Original connection: logo was there from the start.
  • First manual factory-default reset: no logo even a week later.
  • Second manual restart: logo was there from the start.
  • Third manual restart: logo appeared several hours later, likely around the time of a TVGOS update.


It's hard to believe that the original connection and my second restart both chanced to occur at times of the day when the cold reboot procedure would get to the point of checking for TVGOS availability just at one of the lucky eight moments per day when a TVGOS download was beginning.

As for my first cold restart, I asked on the Chicago OTA thread whether WBBM was perhaps not sending TVGOS for a few days and got no direct answer, but I'd expect that if they weren't, the hue and cry would have been audible.  At that, what is the likelihood that, after a week with no TVGOS, it would return just at the right moment for my second manual restart to see it at the perfect point in the process?
post #14818 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Yes, that's been explained before (perhaps by you among other posters).Of the four times I've been through a factory-default startup -- once upon originally connecting the unit and three times since then by manually selecting "factory defaults" -- only the fourth has behaved according to your description.
  • Original connection: logo was there from the start.
  • First manual factory-default reset: no logo even a week later.
  • Second manual restart: logo was there from the start.
  • Third manual restart: logo appeared several hours later, likely around the time of a TVGOS update.
It's hard to believe that the original connection and my second restart both chanced to occur at times of the day when the cold reboot procedure would get to the point of checking for TVGOS availability just at one of the lucky eight moments per day when a TVGOS download was beginning.
[..]

If you saw the logo from the start after a 'Factory Defaults', then that is just another bug in the DTVPal. The DTVPal has to search for the TVGOS data, which probably takes at least 10 minutes. It takes my Sony about 12 minutes to find the data. I have done multiple 'Factory Defaults' at various times, and have never had the logo appear immediately. Due to the DST change (and seeing that some of my timers for next week were already showing signs that they were going to misfire), I did a 'Factory Defaults' about 7:30 pm last night. I checked again about 11:00pm, and there was no logo (as expected). I checked again this morning, and the logo was back (also as expected). Previously I have done 'Factory Defaults' about 30 minutes before the start of a listings download, and had the logo by the time it was over. I've also done a 'Factory Defaults' just after the listing download, and verified the logo did not come back until the next listings download. I was initially intrigued by the TV Guide logo, because the Sony (and other TVGOS devices) don't have an indicator like that. I was curious what exactly made the logo appear, which is why I did all these tests.

Mark
post #14819 of 18096
Do you think the logo would show up immediately if a factory-default reset reached that point *during* a TVGOS update?  Then there would be eight twenty-five-minute periods per day when it could happen, not just eight fleeting instants.

That still wouldn't explain why, after the first time I did it, the logo still hadn't returned a week later, let alone why it was back immediately upon the next reset.
post #14820 of 18096
I would suggest these UK SW guys (who wrote the FW) wouldn't answer to the question with full confidence.
- They did they job using 8VSB test equipment (UK OTA has DVB-T/T2 standard).
- They didn't reveal to us how to use debug features (perhaps USB-Serial dongle) to see real stream(s) processing.

For now everyone could observe the DVR's behavior as black box. It would be good if you'll run TSReader with independent USB OTA tuner to see what in a stream the second when TVGuide logo appearing.
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