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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 499

post #14941 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Why not ADs in the guide just like the cable company's? Or ask for donations like PBS . I am sure many would donate $5 to have a TVguide.

Advertising and donations only work when there is a large user base. There is no way anyone could get enough money to make running the service profitable when the only people in the country with TVGOS-enabled devices are the half dozen users on this forum. tongue.gif (Yes, there are probably more people with TVGOS than that, most of whom will be shocked when it stops working, but since TVGOS is no longer standard for new TV sets and most DVRs have their own proprietary guide sources, there are no longer enough TVGOS users for anyone to make money by keeping the service active).

An effort to get the FCC to mandate that all stations transmit 16 days of PSIP data would be more economical, more useful (since all ATSC sets and DVRs support PSIP to some degree), and more likely to succeed.
post #14942 of 18096
Might I suggest filing an online complaint to the FCC ( www.fcc.gov ) I've done this in the past regarding our local NBC station only sending out 10-12 hours of PSIP. In light of this TVGOS situation maybe they will get off their fat duffs and do something. It's a simple form to do and who knows...something may come of it. One can only hope at this point. I'd be very happy with even a lousy 7 days of PSIP.
post #14943 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

...since all ATSC sets and DVRs support PSIP to some degree...
All except the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 DVR, unfortunately.
post #14944 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Thanks for the info. Must be the reason. . Rovi might be in violation of the court order from the lawsuit they lost to Dish or was it Echostar. One of them. They gave the use of the TVGOS as part of a settlement they lost.
They haven't even answered my e-mail

It was a settlement between Gemstar and Echostar to resolve differences instead of going to court. A settlement cannot be "lost" A lawsuit can be.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20040302005432/en/EchoStar-Gemstar-TV-Guide-Sign-License-Distribution-Asset
post #14945 of 18096
So a couple of questions arise; what does Echostar-Dish have to do with all the Sony and probably other products out there that featured TVGOS? And will this have an effect on the TV Guide to Dish Network subscribers?

BTW... TVGOS is still working here in Dallas-FW , listings out the full 7 days.
post #14946 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

So a couple of questions arise; what does Echostar-Dish have to do with all the Sony and probably other products out there that featured TVGOS? And will this have an effect on the TV Guide to Dish Network subscribers?
BTW... TVGOS is still working here in Dallas-FW , listings out the full 7 days.

Echostar-Dish has nothing to do with the Sonys. The only thing common between them is that both the DTVPal, and Sony DHG can tap into the data being sent out by Rovi, and use it to fill the listing data. The Sony relies much more heavily on this functionality, since it has no "backup" to TVGOS like the DTVPal does with PSIP data.

Mark
post #14947 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Echostar-Dish has nothing to do with the Sonys.

Reason I brought that up was because seems like Dish is getting all the blame for the agreement running out and TVGOS OTA going away, and all others including Sony owners suffering the consequences. Certainly Sony had a deal with Rovi to include it in their sets, like my 5 year old Sony 40V4100 TV. A prominent feature is the TVGOS. Anyway, glad the DTVPal DVR will still be mostly functional afterward, since I own two of them.
post #14948 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Reason I brought that up was because seems like Dish is getting all the blame for the agreement running out and TVGOS OTA going away, and all others including Sony owners suffering the consequences. Certainly Sony had a deal with Rovi to include it in their sets, like my 5 year old Sony 40V4100 TV. A prominent feature is the TVGOS. Anyway, glad the DTVPal DVR will still be mostly functional afterward, since I own two of them.

Two reasons... some of it is misplaced anger, the other is mistaking "they" in a statement like this "Why did they do this to us?" with Dish instead of Rovi. Someone reads that statement in the Dish DTVPal thread, and of course "they" must be referring to Dish/Echostar.

Mark
post #14949 of 18096
Several stations in the Nashville area are broadcasting between 48-72 hours of PSIP data, and that is wonderful. Several others, however, are only sending 10, muchless 12 or 24.

I have sent e-mails to the engineers in three stations in my area pleading with them to enhance their PSIP data. The ABC affiliate engineer replied late Friday asking exactly how much I could see from his station, and stating that they were working on that system at present (I assume at least trying to fix the feed from 10-12), so maybe I'll get lucky there and they will be able to start sending out multiple days like the NBC and Fox stations.

I have finally looked at the actual requirements. I guess I didn't read closely enough in these threads....I had always thought 24 was required, but it is only recommended. Four three hour block are all that are mandated.

PSIP Guide For Broadcasters
Quote:
There are several Event Information Tables, each of which describes the events or television programs associated with each of the virtual channels listed in the VCT. Each EIT is valid for a time interval of three hours. Because the maximum number of EITs is 128, up to 16 days of programming may be advertised in advance. At minimum, the first four EITs must always be present in every transport stream, and 24 are recommended.
post #14950 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Indy market area.......Noticed that I have no TVGOS logo as of last night. I assume they dumped us here in Central Indiana.
mad.gif
mad.gif
mad.gif

Let us know how your DVR continues to function in the absence of TVGOS. I'd be especially interested to know if your clock remains stable and accurate and if your program timers fire as scheduled.

Earlier versions of the DTVPal DVR firmware (F201 through F207) were notorious for a very unstable clock that would jump all over the place for some users and would sometimes lead to missed or shortened recordings. This behavior was much worse in areas that did not have TVGOS and that relied solely on PSIP times to set the clock. Firmware version F208 was "supposed" to have solved these clock problems but I have never used the F208 firmware in the absence of TVGOS. I would expect that the majority of users on this forum have been using F208 with TVGOS and, like me, have little experience using just PSIP data to set the clock and fill in the program guide.
post #14951 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

An effort to get the FCC to mandate that all stations transmit 16 days of PSIP data would be more economical, more useful (since all ATSC sets and DVRs support PSIP to some degree), and more likely to succeed.

A TV engineer's response in the Charlotte, NC-OTA forum to my question about extended PSIP shows some of the problems this would present.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/486246/charlotte-nc-ota/5250#post_22574775
post #14952 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

A TV engineer's response in the Charlotte, NC-OTA forum to my question about extended PSIP shows some of the problems this would present.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/486246/charlotte-nc-ota/5250#post_22574775
Ugh. Basically, it needs to support the lowest denominators with those cheap/low end converter boxes. frown.gif
post #14953 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post

Several stations in the Nashville area are broadcasting between 48-72 hours of PSIP data, and that is wonderful. Several others, however, are only sending 10, muchless 12 or 24.
If every station provides at least twelve hours of upcoming PSIP guide, you're fortunate.  Many stations in the Chicago market provide none: no titles, no synopses, not even start and end times.  Of those that do, most supply only three to six hours’ worth.
Quote:
I have finally looked at the actual requirements. I guess I didn't read closely enough in these threads....I had always thought 24 was required, but it is only recommended. Four three hour block are all that are mandated.
Even if the current block block counts, it would still mean that at least nine hours of future listings are required.  Few stations meet that.
post #14954 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

A TV engineer's response in the Charlotte, NC-OTA forum to my question about extended PSIP shows some of the problems this would present.

It's hard to believe the converter boxes could have been released without supporting PSIP properly. The ability to send 16 days of schedule information is part of the ATSC standard, and the boxes were released with the promise that they would allow people to use ATSC with their old TV sets. If some boxes don't support it, or even worse crash when sent legitimate PSIP, that's the fault of the manufacturer, and the responsibility for fixing it should lie with that company.
post #14955 of 18096

Re CECB choking on PSIP:

 

I know of only one CECB that chokes on too much PSIP:  Dish TR40 (probably the TR40+ as well).   Ironic if Dish is the main sticking point to getting more PSIP for the TR50. 

 

Choking on PSIP was IMO an Echostar design flaw -- the TR40 loads even deleted channels into the guide.  And I had more than most, 35 subchannels, generally with 3 days PSIP, and 2 stations (7 subchannels) went out 6-7 days.   I am not sure how the TR40 prioritized stations for the guide, but my biggest data hog, a deleted station, was among the first to load.  It had 5 subchannels, 7+ days of PSIP, and even worse, someone at the station from time to time entered 20-30 'programs' per hour.  No kidding.  rolleyes.gif  The TR40 supposedly deletes expired guide in standby and downloads at startup.  But it seemed to pause at startup, deleting future guide info as it tried to make room.  That's when I got lockups, not often, but not 100% reliable.  The main hassle was if I wanted guide info on a channel that loaded after the memory was full, I had to sit on that channel for half an hour to get the guide info to load.

 

None of my other CECBs choked on data.  Most weren't designed to show much guide, but my Zinwell Zat (with the 'hidden' bonus EPG) could accept 16 days PSIP.  The most I ever saw was 8 days, but it also went backwards, which was occasionally useful.  It took longer to fill the guide a week out, but it never locked up. 

 

These days, my stations don't show as much PSIP.  The 6 day station now shows 3 days, 1 day is common, and there are a couple 12 hour PSIPs as well.  Things tend to fall apart on the weekend.  Even so, if we can overcome any reluctance to let the TR40 choke itself, PSIP may be the best chance for a guide.  Without a week, the search function is useless.

post #14956 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

It was a settlement between Gemstar and Echostar to resolve differences instead of going to court. A settlement cannot be "lost" A lawsuit can be.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20040302005432/en/EchoStar-Gemstar-TV-Guide-Sign-License-Distribution-Asset
So they are in violation of the settlement. Rovi is
post #14957 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

So they are in violation of the settlement. Rovi is
Rovi is what?
post #14958 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Indy market area.......Noticed that I have no TVGOS logo as of last night. I assume they dumped us here in Central Indiana.
mad.gif
mad.gif
mad.gif

You might want to check RabbitEars to see if there is another station in your area that transmits TVGOS and that you can receive at your location. I would imagine that you would have to do a reset to factory defaults to get the DVR to start looking for a TVGOS signal from one of your received stations. You may also have to change your zip code to one that is local to the station whose TVGOS signal you are trying to capture.

In my area I had two local stations that were transmitting TVGOS and I could receive them both equally as well at my location. I just heard from the station engineer at the local PBS station that was transmitting TVGOS that they stopped transmitting TV Guide data "several weeks ago." frown.gif Luckily the CBS station that I am receiving is still transmitting TVGOS but who knows how long that will last. I emailed the engineering department and am waiting to hear back. There has been some speculation on the TVGOS thread that the PBS stations are shutting down TVGOS first (before the CBS stations) and this goes along with what is happening in my local area.
Edited by trp2525 - 11/12/12 at 6:29am
post #14959 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Why not ADs in the guide just like the cable company's? ....
Real (supported) TVGOS software does display advertisements.
post #14960 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

Real (supported) TVGOS software does display advertisements.
For the past year or so, all they've been advertising are shows on CBS.
post #14961 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Ugh. Basically, it needs to support the lowest denominators with those cheap/low end converter boxes. frown.gif
After this amount of time I wonder how many CECBs are still in use. I have been using mine to convert the TVGOS for my old Panasonic recorder but I would assume most people have a DTV now that prices have gone down.

The DVR only displays 7 days so it would not help us if they did send 16 days. Would 16 days break our boxes? I don't know.
post #14962 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

.... There has been some speculation on the TVGOS thread that the PBS stations are shutting down TVGOS first (before the CBS stations) and this goes along with what is happening in my local area.
Both Dayton and Cincinnati CBS stations have stopped.
post #14963 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I just heard from the station engineer at the local PBS station that was transmitting TVGOS that they stopped transmitting TV Guide data "several weeks ago."
In my area there were two TVGOS providers, the PBS station and the CBS station.
The PBS station stopped sending TVGOS a year ago.
post #14964 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

You might want to check RabbitEars to see if there is another station in your area that transmits TVGOS and that you can receive at your location. I would imagine that you would have to do a reset to factory defaults to get the DVR to start looking for a TVGOS signal from one of your received stations. You may also have to change your zip code to one that is local to the station whose TVGOS signal you are trying to capture.
In my area I had two local stations that were transmitting TVGOS and I could receive them both equally as well at my location. I just heard from the station engineer at the local PBS station that was transmitting TVGOS that they stopped transmitting TV Guide data "several weeks ago." frown.gif Luckily the CBS station that I am receiving is still transmitting TVGOS but who knows how long that will last. I emailed the engineering department and am waiting to hear back. There has been some speculation on the TVGOS thread that the PBS stations are shutting down TVGOS first (before the CBS stations) and this goes along with what is happening in my local area.

TRIP,
WFYI is my only channel that carries the TVGOS signal.
I've attached a TSReader export file for WFYI, if interested in upgating RabbitEars.

So far...Recordings have been spot-on, perhaps a bit more lead time. My only gripe, I guess, is that I can't look out in advance to schedule something I know is going to air. I resorted to my TiVo guide to catch a couple, then just set manual timers for those. This box, being in the bedroom, is only used for 6 timers. So I guess living without the guide isn't as disastrous to me as many would find it.
Ch 21 WFYI - November 12 2012.zip 2k .zip file
post #14965 of 18096
ccrider2, according your file, there is no TVGOS stream.
post #14966 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Rovi is what?
in violation of the settlement.
post #14967 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

Both Dayton and Cincinnati CBS stations have stopped.

I think WKRC in Cincinnati is still providing TVGoS. I just checked and I have a full 7 days of guide data.
post #14968 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

ccrider2, according your file, there is no TVGOS stream.

I think that is what he was trying to verify, that the TVGOS data is gone.
post #14969 of 18096
I read his "WFYI is my only channel that carries the TVGOS signal." as present time ...
post #14970 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I read his "WFYI is my only channel that carries the TVGOS signal." as present time ...

Yes, but the entire next paragraph he talks like his TVGOS is already gone. Also two days ago he said his TV Guide logo was gone, and it looked like TVGOS had already disappeared.
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