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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 519

post #15541 of 16895
1/2/13 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

BTW, does locking the DVR also lock "dangerous" menu options (like factory defaults reset)?

No, factory defaults ignores the lock. I periodically run a factory defaults whenever something starts acting weird. With the DVR locked (with several channels locked so they don't display in the guide) the Factory Defaults does its thing without having to unlock first.

Hmm.... I played with it over the holiday. As a test I locked the DVR then locked out a few channels broadcasting only color bars. On mine it appeared to lock these menu options:
3-1: Locks (naturally)
3-2-1: Installation menu
3-2-2: Channel setup menu
3-2-4: Factory defaults reset

In other words, once locked, any option that could let you gain access to deleted or locked-out channels required a password, which makes sense.

However, it doesn't lock the diagnostics screen or even the HDD diagnostics screen. (I didn't try the "reformat" option!)
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post #15542 of 16895
1/2/13 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Has anyone ever lost all their recordings when deleting a single recording? This has happened to my wife twice. She likes to watch & delete, but yesterday when she watched a show & deleted it, everything got deleted except for one recording. mad.gif

This also happened a few months ago. At that time I just changed my timers to protect my recordings, figuring she just hadn't been paying attention and had deleted my recordings by mistake. But then it happened again yesterday, wiping out protected (mine + some of hers) & unprotected recordings alike.

I know she didn't get into the diagnostics and reformat the drive because there was still one of her recordings left (which she then watched & deleted).

Anyway, I decided to turn lemons into lemonade. Since the drive was now empty, I swapped out the factory 250GB drive with a WD 750GB drive. Over 106 hours of HD recording time now, provided they don't all get deleted again rolleyes.gif

The Pal that made me mad by losing all my recordings Sunday, did something strange and wonderful Tuesday. I was getting ready to watch the Capital One Bowl that I'd recorded while watching the Heart of Dallas Bowl. I expected to see that recording plus two recordings of Emergency!, but instead I saw the Capital One Bowl and one listing for Emergency! with a "folder" icon I'd never seen before eek.gif Out of curiosity I selected the Emergency! listing and sure enough, the two expected recordings appeared. Selecting "Done" returned me to the first screen, where I watched and deleted the bowl game. The two Emergency! recordings are still in the "folder."

I wasn't aware the Pal DVRs could organize recordings into folders by title. It's a great feature but I've been using it for years and never saw it do this before confused.gif

Edit: Apparently this is one of the "sort" options on My Recordings. Default is to sort by date. You can sort by other things, but if you sort by "title group" it shows a "folder" for multiple recordings with the same title. My wife may have played with this (while trying to find the recordings that disappeared) and turned this feature on accidentally.

It does help unclutter the My Recordings page if you've recorded several episodes of the same show. As mentioned in post 1, however, the episodes within each "folder" aren't necessarily sorted by date.
Edited by JHBrandt - 1/3/13 at 6:45am
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post #15543 of 16895
1/2/13 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Or, depending on the hookup cable, I've seen some RG-59 type cables that have a very tiny gauge center conductor. Maybe the center contacts in the ANT connector on the DVR don't fit snugly to the center conductor of the cable making an intermittent connection when you move it.

I've often had intermittent reception problems caused by bad coax cables. Sometimes the problem is a thin center conductor; another common issue is a center conductor that's too short to make good contact unless tightly screwed in. Often the best solution is just to replace the cable.
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post #15544 of 16895
1/2/13 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I expected to see that recording plus two recordings of Emergency!,
Are you talking about the '70s show about the L.A. County Fire Dept?
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post #15545 of 16895
1/2/13 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I expected to see that recording plus two recordings of Emergency!,
Are you talking about the '70s show about the L.A. County Fire Dept?
Yes; it's on Me-TV and my wife is a huge Randy Mantooth fan.

Recording Emergency! became the single most important task of our Pal DVR once Me-TV added it to the lineup. Luckily my in-laws bought her all six seasons on DVD for Christmas, so losing all our recordings last Sunday wasn't the disaster it might've been otherwise.
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post #15546 of 16895
1/2/13 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Hmm.... I played with it over the holiday. As a test I locked the DVR then locked out a few channels broadcasting only color bars. On mine it appeared to lock these menu options:
3-1: Locks (naturally)
3-2-1: Installation menu
3-2-2: Channel setup menu
3-2-4: Factory defaults reset
In other words, once locked, any option that could let you gain access to deleted or locked-out channels required a password, which makes sense.
However, it doesn't lock the diagnostics screen or even the HDD diagnostics screen. (I didn't try the "reformat" option!)

I stand corrected. I just checked and, you're absolutely right. When locked and you click on factory defaults, it prompts for your password.
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post #15547 of 16895
1/2/13 at 9:14am
Remember the EchoStar cards that came with the PalDVRs? I ran across mine and started thinking . . .

Did we ever figure out what they were for? Could they possibly be used to feed program data into the Pal to replace TVGOS? And why is this warning on the back? What's so special about this card?

Quote:
This card is the property of EchoStar Technologies LLC and must be returned on request.

???
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post #15548 of 16895
1/2/13 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Remember the EchoStar cards that came with the PalDVRs? I ran across mine and started thinking . . .

Did we ever figure out what they were for? Could they possibly be used to feed program data into the Pal to replace TVGOS? And why is this warning on the back? What's so special about this card?

Quote:
This card is the property of EchoStar Technologies LLC and must be returned on request.

???

My DTVPal DVR came with one, but my CM-7000Pal DVR didn't. Still has a slot for one, though. So the cards don't appear to be required for proper operation.

Apparently, they were intended to authorize some kind of Internet-based subscription service, which Dish never got around to offering. Probably would've been in conjunction with a firmware update that never appeared either.

It's unlikely these cards could be used for program data. Theoretically could be used to authorize a subscription-based guide, in the (highly unlikely) case that EchoStar released a firmware update to provide one.
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post #15549 of 16895
1/2/13 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Remember the EchoStar cards that came with the PalDVRs? I ran across mine and started thinking . . .
Did we ever figure out what they were for? Could they possibly be used to feed program data into the Pal to replace TVGOS? And why is this warning on the back? What's so special about this card?
???
I did post my analysis(perhaps at DBStalk) and some debug messages from FW image. It could be used for anything: OTA subbing, OTA EPG, Internet subs, etc. Any stream from any source (include HDD, USB storage) made by NagraStar rules could be used by the DVR.

Also, the current dish (not E*) guide : EPG, EEPG (8 days) is not per sub base; it's unencrypted and many programs decoding it, like TSReader
Edited by P Smith - 1/2/13 at 11:04am
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post #15550 of 16895
1/2/13 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Hmm.... I played with it over the holiday. As a test I locked the DVR then locked out a few channels broadcasting only color bars. On mine it appeared to lock these menu options:
3-1: Locks (naturally)
3-2-1: Installation menu
3-2-2: Channel setup menu
3-2-4: Factory defaults reset
In other words, once locked, any option that could let you gain access to deleted or locked-out channels required a password, which makes sense.
However, it doesn't lock the diagnostics screen or even the HDD diagnostics screen. (I didn't try the "reformat" option!)

I stand corrected. I just checked and, you're absolutely right. When locked and you click on factory defaults, it prompts for your password.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Wouldn't be the first time we've seen inconsistencies in these DVRs' behavior wink.gif

Anyway, I plan on keeping both DVRs locked. Making me enter my password is a nice safeguard against (some) accidents.

Edit: The only drawback against using locks to hide channels is, it's rather a hassle if you actually want to watch one of the hidden channels. You can either:
1. Go into channel locks, enter your password, and change the "hide locked channels" setting to "no;" then go to the channel and enter your password again (and again each time you change channels and change back). And of course, go back into channel locks, enter your password, and change "hide locked channels" back to "yes" when done.
2. Or just unlock the DVR, entering your password once (but you have to enter it again - twice - to lock the DVR again when you're through).

So, probably best to only hide channels you never watch anyhow.
Edited by JHBrandt - 1/3/13 at 6:56am
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post #15551 of 16895
1/3/13 at 9:52am
A while ago I emailed the NBC station in my DMA complaining about the lousy 8 hrs of PSIP. I got this reply. You would think a Hearst station could afford better equipment.mad.gif
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post #15552 of 16895
1/3/13 at 10:09am
Ah, that's Harmonic's cheap devices ... Man ! They does squeeze each penny out of their boxes, can't afford another 1 GB RAM ? Ridiculous !
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post #15553 of 16895
1/3/13 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjoe43 View Post

A while ago I emailed the NBC station in my DMA complaining about the lousy 8 hrs of PSIP. I got this reply. You would think a Hearst station could afford better equipment.mad.gif
They can, but it's a matter of priorities, and for most stations the EPG isn't a priority. Besides, they probably saved $50 on that encoder rolleyes.gif If there are any other Ocala-area residents reading this, they should complain as well.

This is WESH/2, right? WESH has two transmitters: a full-power broadcast from east of Orlando on RF 11, and a low-power transmitter in Ocala on RF 24. I'm reasonably sure the FCC requires the full-power transmitter to send at least 12 hours of guide. Does anyone get WESH on RF 11 who could check? If RF 11 has the full 12 hours, some Ocala residents might be able to get it with a good VHF antenna.
Edited by JHBrandt - 1/3/13 at 3:02pm
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post #15554 of 16895
1/3/13 at 1:53pm
I picked the number [1 GB ] from a sky, just to show how it's frustrating... if you will try to count how many bytes will need for a few channels (main and 4-5-6 sub channels) for one week of data you will see the size is 10x or 100x exaggerated.
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post #15555 of 16895
1/3/13 at 4:50pm
Not sure if you guys have seen Rovi's Facebook response

Rovi - this is Peggy Gartin, and I manage social media for Rovi. I understand your disappointment (and that of others who have posted) at the ending of the TVGOS service. I’m not able to point you to another company that provides a similar over-the-air service, because I’m simply not aware of any. The market reality is that it has just become very difficult to provide such a service due to the changes we've seen in the industry in recent months.

Given that the decision has already been made, and as Po pointed out, the OTA service provider's equipment has already been returned, I think you should expect that the decision won't be reversed. Instead, I recommend you plan to get your guide info by connecting your TV to the Internet. Jill, I'm pleased to tell you that most connected Sony Bravia TV models do have the capability to get listings data over the Internet, though it does require you to have an internet connection, for which there may be associated costs.

I realize that this means you'll have to deal with a sudden change in how you choose which TV shows to watch, and on behalf of Rovi, I really do apologize for this inconvenience. We're in business to connect people and entertainment. If I can help you with recommendations for a service in your area that you can switch to, please let me know.
A question to Peggy Gartin. Can Psmith use this?

Mark Fontana- Peggy, could you pass along the suggestion that Rovi publish specifications of the V7, V8 and V9 TVGOS packet stream, before the knowledge is lost forever, so that developers in the open source community might save some affected equipment from being bricked by adapting alternative EPG sources? Hopefully this could be done without jeopardizing the security of V10+ and would be a definite gesture of goodwill.
The Answer

Rovi- Thanks, Mark. I don't know if what you suggest is a viable option, but I'll certainly pass along your suggestion to the technical team and see what they say.
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post #15556 of 16895
1/3/13 at 5:19pm
I would help by all my resources (personal), but you forgot with whom we must have a deal after the ROVI's specs: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-02/dish-network-the-meanest-company-in-america#p1
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post #15557 of 16895
1/3/13 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I would help by all my resources (personal), but you forgot with whom we must have a deal after the ROVI's specs: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-02/dish-network-the-meanest-company-in-america#p1
I know you would help. You are a nice person. So you are saying that Even if you had the Rovi info. You still need the code from Dish?

So I would assume that the Sony box people are in the same boat.

Oh well.
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post #15558 of 16895
1/3/13 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

They can, but it's a matter of priorities, and for most stations the EPG isn't a priority. Besides, they probably saved $50 on that encoder rolleyes.gif If there are any other Ocala-area residents reading this, they should complain as well.
This is WESH/2, right? WESH has two transmitters: a full-power broadcast from east of Orlando on RF 11, and a low-power transmitter in Ocala on RF 24. I'm reasonably sure the FCC requires the full-power transmitter to send at least 12 hours of guide. Does anyone get WESH on RF 11 who could check? If RF 11 has the full 12 hours, some Ocala residents might be able to get it with a good VHF antenna.
This is the RF 11 I was referring to...8 hrs...no more, no less.
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post #15559 of 16895
1/3/13 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

[...]
So I would assume that the Sony box people are in the same boat.
Oh well.

No, the Sony people are in a different boat. Their boat has struck an iceberg, and is going down by the bow. The DTVPal will live on.

I just bought a TiVo Premier to replace my Sony DHG. I have taken the DTVPal offline for now. I plan to use the TiVo as my primary recorder, and the Sony as a secondary recorder. Once TVGOS is gone, I'm going to remove the Sony, and replace it with the DTVPal.

Mark
Edited by mabuttra - 1/3/13 at 9:07pm
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post #15560 of 16895
1/4/13 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Not sure if you guys have seen Rovi's Facebook response
Rovi - this is Peggy Gartin, and I manage social media for Rovi. I understand your disappointment (and that of others who have posted) at the ending of the TVGOS service. I’m not able to point you to another company that provides a similar over-the-air service, because I’m simply not aware of any. The market reality is that it has just become very difficult to provide such a service due to the changes we've seen in the industry in recent months.
Given that the decision has already been made, and as Po pointed out, the OTA service provider's equipment has already been returned, I think you should expect that the decision won't be reversed. Instead, I recommend you plan to get your guide info by connecting your TV to the Internet. Jill, I'm pleased to tell you that most connected Sony Bravia TV models do have the capability to get listings data over the Internet, though it does require you to have an internet connection, for which there may be associated costs.
I realize that this means you'll have to deal with a sudden change in how you choose which TV shows to watch, and on behalf of Rovi, I really do apologize for this inconvenience. We're in business to connect people and entertainment. If I can help you with recommendations for a service in your area that you can switch to, please let me know.
A question to Peggy Gartin. Can Psmith use this?
Mark Fontana- Peggy, could you pass along the suggestion that Rovi publish specifications of the V7, V8 and V9 TVGOS packet stream, before the knowledge is lost forever, so that developers in the open source community might save some affected equipment from being bricked by adapting alternative EPG sources? Hopefully this could be done without jeopardizing the security of V10+ and would be a definite gesture of goodwill.
The Answer
Rovi- Thanks, Mark. I don't know if what you suggest is a viable option, but I'll certainly pass along your suggestion to the technical team and see what they say.

My take on the response and how it is worded is that the person responding thinks we use the TVGOS info to see what is on the air and what to watch. Not as a source for our device to use to schedule recordings. The tie in between how are device uses TVGOS and how dependent our device is on it is lost in the wording.
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post #15561 of 16895
1/4/13 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjoe43 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

They can, but it's a matter of priorities, and for most stations the EPG isn't a priority. Besides, they probably saved $50 on that encoder rolleyes.gif If there are any other Ocala-area residents reading this, they should complain as well.
This is WESH/2, right? WESH has two transmitters: a full-power broadcast from east of Orlando on RF 11, and a low-power transmitter in Ocala on RF 24. I'm reasonably sure the FCC requires the full-power transmitter to send at least 12 hours of guide. Does anyone get WESH on RF 11 who could check? If RF 11 has the full 12 hours, some Ocala residents might be able to get it with a good VHF antenna.
This is the RF 11 I was referring to...8 hrs...no more, no less.

WESH may be breaking the rules then. I'm guessing their encoder was meant for LP stations (who aren't required to provide guide info) and they bought it anyway just because it was cheap.

Have you thought about complaining to the FCC? They might require them to upgrade that encoder. WESH might be willing to provide 24 hours or more of guide info if their encoder allowed for it.
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post #15562 of 16895
1/4/13 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

...

A question to Peggy Gartin. Can Psmith use this?

Mark Fontana- Peggy, could you pass along the suggestion that Rovi publish specifications of the V7, V8 and V9 TVGOS packet stream, before the knowledge is lost forever, so that developers in the open source community might save some affected equipment from being bricked by adapting alternative EPG sources? Hopefully this could be done without jeopardizing the security of V10+ and would be a definite gesture of goodwill.
The Answer

Rovi- Thanks, Mark. I don't know if what you suggest is a viable option, but I'll certainly pass along your suggestion to the technical team and see what they say.

That's an interesting idea. It doesn't sound very practical, though.

That info would let someone emulate the old TVGOS packet stream, but that's only a small part of the battle. Without a firmware upgrade, the only way to get that packet stream into a DTVPal or Sony DVR is via the RF input.

So you'd need a local TV station willing to broadcast those packets - and we'd have to supply equipment and get a license from someone to broadcast their guide info, which would be next to impossible. Or, everyone could buy their own 8VSB exciter and send the emulated TVGOS stream into their DVR on an unused RF channel, which would be outrageously expensive. Or, we'd need firmware upgrades - which puts us right back where we started frown.gif
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post #15563 of 16895
1/4/13 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post


My take on the response and how it is worded is that the person responding thinks we use the TVGOS info to see what is on the air and what to watch. Not as a source for our device to use to schedule recordings. The tie in between how are device uses TVGOS and how dependent our device is on it is lost in the wording.

Rovi is pushing total connectivity, all entertainment devices hooked up to the internet so they can farm our consumer choices and sell it to cablecos and other media providers.  Their view of the world is that we all have cable, with a cable-provided DVR that we want to program from our phone.   Super integrating everything to the internet lets them sell their spywork, and push high profit items for the cableco, like a place to store their on-demand everything.

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post #15564 of 16895
1/4/13 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

WESH may be breaking the rules then. I'm guessing their encoder was meant for LP stations (who aren't required to provide guide info) and they bought it anyway just because it was cheap.
Have you thought about complaining to the FCC? They might require them to upgrade that encoder. WESH might be willing to provide 24 hours or more of guide info if their encoder allowed for it.
I did send a complaint to the FCC about 3 months ago.....still waiting for a reply....LOL
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post #15565 of 16895
1/5/13 at 2:51am
smile.gifTITAN TV LISTINGS
Since TVGOS is pretty much dead and buried, I like this new (to me) service: titantv.com...6 hr. grids...user can make custom listings..tons of other things you can do. The main thing I like is you can print out the shows you want WITHOUT printing the whole grid listings....saves paper and ink. It does take a little time to get the hang of all the features though, but IMHO it's worth it. You do need to register to make your custom grid, but there's no fee. I have no connection whatsoever to Titan tv.
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post #15566 of 16895
1/5/13 at 7:38am
TVGuide also lets you make a custom grid. Years ago I tweaked it with Adblock Plus and Stylish in Firefox to display just a bare grid. Goes out about two weeks. Click to see program descriptions. Doesn't get more minimalist than this:

tvg.jpg

Yes, that really is all that I see on the webpage!
Edited by golinux - 1/5/13 at 8:25am
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post #15567 of 16895
1/5/13 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

TVGuide also lets you make a custom grid. Years ago I tweaked it with Adblock Plus and Stylish in Firefox to display just a bare grid. Goes out about two weeks. Click to see program descriptions. Doesn't get more minimalist that this:

tvg.jpg

Yes, that really is all that I see on the webpage!
I use those two guides AND http://www.zap2it.com/. Mostly, I use TitanTV. Too bad we can't replace TVGOS with one of them (e.g., replace TV Guide's directly without Rovi). :P
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post #15568 of 16895
1/5/13 at 12:40pm
Titan.TV has a nice customizable grid, but the advantage of zap2it.com is that it links to my TiVo and lets me schedule recordings from their grid.
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post #15569 of 16895
1/6/13 at 6:45pm
I recorded a program and got a 7-minute segment and a 50-minute segment. It should have been one 60-minute program. When I go to the "My Recordings" page and scroll down to either of these recordings the systems re-boots. I get the "Loading. Please wait...." message. Then it downloads the TV Guide info and comes back to life. I can page down past these recordings but when I "up arrow" to them they reboot the system as soon as one is selected. How can I view/delete these two recordings if selecting them causes the system to re-boot? I've tried unplugging the power cord for 30 seconds and get the same results.

Is there a "nuclear" option that wipes out all recorded programs? If my timers went bye-bye I'd be OK with that too. I just don't like having two recordings on my system that cause a re-boot whenever they're selected.

Note that all other recordings can be viewed and deleted. New recordings work fine. The system works as expected except for the two "stuck/bad" recordings.

My system was replaced under warranty about a year or two ago. I can get the software version if that would help.
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post #15570 of 16895
1/6/13 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CO_Bear View Post

Is there a "nuclear" option that wipes out all recorded programs?
Yes - you can go to the options menu under Diognostics, Hard Drive, and choose Format.
Of course that wipes everything off the HDD.
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