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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 495

post #14821 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

From what I've been able to tell, it is the actual listing data that causes the TVGOS logo to appear. The listing data is sent out 8 times per day. The first one of the day occurs at 12:56 am, and the last one of the day is at 4:41 pm. Each download lasts 25 minutes. If you do a "Factory Defaults" at 5:00pm, you will not get the TV Guide logo until after 1:00 am (8 hours later). There is numerous data that they could have used to trigger the TV Gude logo. Data such as GMT timestamps that are sent out every 15 seconds, zip code packets which are sent out every 30 seconds, timezone packets which are sent out every 30 minutes (the timezone packet is what causes the clock to grey out, and then it can no longer be set manually), and various other pieces of data that are sent out at various times, but the DTVPal programmers chose to have the listing download trigger the logo.
Mark

On top of that, when you change the ZIPCODE or do a reset to factory defaults it has to find the station that is sending data for that DMA. It can take a while and you don't know whether there is no signal or the DVR just can't find it. Right now I don't get a signal from the Dayton station but can sync with Cincinnati within a few hours.
post #14822 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Do you think the logo would show up immediately if a factory-default reset reached that point *during* a TVGOS update?  Then there would be eight twenty-five-minute periods per day when it could happen, not just eight fleeting instants.
That still wouldn't explain why, after the first time I did it, the logo still hadn't returned a week later, let alone why it was back immediately upon the next reset.

Before the DTVPal can even see the TVGOS listing data, you have to set the zip code. This step comes very late in the setup process. Then the DTVPal has to seek out the TVGOS data, which takes several minutes. I know it takes several minutes, because if I do the 'Factory Defaults', and finish the setup about 5 minutes before the listing download starts, I will not get the logo (because the DVR was still searching for the TVGOS data, when the download was supposed to start). I then have to wait for the next listing download for the logo to appear.

I also want to clarify, during the initial setup, on the screen where you set the zip code, there is a TV Guide logo that looks identical to the one on the guide listings screen. However, that is not the same logo as what I am talking about. That logo is always there. The logo I am talking about appears only on the guide listings screen. I thought maybe that you had seen the logo on the zip code screen, and thought it indicated that TVGOS was already there.

Also, in your initial 4 bullets listing, I want to verify that the "manual restart" you mention is actually a 'Factory Defaults', and not the 10 second power button restart that does a hard reset but not a 'Factory Defaults' reset.

Mark
post #14823 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

.... I was curious what exactly made the logo appear, which is why I did all these tests.
Mark

For what it is worth what I have observed is that the logo appears before the guide is populated so I am thinking as soon as it sees the time it displays the logo. I have had it take close to a day to get a full 8 days of data. Once it gets the time from TVGOS even if TVGOS goes away when you go to the date/time set menu it will say time is set by TVGOS and you can't change it.
post #14824 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Before the DTVPal can even see the TVGOS listing data, you have to set the zip code. This step comes very late in the setup process. Then the DTVPal has to seek out the TVGOS data, which takes several minutes.
Yes; that's why I spoke of the point in the reset process where the unit reaches that stage rather than the beginning of it.
Quote:
I also want to clarify, during the initial setup, on the screen where you set the zip code, there is a TV Guide logo that looks identical to the one on the guide listings screen. However, that is not the same logo as what I am talking about. That logo is always there. The logo I am talking about appears only on the guide listings screen. I thought maybe that you had seen the logo on the zip code screen, and thought it indicated that TVGOS was already there.
I was talking only about the one on the Guide screens; I'd pointed out the same distinction in an earlier post and didn't want to keep saying it again, so I didn't repeat it that time.
Quote:
Also, in your initial 4 bullets listing, I want to verify that the "manual restart" you mention is actually a 'Factory Defaults', and not the 10 second power button restart that does a hard reset but not a 'Factory Defaults' reset.
Yes, those were resets to factory defaults, which I was not confusing with a soft reboot from holding the power key down.  It just got repetitive to keep using the words "factory defaults," so a couple of times I referred to them as manual restarts after, I had thought, establishing that I was talking about resets to factory defaults.  In fact, I tried several such soft reboots during the week when TVGOS wasn't coming back, and they had no effect.
post #14825 of 18096
FYI, the consensus over on the Sony DVR thread is that Rovi is pulling the plug on TVGOS... it has already been discontinued in some cities and apparently will be history within 6 months. Better start writing letters to the FCC urging them to require that stations provide multi-day PSIP guide data (7 days would be nice).
Edited by frank70 - 11/5/12 at 4:30pm
post #14826 of 18096
I wouldn't panic like that without reading real ROVI document(s).
post #14827 of 18096
I'm not panicing... the engineer from Rovi quoted in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559681 may well be all wet, but stations ARE getting contacted by Rovi and told to pull the plug for some reason.
post #14828 of 18096
Just expanding one particular station's outcome ... IT wouldn't be correct to say ROVI will cease the stream totally.
post #14829 of 18096
I had a problem crop up on 4 November and my DVR still isn't back to normal.

The problems started shortly after noon when I turned it on. Except that it didn't because it was stuck in the infamous reboot loop. (Yes it is the F208 firmware.) I tried disconnecting the coax to get its attention but that failed. I had to dig up a shorting plug to put on the connector to keep stray RF out of it.

After that a factory defaults reset and it was kind of back to normal except for one thing: it was convinced that it was still daylight savings time. I fiddled around a bit and waited for it to find TVGOS and it finally did get the time correct. At which point I noticed that a couple of events I had set had odd times: 8:00 to 8:00 standard time. I deleted them.

Everything worked OK through the evening but today I noticed that the time is back to daylight savings time. An event set overnight recorded an hour early.

I entertained the possibility that a reset to factory defaults on the day of the DST change might be part of the problem so I did it again today but it didn't help.

Even more fun is that when I go through the setup menu and select DST not observed, it refuses to accept it.
post #14830 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Just expanding one particular station's outcome ... IT wouldn't be correct to say ROVI will cease the stream totally.

Right now my local CBS station is not sending TVGOS OR PSIP.
post #14831 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

Right now my local CBS station is not sending TVGOS OR PSIP.
Is someone monitoring the TVGOS stream in your area ? Or you judge by the DVR behavior ?
post #14832 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Just expanding one particular station's outcome ... IT wouldn't be correct to say ROVI will cease the stream totally.
Please also read this post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25320#post_22560620 . We apparently now have a name at Rovi who confirms it's true.
post #14833 of 18096
Is it real ? "April 31, 2013" - the day is not exist in our calendar, duh !
post #14834 of 18096
well.....that's just swell.......mad.gif
post #14835 of 18096
So the problem with the Sony DVRs I know nothing about, is they rely on TVGOS as the only way to set the clock? That ain't too cool. My 5 year old Sony TV has TVGOS built in but I haven't used it. Was usually innacurate and carried CBS ads. Sony must have thought TVGOS would sell sets. Not knowing the headaches it can cause!
At least the DTVPal will let you set the time manually. A big plus.
I've seen both of my DVTPals auto-set the clock during initial setup pretty quickly, well before it found the TVGOS signal. Seems to me it sets the clock to the PSIP data.
post #14836 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Seems to me it sets the clock to the PSIP data.
Only until it finds a TVGOS signal.
post #14837 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

.....At least the DTVPal will let you set the time manually. A big plus.
I've seen both of my DVTPals auto-set the clock during initial setup pretty quickly, well before it found the TVGOS signal. Seems to me it sets the clock to the PSIP data.

From the Dish F208 Release Notes, this is how the DVR acquires time (with firmware version F208 installed):

The following issues have been addressed and are fixed in this release:
• Stop PSIP time sources adjusting time when TVGOS time has been acquired. This is the behavior where the time is seen to jump back and forth when TVGOS is the time source.
• Improved handling for inaccurate PSIP time sources, using a weighted mean calculation to select the correct time. Also added guards to handle daylight savings transitions being signalled incorrectly.
• Initial time is now acquired from all available PSIP time sources during installation. Once (if) TVGOS time is acquired, this will be used as the time source.
post #14838 of 18096
I just bought a used DTVPAL DVR for a friend, I have two units myself. Got the unit set it up and the time comes up 1 hour off, checked the settings made sure it was set to central time and for Daylight savings time and set the zip code.

Gave it a couple days to see if it could adjust itself correctly but it did not. Next thing I tried was resetting the factory defaults and then going thru the whoe set up wizard and that worked, the time was correct for a while, after midnight sometime the time was off an hour again.

Any ideas, has the 208 firmware the same as my two units, my units made the daylight savings time change just fine.


Jeff
post #14839 of 18096
Refresh FW in it.
post #14840 of 18096
It has the firmware version that I want, that would be the last resort for me, any other ideas??
post #14841 of 18096
I think he is saying reinstall F208.
post #14842 of 18096
I mean refresh the flash with FW; it designed as awkward storage: it's constantly shuffling FW and user's setting (by moving data/code between the chip's sectors), channel's list, etc. Sometime it come to very bad status (reboot loop), sometime just behave weirdly.
post #14843 of 18096
Say a prayer. I have 2 units on same antenna, 1 setup fine day after Daylite change, other unit sets up for central time but is shpwing 1 hour later than correct unit.
Guide is of course also wrong time. Selected shows record ok but offtime is confusing. Tried doing several default resets, a couple of power downs and just
tried powerdown in start of default reset. Left power off for 6 hours and am waiting to see what happens when TVGOS is loaded.
post #14844 of 18096
Does anyone have a link to the F208 firmware or could email it to me, I tried a couple links previous threads without success.

Thanks Jeff
post #14845 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztecf View Post

Does anyone have a link to the F208 firmware or could email it to me, I tried a couple links previous threads without success.
Thanks Jeff
The first post's link seems to still download for me as phpQYEZB5. I am not sure if that is the correct filename though.
post #14846 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Is someone monitoring the TVGOS stream in your area ? Or you judge by the DVR behavior ?

DVR and DTVPal both fail to acquire a signal. No program listing for local CBS station on DVR or TV.
post #14847 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

The first post's link seems to still download for me as phpQYEZB5. I am not sure if that is the correct filename though.
We had the name posted a few times in the same thread ... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/13770#post_21547737
post #14848 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Is it real ? "April 31, 2013" - the day is not exist in our calendar, duh !
This (from the Sony DVR forum) is quite official: http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/86823/
post #14849 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

This (from the Sony DVR forum) is quite official: http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/86823/
That really sux, seeing as how a portion of the price we paid for the PalDVR went to Rovi,
specifically for TVGOS service.
post #14850 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

That really sux, seeing as how a portion of the price we paid for the PalDVR went to Rovi,
specifically for TVGOS service.
Yes, we put our money in the meter... and now the meter has run out.

The actual solution to this (for DTVPal DVR users, but unfortunately not for Sony DVR users) is to urge stations (either directly or through the FCC) to populate their PSIP-based guides for multiple days in the future. The ATSC specs certainly provide for this technically, it's just a matter of motivation and follow-through on the part of the stations.
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