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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 515

post #15421 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

The main problem for me is that I won't be able to use the Event Timer settings (in contrast to the Manual Timer settings) unless the show [or one with the same time slot on the same day of a closer week] is close enough to be in the PSIP guide info already, or the show starts on the hour and runs for exactly one hour.  Event Timers allow such things as overlapping timers on the same channel, and picking up the name of the program even if the recording starts a minute or two in advance.

I don't think it'll be too bad. If the show is less than an hour, just record the whole hour; if it laps over a 1-hour boundary, just set two or more consecutive event timers on the same channel. Yes, a long program will be broken up into multiple 1-hr recordings, and the (last) recording will have some unwanted padding, but those don't seem like big deals.

The only problems I see are:

1) If you want to record a show that doesn't start on a 1-hour boundary, the (first) recording will have the wrong name.

2) If you want to record a half-hour show on one channel, then another half-hour show on another channel, all while recording yet another show on yet another channel, you'll have to use manual timers for the half-hour shows. But I doubt that situation would happen very often.
post #15422 of 18096
I must be missing something, because these so-called "event" timers sound like an inferior option to just using manual timers in the first place. Having 30+ minutes of padding and breaking single episodes into multiple files to appease some arbitrary requirement of using one-hour blocks sounds silly when you could just set manual timers for 30 or 90 minutes, add some padding to compensate for network delays, set the timers to repeat on a weekly basis, and then forget about them.
post #15423 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I must be missing something, because these so-called "event" timers sound like an inferior option to just using manual timers in the first place. Having 30+ minutes of padding and breaking single episodes into multiple files to appease some arbitrary requirement of using one-hour blocks sounds silly when you could just set manual timers for 30 or 90 minutes, add some padding to compensate for network delays, set the timers to repeat on a weekly basis, and then forget about them.

You don't have to use event timers, of course; but they are convenient, particularly if you typically pad your recordings:

1) Just click & set your options. No spinning dates & times as when setting manual timers.

2) Consecutive events on the same channel require only one tuner even if you pad your recordings. Overlapped manual timers require both tuners for the few minutes of overlap. (Of course, this only matters if the other tuner is already in use. Besides, an easy way around it is just to remove the "end" padding from the first event and the "start" padding from the second. Or just make one manual timer that covers both events, rather than separate timers for each event.)

3) If you pad the beginning of a recording, a manual timer will pick up the name of the wrong show, but an event timer will pick up the correct name.

Another option to keep in mind is to create an event timer using the guide, then edit it, which converts it into a manual timer. That way you get advantage #1 without having to pad and/or break apart a show. But you'll still have problems 2 and 3.

Finally, many TV shows start on the hour and last one hour anyhow, so the 1-hour "dummy" events in the guide work fine for them.

To each his own. Use whatever suits you and the situation; your Pal won't care!
post #15424 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

It is a little more difficult to program using PSIP because you have to program a day at a time.
If you're lucky enough to have twenty-four hours of PSIP, yes; if the station gives less, you have to program even more often if you rely on the DVR for a schedule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I must be missing something, because these so-called "event" timers sound like an inferior option to just using manual timers in the first place.
When the advantages that I mentioned before don't apply, they are inferior.  My own scheduling has some of each.
post #15425 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Too much brainpower out there being wasted on what could have been.
TVGOS is gone.
Folks either have to live with it along with the rest of the bugs of this box or put their brainpower towards something else.
For me, the ZBOXHD combined with an HDHomerun Dual and Windows 7 Media Center is working out better than expected.
I'll post some details soon. My wife is beta testing my config today - so far she likes it...a lot and it takes up less space than the DTVPal DVR.
I'm planning for the future also. I just ordered an HDHomerun Dual and will put together a cheap computer to put it in when I get dissatisfied with my DTVPal (which has only one working receiver).
post #15426 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

I'm planning for the future also. I just ordered an HDHomerun Dual and will put together a cheap computer to put it in when I get dissatisfied with my DTVPal (which has only one working receiver).

Let's face it that even if TVGOS was continuing our DTVPal DVR hardware would not continue forever. My oldest unit is now 4 years old and my other unit is 3 1/2 years old so I wouldn't be shocked if something broke on one of them. After all, at the $250-$300 price point that these were built at they were not designed with the most-expensive/longest-lasting components or manufacturing processes. Granted if you have a hard drive failure that is a relatively easy fix but if your power supply, a tuner or something else fails, you probably won't be able to easily fix it (if at all).

And for those that have discussed the possibility/feasibility of paying Dish/EchoStar a fee ($100 as mentioned or even some lesser fee) to update the firmware one last time, I don't feel that would be an economically-feasible option for me. Do you want to invest more money into the DTVPal DVR when you have no way of knowing how much longer it will last? IMHO that money would be better spent on a current DVR solution that has a robust program guide, a warranty and some support behind it like the TiVo with lifetime subscription.
post #15427 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

If you're lucky enough to have twenty-four hours of PSIP, yes; if the station gives less, you have to program even more often if you rely on the DVR for a schedule.
What I was trying to say is that once you spend the time to get all your events programmed everything is OK until the stations deviate from the schedule, which is too frequent to make me happy. I have one station with about 3 days of PSIP but some don't provide much more than the program name and some don't update their info until there is only a few hours of data but I will suffer through.

I have a Hauppauge card that works great in my PC but have not build a HTPC yet. Intend to see what kind of deal I can get on a TiVo with lifetime subscription at BestBuy or eBay,
post #15428 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

I'm 68 years old, and while I really liked TVGOS, I did not rely on it. I'll be getting by just fine with only PSIP. rolleyes.gif
Do you not find the DVR is downloading guide info many times during the day? Does not happen with TVGOS. It is much less annoying then seeing that download bar all the time.
post #15429 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

I'm planning for the future also. I just ordered an HDHomerun Dual and will put together a cheap computer to put it in when I get dissatisfied with my DTVPal (which has only one working receiver).

Highly recommended. I've halted all recordings on the Pal. I already had a USB tuner so I have 3 tuners in my setup. The guide is wonderful. Name based recording is also a great feature.
post #15430 of 18096
Name based recording just paid off. Monday's episode of How I Met Your Mother was an hour long and I had no idea. The new setup recorded the full hour. The Pal would have just recorded the first half-hour.
post #15431 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Do you not find the DVR is downloading guide info many times during the day? Does not happen with TVGOS. It is much less annoying then seeing that download bar all the time.

I've seen you mention an annoying "download bar" before. Would you elaborate on what you are talking about? I have had TVGOS disabled and have been been getting PSIP only for the last month and see no difference in functionality between it and TVGOS (other than the limited guide data). I've never seen a "download bar" of any kind.

Mark
post #15432 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

To each his own. Use whatever suits you and the situation; your Pal won't care!

That's certainly true, since I don't own one. wink.gif
post #15433 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Too much brainpower out there being wasted on what could have been.
TVGOS is gone.
Folks either have to live with it along with the rest of the bugs of this box or put their brainpower towards something else.
For me, the ZBOXHD combined with an HDHomerun Dual and Windows 7 Media Center is working out better than expected.
I'll post some details soon. My wife is beta testing my config today - so far she likes it...a lot and it takes up less space than the DTVPal DVR.
I'm planning for the future also. I just ordered an HDHomerun Dual and will put together a cheap computer to put it in when I get dissatisfied with my DTVPal (which has only one working receiver).
Let us know how it goes. BTW, you don't put the HDHomeRun "in" your computer; you hang it on your computer's LAN somewhere. (It can be shared by multiple HTPCs.)

Quick note: If you're OTA (which is probably true if you've been using a Pal), the HDHomeRun Dual is a fine choice. If you want to be cable-ready, though, consider the HDHomeRun Prime instead - not because you need a third tuner, but because it accepts a CableCard. With the recent FCC ruling, clear QAM will likely go away in many parts of the country, so the HDHomeRun Dual will be "effectively" OTA-only.
post #15434 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I've seen you mention an annoying "download bar" before. Would you elaborate on what you are talking about? I have had TVGOS disabled and have been been getting PSIP only for the last month and see no difference in functionality between it and TVGOS (other than the limited guide data). I've never seen a "download bar" of any kind.
Mark
That is very interesting. Without Tvgos. Every-time we turn the box on we would get a Downloading info guide with a bar that goes left to right. Takes a good 30 seconds. Not sure if it happens during regular channel surfing. Will let you know when Tvgos goes out. I remember when it was out for a few days last year. Was annoying as heck. The bar thing that is
post #15435 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Let's face it that even if TVGOS was continuing our DTVPal DVR hardware would not continue forever. My oldest unit is now 4 years old and my other unit is 3 1/2 years old so I wouldn't be shocked if something broke on one of them. After all, at the $250-$300 price point that these were built at they were not designed with the most-expensive/longest-lasting components or manufacturing processes. Granted if you have a hard drive failure that is a relatively easy fix but if your power supply, a tuner or something else fails, you probably won't be able to easily fix it (if at all).

Nothing lasts forever, of course, and it's true that these boxes are, for the most part, unrepairable. But I wouldn't assume they're all going to drop dead after 4 years of service just because they didn't cost a mint.

The biggest enemy of electronics is heat. But if you upgrade and/or externalize your HD, you'll reduce power consumption, and heat production along with it.

Power cycling and surges can also shorten a box's life, but an inexpensive UPS will take care of that.

And of course, you can re-use your HD and UPS when you do decide to replace your Pal. You won't be able to keep your recordings, but the HD will work fine in another system. So you're not throwing good money after bad.
post #15436 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I've seen you mention an annoying "download bar" before. Would you elaborate on what you are talking about? I have had TVGOS disabled and have been been getting PSIP only for the last month and see no difference in functionality between it and TVGOS (other than the limited guide data). I've never seen a "download bar" of any kind.
Mark
That is very interesting. Without Tvgos. Every-time we turn the box on we would get a Downloading info guide with a bar that goes left to right. Takes a good 30 seconds. Not sure if it happens during regular channel surfing. Will let you know when Tvgos goes out. I remember when it was out for a few days last year. Was annoying as heck. The bar thing that is
I've seen this behavior if the power is lost. It repopulates the guide the first time you turn the unit on after power is restored, and shows that bar as it goes.

It might also depend on your firmware version. A few Pal owners still have older firmware.

I have the feeling we'll be learning more about when/how the Pal downloads PSIP guide data as TVGoS continues to go away around the country. Keep posting your experiences.
post #15437 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I've seen this behavior if the power is lost. It repopulates the guide the first time you turn the unit on after power is restored, and shows that bar as it goes.
It might also depend on your firmware version. A few Pal owners still have older firmware.
I have the feeling we'll be learning more about when/how the Pal downloads PSIP guide data as TVGoS continues to go away around the country. Keep posting your experiences.
NP. BTW we have fr208. So it is up to date.
This only happens when the pal lost TVgos and went into PSIP mode
Edited by keyboard21 - 12/20/12 at 8:36am
post #15438 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

That is very interesting. Without Tvgos. Every-time we turn the box on we would get a Downloading info guide with a bar that goes left to right. Takes a good 30 seconds. Not sure if it happens during regular channel surfing. Will let you know when Tvgos goes out. I remember when it was out for a few days last year. Was annoying as heck. The bar thing that is

More misinformation!

That download bar every time you turn on the unit is only on the DTVPal CECB, not on the DTVPalDVR.

.
Edited by wiscojim - 12/20/12 at 8:40am
post #15439 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Nothing lasts forever, of course, and it's true that these boxes are, for the most part, unrepairable. But I wouldn't assume they're all going to drop dead after 4 years of service just because they didn't cost a mint.
The biggest enemy of electronics is heat. But if you upgrade and/or externalize your HD, you'll reduce power consumption, and heat production along with it.
Power cycling and surges can also shorten a box's life, but an inexpensive UPS will take care of that.
And of course, you can re-use your HD and UPS when you do decide to replace your Pal. You won't be able to keep your recordings, but the HD will work fine in another system. So you're not throwing good money after bad.
a) In most parts it is reparable. If you have the parts
b) I wouldn't say so - the service is doable: transfer from old HDD all partitions to new bigger HDD.
post #15440 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

More misinformation!
That download bar is only on the DTVPal CECB, not on the DTVPalDVR. And it has nothing to do with TVGOS, as the CECB only deals with PSIP data.
.
I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...
post #15441 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...
Thanks Psmith. The truth always comes out.

It also occurs when you just power on. Almost Every-time when in PSIP only mode.
post #15442 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...

The loading program info bar that appears each time the unit is turned on is on the CECB, not the DVR. keyboard21 said it appeared each time the unit is turned on, not rebooting. That is standard procedure for the CECB.
post #15443 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...

The loading program info bar that appears each time the unit is turned on is on the CECB, not the DVR. keyboard21 said it appeared each time the unit is turned on, not rebooting. That is standard procedure for the CECB.
Yep, I remember this with both DTV Pal models. I hated that TR-50! So buggy and crashy. Not even upgradeable like our DVRs!
post #15444 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Yep, I remember this with both DTV Pal models. I hated that TR-50! So buggy and crashy. Not even upgradeable like our DVRs!
Yes, I am stating that the same thing happens to the DTVPAL DVR when in PSIP mode with NO Tvgos found. It acts the same way as the $60 pal with no dvr. The info bar keeps coming up many times a day. Does not happen with TVGOS present.
post #15445 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes, I am stating that the same thing happens to the DTVPAL DVR when in PSIP mode with NO Tvgos found. It acts the same way as the $60 pal with no dvr. The info bar keeps coming up many times a day. Does not happen with TVGOS present.
My local TVGOS provider stopped broadcasting TVGOS over a week ago.
Plus, just out of curiosity I just disabled TVGOS in my DVR.
No progress bar when powering up my unit either way.
The only times I have ever seen the progress bar was on rebooting, or after a power outage.
Edit:
Keyboard21 - are you sure power is not being shut off to the unit (such as using the power
button on a power strip) when its shut off, instead of using the unit's power button?
post #15446 of 18096
I should clarify: by rebooting I mean turning on power by additional switch what I added to power cord to avoid insert/removing a plug. That is a requirement when I'm working with HDD's content while the drive moving from/to PC to/from DVR.
And TVGOS is transmitting here.
Edited by P Smith - 12/20/12 at 11:00am
post #15447 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Let us know how it goes. BTW, you don't put the HDHomeRun "in" your computer; you hang it on your computer's LAN somewhere. (It can be shared by multiple HTPCs.)
Quick note: If you're OTA (which is probably true if you've been using a Pal), the HDHomeRun Dual is a fine choice. If you want to be cable-ready, though, consider the HDHomeRun Prime instead - not because you need a third tuner, but because it accepts a CableCard. With the recent FCC ruling, clear QAM will likely go away in many parts of the country, so the HDHomeRun Dual will be "effectively" OTA-only.
Are you aware of this thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422535/windows-media-center-vs-tivo-premiere/0_100
Don't let the title fool you. It is a very detailed exposition of setting up a media PC with multiple HD Homeruns running WMC.

Also, the HD Homerun Prime is a cable-card only tuner. No OTA and I believe no clear QAM.
post #15448 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes, I am stating that the same thing happens to the DTVPAL DVR when in PSIP mode with NO Tvgos found. It acts the same way as the $60 pal with no dvr. The info bar keeps coming up many times a day. Does not happen with TVGOS present.

My DTVPal DVR went haywire when TVGOS suddenly disappeared. It would reboot constantly giving the loading program guide on the screen each time. It took a reset to factory defaults to get it to stop.
post #15449 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

a) In most parts it is reparable. If you have the parts
b) I wouldn't say so - the service is doable: transfer from old HDD all partitions to new bigger HDD.

a) A mighty big "if" though. The power supply board could be repaired rather easily if all that's wrong is a bad generic component, such as a capacitor. But a lot of the Pal's parts aren't something you can just pick up at Fry's. Also, most of us aren't prepared to replace surface-mount components even if a replacement part were available.

b) Just to be clear, what I was saying was that those who give up on the Pal could move its HD to another type of system (such as an HTPC) but their new system couldn't play recordings made on the Pal. AFAIK there's no driver available for the file system the Pal uses. The data may be there, but if there's no way to use it....

You can transfer all Pal recordings from one HD to another using a sector copier like Ghost, but you still need a Pal to play them. Also, if you Ghost from a smaller HD to a larger one, my understanding is the Pal won't "see" the extra space.
post #15450 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Are you aware of this thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422535/windows-media-center-vs-tivo-premiere/0_100
Don't let the title fool you. It is a very detailed exposition of setting up a media PC with multiple HD Homeruns running WMC.

Also, the HD Homerun Prime is a cable-card only tuner. No OTA and I believe no clear QAM.

Yes, I've been reading it, along with Assassin's beginner's guide. I'm actually thinking about making an HTPC myself, but I haven't decided on the hardware yet. The one 1hd_addict picked looks too small for any internal expansion cards.

Didn't know the Prime was CableCard-only. Are you aware of any HDHomeRun or other tuners that will tune OTA and also accept a CableCard for encrypted QAM?
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