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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 516

post #15451 of 16895
12/20/12 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Are you aware of this thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422535/windows-media-center-vs-tivo-premiere/0_100
Don't let the title fool you. It is a very detailed exposition of setting up a media PC with multiple HD Homeruns running WMC.

Also, the HD Homerun Prime is a cable-card only tuner. No OTA and I believe no clear QAM.

Yes, I've been reading it, along with Assassin's beginner's guide. I'm actually thinking about making an HTPC myself, but I haven't decided on the hardware yet. The one 1hd_addict picked looks too small for any internal expansion cards.

Didn't know the Prime was CableCard-only. Are you aware of any HDHomeRun or other tuners that will tune OTA and also accept a CableCard for encrypted QAM?
I'd like too, since OTA is not great in my new area.
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post #15452 of 16895
12/20/12 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...

The loading program info bar that appears each time the unit is turned on is on the CECB, not the DVR. keyboard21 said it appeared each time the unit is turned on, not rebooting. That is standard procedure for the CECB.
Yep, I remember this with both DTV Pal models. I hated that TR-50! So buggy and crashy. Not even upgradeable like our DVRs!

Let's get these model numbers straight, folks. The TR-40 was the CECB. (I have one but I'm not using it.) The TR-50 was Echostar's original name for the DVR.

(BTW, back in the day I thought Dish would also market a TR-45, with HD outputs but no DVR, for around $150; but AFAIK they never did.)

Actually I think the TR-40 was upgradeable, but only over-the-air. Some PBS stations broadcast a data stream for OTA upgrades, but AFAIK Dish never had an upgrade for the TR-40 sent out.

Probably just as well. Firmware upgrades are risky enough as it is. Can't imagine downloading one OTA; it'd probably brick a fourth of their boxes!
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post #15453 of 16895
12/20/12 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Let's get these model numbers straight, folks. The TR-40 was the CECB. (I have one but I'm not using it.) The TR-50 was Echostar's original name for the DVR.

Further clarifying:

TR-40 (the CECB) was sold simply under the name "DTVPal". Often here people call the DVR by just the name DTVPal, leading to confusion.

TR-50 (the DVR) was sold under the name "DTVPal DVR".

.
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post #15454 of 16895
12/20/12 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Yes, I've been reading it, along with Assassin's beginner's guide. I'm actually thinking about making an HTPC myself, but I haven't decided on the hardware yet. The one 1hd_addict picked looks too small for any internal expansion cards.

Yes it is very small - but does size really matter? eek.gif
It does have an empty Mini PCIe slot.
I was solely looking for a set top box type device I could set on top of my 3D Blu-ray player and the ZBOXHD fit my needs nicely.
Any expansion I should need I think is achievable via USB.
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post #15455 of 16895
12/20/12 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Also, if you Ghost from a smaller HD to a larger one, my understanding is the Pal won't "see" the extra space.

This would be normal when restoring any HDD image to a larger drive. You would have to run partitioning software to claim the extra space on the new drive, which of course isn't an option on a DVR without reformatting.
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post #15456 of 16895
12/20/12 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes, I am stating that the same thing happens to the DTVPAL DVR when in PSIP mode with NO Tvgos found. It acts the same way as the $60 pal with no dvr. The info bar keeps coming up many times a day. Does not happen with TVGOS present.

My DTVPal DVR went haywire when TVGOS suddenly disappeared. It would reboot constantly giving the loading program guide on the screen each time. It took a reset to factory defaults to get it to stop.

So we've had at least two Pal (DVR wink.gif ) users, keyboard21 and 1hd_addict, who experienced strange behavior when TVGoS went away unexpectedly. Keyboard21's Pal reloaded the guide every time he turned it on, while 1hd_addict experienced frequent reboots (which would include reloading the guide; both myself and others have confirmed that the guide reloads after a reboot) and had to do a factory default reset to stop them.

That would certainly be annoying, and explain keyboard21's anxiety about TVGoS going away for good! But others haven't experienced these problems when losing TVGoS, so we're seeing inconsistent behavior. Keyboard21 has confirmed that his Pal is at firmware version F208, so that's not the issue.

I'll try to do some experiments (deleting my TVGoS host station and rebooting) over the weekend to see if I encounter any odd behavior without TVGoS.
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post #15457 of 16895
12/20/12 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Yes, I've been reading it, along with Assassin's beginner's guide. I'm actually thinking about making an HTPC myself, but I haven't decided on the hardware yet. The one 1hd_addict picked looks too small for any internal expansion cards.

Yes it is very small - but does size really matter? eek.gif
It does have an empty Mini PCIe slot.
I was solely looking for a set top box type device I could set on top of my 3D Blu-ray player and the ZBOXHD fit my needs nicely.
Any expansion I should need I think is achievable via USB.

Small is beautiful, but I'd like a tuner that actually fits within the box. Either an HDHomeRun or a USB tuner would be another box. Do you know if there are any tuner cards that will fit in the mini PCIe slot?
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post #15458 of 16895
12/20/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

a) A mighty big "if" though. The power supply board could be repaired rather easily if all that's wrong is a bad generic component, such as a capacitor. But a lot of the Pal's parts aren't something you can just pick up at Fry's. Also, most of us aren't prepared to replace surface-mount components even if a replacement part were available.
b) Just to be clear, what I was saying was that those who give up on the Pal could move its HD to another type of system (such as an HTPC) but their new system couldn't play recordings made on the Pal. AFAIK there's no driver available for the file system the Pal uses. The data may be there, but if there's no way to use it....
You can transfer all Pal recordings from one HD to another using a sector copier like Ghost, but you still need a Pal to play them. Also, if you Ghost from a smaller HD to a larger one, my understanding is the Pal won't "see" the extra space.
a) I'm doing repairs of TR-50 include BGA chips (EEPROM, CPU); so far a score is 7:3, these three is not fixed due unavailability of STi7109 chips frown.gif
b) It's non-standard service, custom made. Ghost or any other program would end-up with empty (!) content; the DVR will reformat it (only one case when it works - for same model/size of source/target HDDs).
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post #15459 of 16895
12/20/12 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

So we've had at least two Pal (DVR wink.gif ) users, keyboard21 and 1hd_addict, who experienced strange behavior when TVGoS went away unexpectedly.

I have no hard evidence it was the loss of TVGOS. The thing started rebooting all the time and it coincided with the plug being pulled on TVGOS so I came to the conclusion that was the cause. My gut feel is TVGOS vaporized while my DVR was receiving data and it never received the full packet causing it to go wacko.
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post #15460 of 16895
12/20/12 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Small is beautiful, but I'd like a tuner that actually fits within the box. Either an HDHomeRun or a USB tuner would be another box. Do you know if there are any tuner cards that will fit in the mini PCIe slot?
.

No dual ones that I'm aware of. Below is a link to a single tuner card. You can't beat the size of the HDHomerun - it almost doesn't count as another box it is so small.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816321017
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post #15461 of 16895
12/20/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

I have no hard evidence it was the loss of TVGOS. The thing started rebooting all the time and it coincided with the plug being pulled on TVGOS so I came to the conclusion that was the cause. My gut feel is TVGOS vaporized while my DVR was receiving data and it never received the full packet causing it to go wacko.
Have seen (three) TR-50 start doing reboots after 2-3 years; all of them has bad/cold balls under CPU BGA chip what lead to the CPU internal damage.
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post #15462 of 16895
12/20/12 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Didn't know the Prime was CableCard-only. Are you aware of any HDHomeRun or other tuners that will tune OTA and also accept a CableCard for encrypted QAM?
Nothing from Silicon Dust. It's either ATSC/c-QAM or cable card but not both. I don't know about the Ceton cable-card tuner as to whether or not it does more than just cable card.
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post #15463 of 16895
12/20/12 at 3:15pm
 Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

Further clarifying:
TR-40 (the CECB) was sold simply under the name "DTVPal". 

 

It was also sold as the "TR-40 CRA", as the very first version. Many were sold. Solid Signal had it in stock for quite awhile. There's a thread for it here in the CECB forum for proof.

 

Nobody that I know of has actually ever seen a "TR-50" DVR being sold, though, so as far as I know, you're probably right there. That existed only in the original press release and review of the unit.


Edited by Rammitinski - 12/20/12 at 3:34pm
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post #15464 of 16895
12/20/12 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I've seen the bar each time when I'm rebooting TR-50; did that so many times while fixing/testing many of the DVRs. I could make a video, but let me check it - internal ID of the screen should be enough...
Rebooting, yes. Cold start, yes. Going from standby to on, no. My guess is that he has the DVR on a power strip and is actually turning it off but that would cause a boot with the accompanying "downloading guide info, please wait" even if you have TVGOS.
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post #15465 of 16895
12/20/12 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes, I am stating that the same thing happens to the DTVPAL DVR when in PSIP mode with NO Tvgos found. It acts the same way as the $60 pal with no dvr. The info bar keeps coming up many times a day. Does not happen with TVGOS present.

All I can report is what I have experienced. TVGOS is still sent out here, therefore the only way I found to truly disable TVGOS, and use PSIP exclusively is to do a 'Factory Defaults' and then leave the zip code at 00000. After reading yours and 1HD_addict's descriptions, the 'Factory Defaults' apparently covers up for (even more) DTVPal bugs related to losing TVGOS. I am a little skeptical about how bad these bugs really are, since I have seen several reports of people losing TVGOS for extended periods of time (the long Philly outage comes to mind), and don't remember people reporting this kind of bizarre behavior. I have not seen the download bar occur when turning on the DTVPal, but I am now more convinced than ever, that a 'Factory Defaults' is the best way to rid the DTVPal of TVGOS, after the data stops being transmitted in your area.

Mark
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post #15466 of 16895
12/20/12 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

.....I am now more convinced than ever, that a 'Factory Defaults' is the best way to rid the DTVPal of TVGOS, after the data stops being transmitted in your area.
Mark

I totally agree with that plan and that's exactly what I plan on doing when I lose TVGOS for good. Hopefully my local CBS owned-and-operated WBZ channel 4 in Boston keeps the data coming until April but it's anybody's guess at this point.
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post #15467 of 16895
12/20/12 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Hopefully my local CBS owned-and-operated WBZ channel 4 in Boston keeps the data coming until April but it's anybody's guess at this point.
I was hoping the same thing, but when I lost TVGOS a week ago I asked the station engineer
and he said Rovi had demanded their equipment be returned, so that was that.
Edited by Chuck44 - 12/20/12 at 6:46pm
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post #15468 of 16895
12/20/12 at 6:37pm
Let's move the htpc talk to that forum please.
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post #15469 of 16895
12/20/12 at 6:50pm
Just unplugged my DTVPAL DVR.
Adios.
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post #15470 of 16895
12/20/12 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Just unplugged my DTVPAL DVR.
Adios.

RIP
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post #15471 of 16895
12/20/12 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Just unplugged my DTVPAL DVR.
Adios.
Gonna sell it ?

For parts ? wink.gif
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post #15472 of 16895
12/21/12 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Let's move the htpc talk to that forum please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD_addict View Post

Just unplugged my DTVPAL DVR.
Adios.

So per the previous post, I take it you won't be allowed to post in this thread anymore frown.gif

But if perhaps you happen to start a thread in the HTPC forum, at least let us know wink.gif We'll endeavor to keep this thread on-topic, but may visit you there.
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post #15473 of 16895
12/21/12 at 2:09pm
Just listed mine. Going PC. And after all that work to make it purrrrrfect:) O' well I can't leave anything alone so a new toy will be welcomed.
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post #15474 of 16895
12/21/12 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmannm View Post

Just listed mine. Going PC. And after all that work to make it purrrrrfect:)

Work? Did you upgrade it? I've seen a lot of Pal DVRs listed on eBay but never an upgraded one. Given that "stock" Pals sometimes go for >$300, I'd like to know what you get for it.
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post #15475 of 16895
12/21/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmannm View Post

Just listed mine. Going PC. And after all that work to make it purrrrrfect:) O' well I can't leave anything alone so a new toy will be welcomed.

 

You want a "new toy"?

 

Make sure the computer has Windows 8. It had to have been designed by Fisher-Price. biggrin.gif

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post #15476 of 16895
12/21/12 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Make sure the computer has Windows 8. It had to have been designed by Fisher-Price. biggrin.gif
That is Microsoft's estimation of the technical age/abilities of the average PC user.
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post #15477 of 16895
12/21/12 at 6:36pm
For real computer users there's Linux. No kiddie stuff and the user is in the drivers seat. smile.gif
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post #15478 of 16895
12/22/12 at 6:41am
Still have TVGOS here in Raleigh- Durham. NC. Will worry about what to do next when it goes away.

Even at worst - you still have 12 hours or so of PSIP info for most stations, and there are always manual timers (that is essentially haw a timer is done with these anyway).
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post #15479 of 16895
12/22/12 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Still have TVGOS here in Raleigh- Durham. NC. Will worry about what to do next when it goes away.
Even at worst - you still have 12 hours or so of PSIP info for most stations, and there are always manual timers (that is essentially haw a timer is done with these anyway).

We lost our TVGOS here a couple weeks ago. Your hopes that "most" stations will cover 12 hours or so doesn't quite ring true here. Of the 12 stations here, two extend out only about 6 hours and 4 read "No Information" all the time. So for us, only 50% of the stations data reach out anywhere near 12 hours.

A pain, but tolerable. I'm just glad for the 3 years that we got full TVGOS service for free.

.
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post #15480 of 16895
12/22/12 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Still have TVGOS here in Raleigh- Durham. NC. Will worry about what to do next when it goes away.
Even at worst - you still have 12 hours or so of PSIP info for most stations, and there are always manual timers (that is essentially haw a timer is done with these anyway).

We lost our TVGOS here a couple weeks ago. Your hopes that "most" stations will cover 12 hours or so doesn't quite ring true here. Of the 12 stations here, two extend out only about 6 hours and 4 read "No Information" all the time. So for us, only 50% of the stations data reach out anywhere near 12 hours.

A pain, but tolerable. I'm just glad for the 3 years that we got full TVGOS service for free.

.
Ouch. Oh well, we will be doing VCR style then. frown.gif
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