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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 500

post #14971 of 18096
Lost a hope for that area ...
post #14972 of 18096
Question;
If one would enter a zip code for another area, well away from yours in another DMA, will this still acquire data assuming your host is/was up and running?
post #14973 of 18096
Seeking clarification from the engineer/techie audience--

I too have lost the TVGOS stream in NE Ohio. In reading the many posts, references have been made that TVGOS is only available to DVR's enabled with internet connectivity. Is this true or perhaps, misleading? Not being a techie, I think that downloads (say weekly) aren't available from ROVI for public use and... IF they were, would they not have to be in a stream format that the DTVPal could upload either through it's RJ45 ethernet jack or auto-routine through its USB port...and that capability would also require an update to the F208 firmware so it could interpret the packeted data? I guess what I am asking here is that it's not as simple as downloading iTunes file and pushing the data into the DTVPal? When references are made to DVR's with internet connectivity only getting TVGOS, are we really just talking about DVR's tethered to paid satellite or cable services?/WSABCPA95
post #14974 of 18096
P. Smith, post 14804, thank you for the clarification on PAL 7000 being same as DTV DTR.
post #14975 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsabcpa95 View Post

Seeking clarification from the engineer/techie audience--
I too have lost the TVGOS stream in NE Ohio. In reading the many posts, references have been made that TVGOS is only available to DVR's enabled with internet connectivity. Is this true or perhaps, misleading? Not being a techie, I think that downloads (say weekly) aren't available from ROVI for public use and... IF they were, would they not have to be in a stream format that the DTVPal could upload either through it's RJ45 ethernet jack or auto-routine through its USB port...and that capability would also require an update to the F208 firmware so it could interpret the packeted data? I guess what I am asking here is that it's not as simple as downloading iTunes file and pushing the data into the DTVPal? When references are made to DVR's with internet connectivity only getting TVGOS, are we really just talking about DVR's tethered to paid satellite or cable services?/WSABCPA95
This DVR ONLY gets TVGOS data via OTA, NOT from the Internet.
post #14976 of 18096
I posted these two messages on the TVGOS thread but maybe someone here lives in the Santa Clara area. How about P Smith? Don't I recall you live in the Bay area? Someone needs to actually make contact soon or this is going away. eek.gif

Has anyone in the Santa Clara area considered just walking up to their front door and talking with them? How about asking what it would take to keep the service on going? There must be a number that would encourage them to continue. If we have that we at least would have a starting point for discussion. Anyone? What do we have to lose at this point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA

I had thought that on-going TVGOS support was thru the revenue generated by the left-side ads. Though, I have to wonder if someone believes that there are too few people viewing these ads on TVGOS anymore. Possibly, this warning message was also intended to get those still using TVGOS to raise their hands, and be counted.
Possibly, we need to "help" Rovi, and support some kind of real TVGOS viewer numbers (ratings)?

This is exactly the reason I suggest someone in the Santa Clara area go to them and speak to someone on a personal level so we can actually know what gives and not have to guess. They may tell us to take a hike but unless someone takes the time everything is speculation. If on the otherhand they are willing to give us some means of supporting the system we can try to work out a plan. If I wasn't 1000 miles away I would go but there must be someone near that can take an hour to find out our options. it must be done soon or everything will be torn down.
post #14977 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

ccrider2, according your file, there is no TVGOS stream.

Thanks..They cut us off for sure then. :.....: sure didn't waste any time. mad.gif
post #14978 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Thanks..They cut us off for sure then. :.....: sure didn't waste any time. mad.gif
Does it matter if it is right away or 5 months from now? Still hurts no matter when it is done
post #14979 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

I posted these two messages on the TVGOS thread but maybe someone here lives in the Santa Clara area. How about P Smith? Don't I recall you live in the Bay area? Someone needs to actually make contact soon or this is going away. eek.gif
Has anyone in the Santa Clara area considered just walking up to their front door and talking with them? How about asking what it would take to keep the service on going? There must be a number that would encourage them to continue. If we have that we at least would have a starting point for discussion. Anyone? What do we have to lose at this point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA
I had thought that on-going TVGOS support was thru the revenue generated by the left-side ads. Though, I have to wonder if someone believes that there are too few people viewing these ads on TVGOS anymore. Possibly, this warning message was also intended to get those still using TVGOS to raise their hands, and be counted.
Possibly, we need to "help" Rovi, and support some kind of real TVGOS viewer numbers (ratings)?
This is exactly the reason I suggest someone in the Santa Clara area go to them and speak to someone on a personal level so we can actually know what gives and not have to guess. They may tell us to take a hike but unless someone takes the time everything is speculation. If on the otherhand they are willing to give us some means of supporting the system we can try to work out a plan. If I wasn't 1000 miles away I would go but there must be someone near that can take an hour to find out our options. it must be done soon or everything will be torn down.

So, you want officially delegate me. smile.gif

I've passed that building where is ROVI sign appear many times. So, I know it's 10 min drive, no big deal. More important how I would present myself ? As freelancer who loosing TVGOS (we still have it from KPIX) ?
Or we should make a PDF with well written petition (perhaps some lawyer is between us) ? Then I would deliver it and talk to someone (I feel our chances are close to zero) who is willing to hear our opinion.
I've a feeling, if I'll come as lone "wolf", they wouldn't listen.
post #14980 of 18096
Don't give up. Definitely contact your stations, maybe the death or TVGOS will prompt some fixes as many people see PSIP for the first time. We had rock-solid service in Nashville since I plugged in my Pal on that first Christmas Eve so long ago, so this is the first time I've seen how bad this is.

I contacted three stations who were only pushing out 10 hours here in Nashville as a first wave of inquiry (2 others stations were already rocking with multi-day PSIP).

One station's engineer was glad to know someone was getting value out of the data, and talked about how disappointed he was in consumer hardware that did not make use of the PSIP data. He replied that he had changed it from 10 hours to 36 hours overnight and asked me to confirm it. It looked great. He said their vendor gave them the same words of warning expressed here about older tuners not being able to cope with too much data. He said they'd operate at this new 36 hours for a while, and then if they had no complaints then they'd think about increasing it some more.

The second station's engineer replied that they were working on the system which was having some problems, and asked me to confirm what I saw. I replied right away that it was only 10 hours. I have not heard back from them and will follow up in a few days.

The third station seems to have ignored me altogether, guy is on vacation, my e-mail is in his spam trap, or who knows what. I'll follow up there too soon.

There's a few more stations to contact in a second wave of inquiry, but hey, I'm happy with immediate success on one front of more than 24 hours.

Incrementally better is still better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

If every station provides at least twelve hours of upcoming PSIP guide, you're fortunate.  Many stations in the Chicago market provide none: no titles, no synopses, not even start and end times.  Of those that do, most supply only three to six hours’ worth.Even if the current block block counts, it would still mean that at least nine hours of future listings are required.  Few stations meet that.
post #14981 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

So, you want officially delegate me. smile.gif
I've passed that building where is ROVI sign appear many times. So, I know it's 10 min drive, no big deal. More important how I would present myself ? As freelancer who loosing TVGOS (we still have it from KPIX) ?
Or we should make a PDF with well written petition (perhaps some lawyer is between us) ? Then I would deliver it and talk to someone (I feel our chances are close to zero) who is willing to hear our opinion.
I've a feeling, if I'll come as lone "wolf", they wouldn't listen.
Well two things PSmith. First I agree with you. Chances are near zero. Second point is I will support you in trying. You have much technical knowledge and maybe can talk on their level.


I am willing to support the efforts to keep it on the air. Maybe if they got a sponsor like CBS to put ads. Or own it like for example the Staples center.

We have nothing to lose and all they can say is no. Maybe put a face to what they are doing? Maybe try to speak to the CEO?
Edited by keyboard21 - 11/13/12 at 6:20pm
post #14982 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

So, you want officially delegate me. smile.gif

Why not! If I weren't halfway across the country, I'd be there with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

More important how I would present myself?

You could present yourself as spokesperson for all the TV viewers who have enjoyed TVGOS for years (and are now gonna get screwed). Perhaps refer to fellow denizens of AVS forum who have been following TVGOS for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Or we should make a PDF with well written petition (perhaps some lawyer is between us) ? Then I would deliver it and talk to someone (I feel our chances are close to zero) who is willing to hear our opinion.
I've a feeling, if I'll come as lone "wolf", they wouldn't listen.

No lawyer is needed to write a petition or simple statement. Perhaps we could start a separate thread to discuss what should be included and for possible wording.

I have been doing a LOT of very effective activism for nearly two decades. If we want to get anything from Rovi but a pat on the head we need to absolutely believe that it is possible. Confidence and patience will win the day if it is at all possible.
post #14983 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Why not! If I weren't halfway across the country, I'd be there with you.
You could present yourself as spokesperson for all the TV viewers who have enjoyed TVGOS for years (and are now gonna get screwed). Perhaps refer to fellow denizens of AVS forum who have been following TVGOS for many years.
No lawyer is needed to write a petition or simple statement. Perhaps we could start a separate thread to discuss what should be included and for possible wording.
I have been doing a LOT of very effective activism for nearly two decades. If we want to get anything from Rovi but a pat on the head we need to absolutely believe that it is possible. Confidence and patience will win the day if it is at all possible.
The issue is Rovi is telling stations to tear out equipment as we speak
post #14984 of 18096
PSMITH

The very least your visit might accomplish is to once and for all get to the bottom of why it is being done. Is it technical for example TV stations don't want Rovi to take so much of their bandwidth/streaming resources, Is it financial (Rovi maintenance is costing more than they can afford), Etc.

Once we better know the reason we can perhaps see through a solution that we can recoomend?


I wonder if ROVI or us know how many thousands or millions of people would be impacted? Perhaps that is their bottom line. Not enough viewers are using ROVI to make it worthwhile for them. Or so they think?
post #14985 of 18096
Are they stopping TVGOS all together or just for OTA?
post #14986 of 18096
Over on the DHG thread, someone spoke to Rovi...they are cutting back this product due to support costs.
post #14987 of 18096
I have some thoughts regarding the cessation of TVGOS by Rovi and its impact on our DTVPal DVRs. While I am disappointed that we all will be losing TVGOS data by next April, I feel that we will still have a very functional product even though it will only have PSIP data available for the program guide/program descriptions.

I'm not sure if I'm the typical purchaser of the DTVPal DVR, but I purchased my two units to replace two VHS VCRs. The main reason I purchased them was that I wanted the ability to be able to record OTA in high definition. Well not only did I get that ability with the DVR but I also got the ability to record two programs at once and watch a third recorded program at the same time. The fact that it had ANY program guide was an added bonus. I am fortunate enough to be in an area with TVGOS so I have had the full 7-day program guide since I have owned my two DVRs.

Regarding the economics/financial side of my purchases I really feel that I have gotten my money's worth (and continue to do so today). I purchased my two DVRs at the "pre-release" price of $250 before they went to the full $300 retail price when Sears started selling them in the late summer of 2009. That $250 purchase price was much less than the prices I had paid for the two Super VHS VCRs that the DVRs were replacing. My oldest DVR will be 4 years old next month so that averages out to just $5.21/month thus far and the unit continues to function to meet my needs.

We should be thankful that Dish brought this DVR to our niche OTA market in the first place at such an attractive price point. I don't think any other manufacturer would have done this if Dish hadn't. (Sony did have the DHG-HDD units but they only had a single tuner, required TVGOS to be fully functional and were priced significantly higher in the $800 to $1,000 price range because of their higher build quality.) Till this day I don't really understand Dish's reason for doing it other than to possibly get their OTA equipment in our homes and hope that we would then become Dish subscribers when we craved for more programming than OTA could supply.

The bottom line is that I feel the TVGOS has been a bonus for me for the last four years. Luckily Dish had the foresight to make this unit functional in the absence of TVGOS so that it would not become obsolete in its absence. For me the remaining functionality of my DTVPal DVRs after TVGOS disappears will suit my needs just fine and will still be light years ahead of the VCRs that they replaced. I also have two DVRs that don't report my viewing habits/preferences to any "mother ship" like other subscription products do and I can enjoy 39 OTA channels/sub-channels with absolutely no recurring monthly fees.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.....
post #14988 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Just my 2 cents on the subject.....

Agreed. No matter how you look at these, it sure beats VCRs as far as sound and image quality, and has been far easier to use than any VCR I've ever owned.

Although you hear mostly complaints from certain individuals here, I think we got a great deal for the money, and I'm glad to have had these.

For those who think they were too expensive and they are not getting their money's worth now that TVGOS will no longer be available, they probably were on tight budgets and pinching pennies, and should never have bought one of these in the first place.

.
post #14989 of 18096
Quote:
if I'll come as lone "wolf", they wouldn't listen.
I bet if you go in there with a number from the local media they would listen. wink.gif

Of course you could also bring some friends:

post #14990 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

.....I wonder if ROVI or us know how many thousands or millions of people would be impacted?.....Not enough viewers are using ROVI to make it worthwhile for them. Or so they think?

I can only speak for the number of DTVPal DVRs that were produced based on the receiver ID numbers that I have seen. The lowest receiver ID number that I have seen started with R1880052xxx and the highest number I have seen started with R1880068xxx. That would equate to approximately 17,000 units numbered from 52000 through 69000. This is based only on the receiver IDs that I have seen or been made aware of but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of units of users on this forum fall within that range. If anybody has any outliers, please post them so we can get a better handle on the actual numbers.

The question is how many of those units are still in service and how many are used in an area that even has TVGOS. Also the DTVPal DVR is of absolutely NO INTEREST at all to Rovi because it was never an "official" TVGOS product that used the "genuine" TVGOS software and thus never displayed any of their ads.
post #14991 of 18096
QUOTE

Originally Posted by trp2525

Just my 2 cents on the subject.....


I bought 2 units 3 years ago and have never used the TVGOS or PSIP Guide to set timers. I have always used manual timers. I agree that these units are far superior to my VCRs. I love the high definition and the ability to record 2 programs at the same time on each unit.
post #14992 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I bet if you go in there with a number from the local media they would listen. wink.gif
Of course you could also bring some friends:
I wished we had transporters/teleporters. Imagine us going to Rovi. wink.gif
post #14993 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

I have been doing a LOT of very effective activism for nearly two decades. If we want to get anything from Rovi but a pat on the head we need to absolutely believe that it is possible. Confidence and patience will win the day if it is at all possible.
The infrastructure to deliver the broadcast TVGOS service is being dismantled and without delay. Once it is gone, the game is over -- permanently. Time to spend your resources adapting to the PSIP-based device that you are left with or move on.

Corporations make these types of decisions based entirely on financial considerations. Even money-making propositions are terminated if they are not making "enough" to cover cost of capital or if their elimination and the write-down of their associated assets makes some financial metric look better for the analysts. The decision has been made, the analysts have been informed and implementation is well under way -- it has a snow-balls chance of being reversed. All the dependent users of TVGOS -- happy or otherwise -- did not translate into the type of financial performance Rovi required.
post #14994 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I can only speak for the number of DTVPal DVRs that were produced based on the receiver ID numbers that I have seen. The lowest receiver ID number that I have seen started with R1880052xxx and the highest number I have seen started with R1880068xxx. That would equate to approximately 17,000 units numbered from 52000 through 69000. This is based only on the receiver IDs that I have seen or been made aware of but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of units of users on this forum fall within that range. If anybody has any outliers, please post them so we can get a better handle on the actual numbers.

I have one out of that range, here are the 5 I have:

R1880050851

R1880052788

R1880053321

R1880055862

R1880060985

post #14995 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I have some thoughts regarding the cessation of TVGOS by Rovi and its impact on our DTVPal DVRs. While I am disappointed that we all will be losing TVGOS data by next April, I feel that we will still have a very functional product even though it will only have PSIP data available for the program guide/program descriptions.
I'm not sure if I'm the typical purchaser of the DTVPal DVR, but I purchased my two units to replace two VHS VCRs. The main reason I purchased them was that I wanted the ability to be able to record OTA in high definition. Well not only did I get that ability with the DVR but I also got the ability to record two programs at once and watch a third recorded program at the same time. The fact that it had ANY program guide was an added bonus. I am fortunate enough to be in an area with TVGOS so I have had the full 7-day program guide since I have owned my two DVRs.
Regarding the economics/financial side of my purchases I really feel that I have gotten my money's worth (and continue to do so today). I purchased my two DVRs at the "pre-release" price of $250 before they went to the full $300 retail price when Sears started selling them in the late summer of 2009. That $250 purchase price was much less than the prices I had paid for the two Super VHS VCRs that the DVRs were replacing. My oldest DVR will be 4 years old next month so that averages out to just $5.21/month thus far and the unit continues to function to meet my needs.
We should be thankful that Dish brought this DVR to our niche OTA market in the first place at such an attractive price point. I don't think any other manufacturer would have done this if Dish hadn't. (Sony did have the DHG-HDD units but they only had a single tuner, required TVGOS to be fully functional and were priced significantly higher in the $800 to $1,000 price range because of their higher build quality.) Till this day I don't really understand Dish's reason for doing it other than to possibly get their OTA equipment in our homes and hope that we would then become Dish subscribers when we craved for more programming than OTA could supply.
The bottom line is that I feel the TVGOS has been a bonus for me for the last four years. Luckily Dish had the foresight to make this unit functional in the absence of TVGOS so that it would not become obsolete in its absence. For me the remaining functionality of my DTVPal DVRs after TVGOS disappears will suit my needs just fine and will still be light years ahead of the VCRs that they replaced. I also have two DVRs that don't report my viewing habits/preferences to any "mother ship" like other subscription products do and I can enjoy 39 OTA channels/sub-channels with absolutely no recurring monthly fees.
Just my 2 cents on the subject.....
PSIP is terrible. A few hours of Guide to a couple days. When you push guide most channels show No information unless you go to the channel and the DTVpal Downloads information bar comes on many times a day. Annoying to say the least. PSIP is not Superior to TVOS at all.It is a real downgrade. Plus the Clock issues in PSIP

Why couldn't the TVGOS service be sold to PBS who would run it and is supported by tax dollars? Big Bird might like TVGOS lol

Also why couldn't TVGOS have a sponsor. For example the Staples center.

I am sure people do not mind ads even DTVpal owners.

This looks like a done deal. Yet if media gets involved and shows angry people with signs outside the office of Rovi. Imagine if if there were 50 people yelling "Hell no do not let tvguide go"
Edited by keyboard21 - 11/14/12 at 7:46am
post #14996 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

I have one out of that range, here are the 5 I have:
R1880050851
R1880052788
R1880053321
R1880055862
R1880060985

OK so based on your receiver ID number of R1880050851 we can revise the total number of DTVPal DVRs produced up to 19,000 units (from 50000 through 69000).
post #14997 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yet if media gets involved and shows angry people with signs outside the office of Rovi. Imagine if if there were 50 people yelling "Hell no do not let tvguide go"
Considering there are people who still don't have power weeks after Sandy much less TV entertainment, I think that a media protest like that would make us look like self-indulgent idiots.
post #14998 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Considering there are people who still don't have power weeks after Sandy much less TV entertainment, I think that a media protest like that would make us look like self-indulgent idiots.
Rovi is on the west coast in CA. If in NY or NJ I would agree with you. 3000 miles away should not be an issue and people who lost electric used generators to power a small tv with antennas to get the news. So they were using TVGOS if they had a Sony Bravia
post #14999 of 18096
I have no preconceived idea how anything will work with Rovi. I only would like to hear from them what they need and then we can see what is possible. I have seen two weeks worth of complaining here and think that will get us nowhere. If there is a chance to save TVGOS it has to be done quickly, thus my suggestion of someone visiting their headquarters. It is a long shot but if we do nothing we will get nothing. Pretty simple. Thanks for your efforts.
Tom wink.gif
post #15000 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

I have no preconceived idea how anything will work with Rovi. I only would like to hear from them what they need and then we can see what is possible. I have seen two weeks worth of complaining here and think that will get us nowhere. If there is a chance to save TVGOS it has to be done quickly, thus my suggestion of someone visiting their headquarters. It is a long shot but if we do nothing we will get nothing. Pretty simple. Thanks for your efforts.
Tom wink.gif
I support you 100% and hope we can get someone like Psmith to go. Personally I tired calling and sent an email that they never answered. So I have tried to do something. If I lived close I would go.

Maybe we can call SHAME on YOU tv show?
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