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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 507

post #15181 of 16895
11/29/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

According to TMZ.com PSmith was last seem entering the ROVI Building and hasn't been seen or heard from since!

LOL:eek:
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post #15182 of 16895
11/29/12 at 8:32pm
Thanks for the great insight, trp2525. Based on your observations and results, I also went through the installation process again and had a (mostly) successful outcome.

I watched as the channels were added during the scan, and my PSIP Idents are listed exactly as they were added, in reverse RF channel order. But this time I have only 16 elements, so I was also given the "Time" and "Local" information at the bottom as Pete-N2 mentioned. My worst outliers are now +183*, -73 (2), and -74. Additionally, I have a strange entry of Ident: 0. Not completely sure what station that is, but I would guess it has to be WTLJ Muskegon, since it's RF falls between the two above and below it. I don't have the corresponding channel in my list of received stations, however, while I receive every other channel shown in the PSIP data.

Like you, my clock still shows as being acquired from TVGuide. The odd part is that, initially the clock was correct and right on--my 1-1.5 minute jump ahead was immediately fixed--but within 5 minutes it shifted an hour ahead, as if DST were in effect. Gonna have to watch that and see what further develops.

The best surprise? My episode guide now has program information for those two channels (and their subchannels) I previously said never displayed such information, TVGOS or no.

*Not surprising given this station comes out of Traverse City, quite a distance away--though maybe that doesn't have any effect--and a clock check I did a few days ago directly through my TV revealed all the other stations agree while this one is about 3 minutes fast.
Edited by ABHiDef - 11/29/12 at 8:50pm
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post #15183 of 16895
11/29/12 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABHiDef View Post

.....I watched as the channels were added during the scan, and my PSIP Idents are listed exactly as they were added, in reverse RF channel order.....

I just noticed that my 19 PSIP time entries were, in fact, in my list in reverse RF channel order just like yours. I didn't notice that earlier today after I did my new setup scan.
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post #15184 of 16895
11/30/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I haven't seen it delete my newest/latest recordings yet. It is more of the older ones (not the oldest), but then I don't care for those. I do use protect for the old ones I do care for, but those are very rare. I just wanted this DVR to delete the oldest ones and not the newer ones. Basically, delete based on age when need more free disk spaces. It seems like this DVR randomly deletes unprotected recordings that it wants to nuke?

The FIFO algorithm has never worked properly at least not in the F206, F207, F208 firmware that I have used. My results have been similar to yours, it chooses to delete unprotected recordings that are neither the oldest nor the newest. One thing that it seems to prefer is to delete a recording that has been at least partially viewed in preference to a recording that has never been viewed at all. That might explain some of the seemingly random choices it makes.
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post #15185 of 16895
11/30/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABHiDef View Post

Thanks for the great insight, trp2525. Based on your observations and results, I also went through the installation process again and had a (mostly) successful outcome.
I watched as the channels were added during the scan, and my PSIP Idents are listed exactly as they were added, in reverse RF channel order. But this time I have only 16 elements, so I was also given the "Time" and "Local" information at the bottom as Pete-N2 mentioned. My worst outliers are now +183*, -73 (2), and -74. Additionally, I have a strange entry of Ident: 0. Not completely sure what station that is, but I would guess it has to be WTLJ Muskegon, since it's RF falls between the two above and below it. I don't have the corresponding channel in my list of received stations, however, while I receive every other channel shown in the PSIP data.
Like you, my clock still shows as being acquired from TVGuide. The odd part is that, initially the clock was correct and right on--my 1-1.5 minute jump ahead was immediately fixed--but within 5 minutes it shifted an hour ahead, as if DST were in effect. Gonna have to watch that and see what further develops.
The best surprise? My episode guide now has program information for those two channels (and their subchannels) I previously said never displayed such information, TVGOS or no.
*Not surprising given this station comes out of Traverse City, quite a distance away--though maybe that doesn't have any effect--and a clock check I did a few days ago directly through my TV revealed all the other stations agree while this one is about 3 minutes fast.

I probably should have posted this years ago, but I have often went back through the install wizard (rather than resetting factory defaults) whenever my DTVPAL DVR was acting a bit "flaky". That often seems to "fix" whatever issue I am experiencing (usually loss of TVGOS information), with much less disruption than doing a factory default reset.
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post #15186 of 16895
11/30/12 at 3:49pm
Just a heads up: my clock is no longer an hour ahead. Still on time.
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post #15187 of 16895
11/30/12 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcbaker60 View Post

I probably should have posted this years ago, but I have often went back through the install wizard (rather than resetting factory defaults) whenever my DTVPAL DVR was acting a bit "flaky". That often seems to "fix" whatever issue I am experiencing (usually loss of TVGOS information), with much less disruption than doing a factory default reset.

Don't you still lose all your timers when you run the installation wizard (to me that is the most disruptive thing about a factory defaults)? I ran the wizard once instead of a factory defaults, thinking I would keep all my timers, but they were all wiped out anyway. I think running the installation wizard is overkill to erase the PSIP clock data. I'm pretty sure it is the channel scan that clears that data out.

Mark
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post #15188 of 16895
11/30/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I'm pretty sure it is the channel scan that clears that data out.Mark
If you mean scanning for new channels, that doesn't do it.
If you mean a complete channel scan, how would you do that without going through the wizard?
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post #15189 of 16895
11/30/12 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

If you mean scanning for new channels, that doesn't do it.
If you mean a complete channel scan, how would you do that without going through the wizard?

My bad. I was thinking you could do everything independently from the installation menu that the setup wizard does. I think everything is there except a channel scan.

Mark
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post #15190 of 16895
11/30/12 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABHiDef View Post

Just a heads up: my clock is no longer an hour ahead. Still on time.
Apparently I need to stop calling it: it's an hour ahead yet again. I watched several hours of recorded shows tonight, and when I was done the clock was shifted ahead. Perhaps like last time it'll just be for two nights and then it won't happen. (Oddly disconcerting that it's happening once more on a Thursday and a Friday.) Who knows what's going on. Just gonna have to watch it.
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post #15191 of 16895
12/1/12 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Yes . . . the squeaky wheel and all . . . I added a comment several days ago and have been following the others. I was wondering why folks whose devices are now totally unusable aren't getting Sony to go to bat for them? Did anybody ever go knock on Rovi's door in person?

I wrote to ROVI customer support, and I received an actual reply but I don't understand it. Admittedly, I remain a bit confused about the difference between PSIP and TVGOS, but I thought that PSIP only went out 10-24 hours or so, and TVGOS goes out a week. But the ROVI guy seems to be saying that TVGOS only supplies additional program information to the existing PSIP guide. Anyhow, here is the email I got. Can someone decipher this?

Dear Katie,

The Echostar Guide in the Channel Master CM-7000 Pal and DTV Pal DVR actually create a lineup from the channel scan and use PSIP data for program information.

Our understanding is the Echostar Guide only uses TVGOS data when available for more detailed program information.

There will be no pay option. Once the broadcast TVGOS data is gone, it will not be coming back.

Regards,

CE Technical Support

================
My email To ROVI:

I understand that ROVI is discontinuing TV Guide On Screen for users of over-the-air DVR's, such as the Channel Master CM-7000 Pal and DTV Pal DVR. I was wondering if you are considering a pay option for the guide, similar to the one offered for the Channel Master CM-7400. Alternatively, would you consider adding advertising to the guide? These DVR will be nearly unusable without the on-screen guide. Thanks.
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post #15192 of 16895
12/1/12 at 6:30am
If the DVR is receiving TVGOS information, then for channels for which TVGOS data is available, that data is displayed in the grid; for channels for which there is NO TVGOS data is available, the PSIP data is displayed in the grid. If the DVR is NOT receiving TVGOS information, then all the data displayed in the grid is PSIP data (which, in itself, may not be available for some stations). PSIP data seldom goes beyond 12-24 hours, and is often less. TVGOS data always goes out for a week. This is all compounded by Issue 6 in the first post of this forum. Here in Philadelphia, we have a mix of stations that have full TVGOS data, stations that have TVGOS data that the DTVPal DVR refuses to receive due to Issue 6, and stations for which there is no TVGOS data. So some of the guide data goes out less than a day (PSIP), which some channels go out the full week. Once TVGOS is cut off for good, PSIP will provide all the data. It would be wise to encourage your individual stations to provide at least several days and perhaps a week of PSIP guide data (which is rare now.)
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post #15193 of 16895
12/1/12 at 6:46am
Just looked at the diagnostics screen on DTVPal#1 for the first time in a while. It says "Time since last boot" and Days 0, Hours 4, minutes 40... but I leave the Pal on 24 hours a day. What "boots" at 4 AM? Noticed the same thing yesterday. Seems to "boot" something at 4 AM even if it's powered On.

Also just looked at DTVPal#2 which was On all night, and it did a "boot" at 2AM. Days 0, Hours 6, minutes 40.

What is booting? The Guide?
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post #15194 of 16895
12/1/12 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Just looked at the diagnostics screen on DTVPal#1 for the first time in a while. It says "Time since last boot" and Days 0, Hours 4, minutes 40... but I leave the Pal on 24 hours a day. What "boots" at 4 AM? Noticed the same thing yesterday. Seems to "boot" something at 4 AM even if it's powered On.
Also just looked at DTVPal#2 which was On all night, and it did a "boot" at 2AM. Days 0, Hours 6, minutes 40.
What is booting? The Guide?

Sounds like you have Updates turned on (press menu, 3, 7). If it is enabled, then the DTVPal will reboot every night to check for firmware updates. Most people have updates disabled.

Mark
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post #15195 of 16895
12/1/12 at 8:15am
I thought I'd answer the questions that you sent Rovi, that weren't part of their canned response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

[...]
My email To ROVI:
[...]
I was wondering if you are considering a pay option for the guide, similar to the one offered for the Channel Master CM-7400.

Even if Rovi would offer a pay option, the DTVPal software would have to be modified to utilize this new service, neither of which will happen.

Quote:
Alternatively, would you consider adding advertising to the guide?

This is a common misconception with DTVPal owners. Advertising is already a part of TVGOS. Almost all TVGOS devices receive ads. It was Echostar that decided not to support advertising in the DTVPal.

Mark
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post #15196 of 16895
12/1/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Sounds like you have Updates turned on (press menu, 3, 7). If it is enabled, then the DTVPal will reboot every night to check for firmware updates. Most people have updates disabled.
Mark
Thanks. I am 100% sure I disabled those when I set them up, but they were both enabled, both 1:00 AM. Still, one booted at 2 AM, the other at 4 AM. They are both Disabled now. We shall see!
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post #15197 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Just looked at the diagnostics screen on DTVPal#1 for the first time in a while. It says "Time since last boot" and Days 0, Hours 4, minutes 40... but I leave the Pal on 24 hours a day. What "boots" at 4 AM? Noticed the same thing yesterday. Seems to "boot" something at 4 AM even if it's powered On.

Also just looked at DTVPal#2 which was On all night, and it did a "boot" at 2AM. Days 0, Hours 6, minutes 40.

What is booting? The Guide?
Weird, I have this too.
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post #15198 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Just looked at the diagnostics screen on DTVPal#1 for the first time in a while. It says "Time since last boot" and Days 0, Hours 4, minutes 40... but I leave the Pal on 24 hours a day. What "boots" at 4 AM? Noticed the same thing yesterday. Seems to "boot" something at 4 AM even if it's powered On.
Also just looked at DTVPal#2 which was On all night, and it did a "boot" at 2AM. Days 0, Hours 6, minutes 40.
What is booting? The Guide?

Sounds like you have Updates turned on (press menu, 3, 7). If it is enabled, then the DTVPal will reboot every night to check for firmware updates. Most people have updates disabled.

Mark
Ah, I always thought this was for updating my TV guides. I will leave it on. It is good to reboot the DVR once in a while (and automatically) to ensure DVR works nicely.

Has anyone have problems with their DVRs when having very long uptimes and not rebooting often?
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post #15199 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

PSIP data seldom goes beyond 12-24 hours, and is often less.

To see how good/bad PSIP is here in Charlotte, I reset to defaults, left zip at 00000 and disabled TVGOS on Thursday. So, my CM-7000PAL was then using PSIP.

PSIP program guide on my DVR as of 9:00 AM Friday:

WCCB (FOX) thru 5:00 PM Friday
WBTV (CBS), WJZY and WMYT thru 7:00 PM Friday
WCNC (NBC) thru 7:00 AM Saturday
UNC-TV (PBS) thru 7:00 PM Saturday
WSOC (ABC), WHKY, WTVI (PBS), and WAXN thru 7:00 AM Monday

Those 4 stations on the bottom line (totaling 10 sub-channels) each had a full 3 days PSIP. It would be great if all the other stations would upgrade to that level. But, an engineer affiliated with one of the stations with very short PSIP responded that there are no plans to extend PSIP at his station.
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post #15200 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Ah, I always thought this was for updating my TV guides. I will leave it on. It is good to reboot the DVR once in a while (and automatically) to ensure DVR works nicely.
Has anyone have problems with their DVRs when having very long uptimes and not rebooting often?
The Updates option is Only for updating the firmware, which is no longer supported.
No, disabling Updates does not cause any problems. I've had mine since December 2008 and have always disabled Updates.
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post #15201 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:28am
Since there are no firmware updates for it to run I will leave disabled.

I may have been thinking having the "Inactivity Standby" disabled so the unit would stay on also would disable it looking for firmware updates, that it would only do that when in Standby mode. My error.
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post #15202 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:36am
Quote:
Those 4 stations on the bottom line (totaling 10 sub-channels) each had a full 3 days PSIP. It would be great if all the other stations would upgrade to that level. But, an engineer affiliated with one of the stations with very short PSIP responded that there are no plans to extend PSIP at his station.
IIRC, there was a brief discussion that some converter boxes can't handle extended PSIPs due to low memory limitations?
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post #15203 of 16895
12/1/12 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Ah, I always thought this was for updating my TV guides. I will leave it on. It is good to reboot the DVR once in a while (and automatically) to ensure DVR works nicely.
Has anyone have problems with their DVRs when having very long uptimes and not rebooting often?
The Updates option is Only for updating the firmware, which is no longer supported.
No, disabling Updates does not cause any problems. I've had mine since December 2008 and have always disabled Updates.
Wow, you had your DVR running nonstop for almost four years without no power cyclings, reboots, etc.? Amazing.
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post #15204 of 16895
12/1/12 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Don't you still lose all your timers when you run the installation wizard (to me that is the most disruptive thing about a factory defaults)? I ran the wizard once instead of a factory defaults, thinking I would keep all my timers, but they were all wiped out anyway. I think running the installation wizard is overkill to erase the PSIP clock data. I'm pretty sure it is the channel scan that clears that data out.
Mark

Ran the wizzard...lost all my timers.

Good news; the wacko stations with bad clock data are gone from the diagnostics screen.
I'll have to wait till tonight to see if a recording still starts too late. I tried changing the clock, but as others seemed to imply...this won't work. The time always reverts back to the DVR's 'generated' time before it's time for the same program to record again.
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post #15205 of 16895
12/2/12 at 4:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I thought I'd answer the questions that you sent Rovi, that weren't part of their canned response.
Even if Rovi would offer a pay option, the DTVPal software would have to be modified to utilize this new service, neither of which will happen.
This is a common misconception with DTVPal owners. Advertising is already a part of TVGOS. Almost all TVGOS devices receive ads. It was Echostar that decided not to support advertising in the DTVPal.
Mark

Thanks for the reality check. I guess whenever TVGOS goes away in Atlanta, I'll contact the various stations and see if they will extend their PSIP times. I'm really going to miss the ol' TVGOS. I love to look a week ahead at the late-night shows and to see if my programs are on at the right time.
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post #15206 of 16895
12/2/12 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

That gives me an idea: since many of the stations with poor PSIP times are low-power stations,...

Except that one of the worst offenders in the Dallas area is KERA. While I will admit that their time errors are not as bad as they were in 2010, (I measured a 4% drift rate then) it still drifts.

Looking through the list of stations shows ten stations with offsets of -18 to -21 seconds. The outliers are:

KXAS 5 (NBC) +54
KAZD 55 -33
KDFI 27 +107
KBOP 20 -42
KERA 13 (PBS) +160
KXTX 39 -3
KDFW 4 (FOX) -7
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post #15207 of 16895
12/2/12 at 7:43am
I recently replaced the original hard drive with a 1T unit . I thought the fan was defective because it did not start up when I powered up the Pal. Turns out it has a temperature sensor in the fan that keeps it off until it gets warm enough. I replaced the fan, but unfortunately did not pay attention to which way it was blowing, e.g., should it blow cool air into the box, or should it blow hot air out of the box? With the length of the connection wires it can be inserted either way. Does someone know, or can someone who has never messed with the fan check their Pal and let me know?

Thanks!
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post #15208 of 16895
12/2/12 at 8:11am
Both mine blow IN, on the HDD and out over the power supply.
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post #15209 of 16895
12/2/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schultdw View Post

Except that one of the worst offenders in the Dallas area is KERA. While I will admit that their time errors are not as bad as they were in 2010, (I measured a 4% drift rate then) it still drifts.
Looking through the list of stations shows ten stations with offsets of -18 to -21 seconds. The outliers are:
KXAS 5 (NBC) +54
KAZD 55 -33
KDFI 27 +107
KBOP 20 -42
KERA 13 (PBS) +160
KXTX 39 -3
KDFW 4 (FOX) -7

Is there a chart that shows what station equals the ID number?

Also.. not too surprised KERA is so far off time. During the summer they never reset their RDS clock on KKXT 91.7 to DST. Every time I tried setting the car radio clock to the RDS clock KKXT was 1 hour off.
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post #15210 of 16895
12/2/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyPalSteve View Post

I recently replaced the original hard drive with a 1T unit . I thought the fan was defective because it did not start up when I powered up the Pal. Turns out it has a temperature sensor in the fan that keeps it off until it gets warm enough. I replaced the fan, but unfortunately did not pay attention to which way it was blowing, e.g., should it blow cool air into the box, or should it blow hot air out of the box? With the length of the connection wires it can be inserted either way. Does someone know, or can someone who has never messed with the fan check their Pal and let me know?
Thanks!
Looking at it from the front, air comes in on the left and goes out on the right.
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