The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 527

I agree, I think people are basing this off of their clock still being grayed out, but a grayed out clock is not proof that clock sets are still happening (unless it is graying out after a Factory Default). An exception to this would be the devices in the Chicago area where the listings disappeared for a while, and have now returned (apparently due to a problem with the inserter). I have seen this happen in my area in the past, and although the listings aren't getting updated, the clock sets, and other data are still coming in. So the guys in Chicago, despite not having listings, would most likely have still been getting the clock sets. The diagnostics screens of the Sony (and other TVGOS devices) show the last time the clock was set from TVGOS (which happens several times a day), so you can tell with those devices if clock sets are still happening.

Mark

I had the same audio problem with one of my DVRs some time ago.
I assumed it was hardware & just piggybacked both my audio inputs into the one good audio channel & then forgot about the problem.
I have reconnected my cables to original locations and I now have both channels.
I had done several "Factory Default" setting but never thought that would have fixed my audio problem.

Thanks to this thread it's never too late to learn something.

'Tis True.

Past several days have noticed TVGoS EPG info via WKRC Cincinnati is currently not present on DTVpal DVR past 1/29 4AM EST ...

Attached zip archive contains atscmonitor.log for WKRC run 1/24 11:46~11:48AM EST, and 1/26 13:09~14:10 EST

WKRCATSCMonitorLog126_2013.zip 16k .zip file

 

After Tuesday shutdown, the clock did start drifting, between Tuesday shutdown and early Friday morning, it lost 5 seconds a day compared to the CBS PSIP clock, which is consistently 2 seconds faster than TVGOS time was.  I was beginning to worry, since the engineers probably stopped checking clock time once Rovi data stopped.  But by midmorning Friday, the clock was within a second of CBS PSIP clock, and the diagnostics screen showed it was where I'd expect it to be for weighted PSIP time.  It's possible Tue-Fri was the effect of equipment still there, but it's hard to tell, since the clocks are so close in either case.  The clock becomes accessible when I delete the TVGOS station (CBS) but it still grays out when I add it back.   It really doesn't matter, as the clock varies by no more than a few seconds so far.  As long as that continues I'll just wait until the next recording break.

 

Diagnostics no longer shows the TVGOS clock time,  and it now shows 14 elements instead of 12 it showed on Tuesday.  I'm not sure if that's an indication the TVGOS clock is gone, as it now has space for only 13 of the 14 elements, so it may have just run out of pages.  But the change in time Friday was an indication to me that it's now on weighted PSIP time.  Oddly, the guide fills in better if I leave the zipcode in and TVGuide button enabled.   At least for the next 12 hours, it saves having to go through the channels to get the data to fill in.  But I suspect it will be a bit like the TR40, not able to hold all the info --a couple stations seem to have increased their PSIP time,  but for those with  3 day view, the info  seems to disappear and reappear.   At least it doesn't choke like the TR40, though.  It fills the info in fast, if you land on that channel.  With the TR40, it could take half an hour before it got the data.  All that was helped when the religious channel stopped using PSIP for its sermon notes -- they'd list 20-30 'programs' an hour, hogging all the guide space.  With the TR40, deleting the station had no effect on the guide.  With the Pal, it seems to have no effect on the guide, but the stations are included for clock time.

 

 

No TSReader logs to offer, but am in the same DMA as WS65711 and my Sony XBR6 w/ v9 TVGOS is doing the same thing. Particularly annoying since their clock has drifted way-y-y-y off the correct time (~7 minutes behind, currently). Consequently, even though the Sony's EPG is TVGOS-only, the current program "info" button displays show titles that must be PSIP-supplied, but now commonly displays the wrong title due to the time error.

 

The now PSIP-only EPG on the DTVPal DVR is still superior to having no EPG at all, but only slightly more convenient to program single events than a VCR. Clock drift on the DVR is currently 22 seconds off, but I tend to schedule events within a few hours of air time and (re)set the clock manually while tuned to the station scheduled. In the case of simultaneous events from different stations, none have differed timewise by much from each other, probably attributable to their own need to coordinate with their respective networks.

 

Speaking of time accuracy, while I agree that an NTP based mechanism would be a great feature, I also find it interesting that nearly everyone has forgotten how good and stable a reference that ol' 60Hz AC sine wave feeding power to our devices is (and must always be, due to interconnections with neighboring utilities' grids, which requires everyone to be in phase and sync'd at all times).

Thanks Jeff,

I have a request though. I'd like to see a log that includes data from 12:00pm to 12:35pm local time. Listing data is sent out from 12:06pm to 12:31pm. Since you seem to be getting all the rest of the data, this log would verify that the listing data is not there. I'm also curious to know if the listing data isn't there, what data is sent out then?

Mark

On my V-9 Mits, the diagnostic pages showed that it was receiving Clock Sets (this as recently as a week ago). It also showed that the last Listings download was December 6th. HOWEVER, my DHG's had neither Clock Sets, Listings, or anything else. BUT the V-9 Mits has the antenna connected also.. the DHG's no longer do. They're Cable only . . .

Here's a possible explanation for the time drifting for three days before locking onto the PSIP time. TVGOS devices running the Gemstar software will find TVGOS data, and lock onto it setting the host channel. If TVGOS is lost, the TVGOS device will continue trying to get data from the host channel for three days. After three days, the device gives up, and starts searching for TVGOS data again. In the DTVPal's case, it is possible that after three days it abandons trying to get TVGOS data, and switches over to get time, and data from PSIP.

Mark

 

So you think disabling TVGuide in the preferences screen disables only the data but not the clock? 

 

It's possible that it takes 3 days to change to PSIP clock, but I don't know that everyone else waited 3 days before getting clock access.  And if people gain clock access when they get PSIP time, that doesn't explain why my clock went gray after I tried again this morning.

Me too! The analog out on one of my pals died a few days ago. I figured it might be something in the DVR that died but my pre-amp is also dying. I was going to switch connections to try to identify which had gone bad. Read the posts, just did a "Factory Default" reset and all good!

Much easier than gett'n back there and slinging cables.

Thanks, Chuck44 & Jim in Phoenix

Definitely. Even if you disable TVGOS, the clock will still be set by TVGOS. See this post from Sep. 2011.

I'm not sure very many people have gotten the clock to ungray without a Factory Default. LenL seems to have had good luck with unlocking the clock when he changed his zip code to 00000.

Mark

MABUTTRA,

I can't say if my clock ever grayed out as I never noticed it. I do know it is not grayed out now. So I can't say if changing the ZIP to zeros had anythiing to do with it . I also did do soft resets with the remote. I was prepared to do a factory reset and I have no issue doing one if needed but so far there doesn't seem to be a need and so far my 2 PALDVRS are working very well. I've been recording on both, viewing TV from both and viewing recordings on both. No issues. The guide is working fine except for the lack of extended listings. It seems to be populating better too. I have to keep an eye on that to see if I am imagening it.

I haven't yet done a factory default and my clock is NOT grayed out. Did the 00000 thing, disabled TVGOS as per TalkingRat's suggestion and did a soft reset.

didn't remember about disabling TVGOS in the settings, and didn't do it ... maybe that's why my clock relocked itself before TVGOS came back on WBBM ...

Just an FYI update.

I have 3 of these DTVPal-DVR units in use daily and 2 other units used occasionally, and TVGOS has been gone here for 6+ weeks. My DVR clocks are all still within 8 seconds of the atomic clock I have.

I just checked all the units, and the clock settings are NOT greyed-out on any of them. This is without doing any changes since TVGOS disappeared (no full resets, no monkeying around with ZIP Code, etc.).

Fortunately in my case, I haven't had the need to worry about clock drift so far. Also, the seasonal time changes have gone through without any problems here over the last several time changes. No screwed-up or lost timers, missing programs, etc.

Also an update on the local (Green Bay, Wisconsin) PSIP feeds:

One channel (ABC Network) and it's sub-channels has data for only 12 hours.
Two channels (CBS & NBC Networks) (and their subs) have data for 24 hours.
One channel (My Network) is good for 48 hours.
One channel (Fox Network) is good for 72 hours.
Two channels (CW Network & PBS) (and their subs) are good for a full week.

If all the stations were as diligent as the CW & PBS networks, TVGOS wouldn't be missed here at all. Maybe this is where everyone should focus, deal with your local broadcasters to get full 7-day PSIP data out there. That's better than all your wasted efforts so far crying over the loss of TVGOS.

This is much improved from over a month ago when some channels had a grid that only displayed generic titles such as "WFRV-HD" and several channels displayed "No Information Available" even for the current hour. Maybe some of my emails to the stations have prompted this, or the stations are reacting on their own to the need to provide better data now that the TVGOS is no longer available in this market.

One thing I really hate about the PSIP is that some of the data is just a description of the program itself, and not the episode description. An example would be this from the Simpsons: "An unconventional family attempts to live their day-to-day life in the "small" town of Springfield and deal with the pressures of working at a nuclear power plant, going to elementary school and getting into various shenanigans around their city."

Other channels only give the program title, and then for information on the program it reads "No Information Available". It sure would be nice to have the actual program description to know if it's a repeat or if the subject matter is of interest, especially on programs such as those on PBS which are often an entirely new topic each week.

Excellent, that is the answer I have been looking for. So without TVGOS, eventually the clock will unlock on its own. So my theory that the timezonepkt has to be wiped out is only valid if TVGOS is still active. It may not even be the timezonepkt (although it is the timezonepkt that initially causes the clock to lock), but any listing data still on the DTVPal may cause the clock to stay locked. The Factory Default is only necessary if you still have TVGOS data, and want to go with PSIP only.

Mark

Sure, Attached is log for today, 12:05~12:36 EST ...

Sorry I didn't get it started until 12:05 ...

Checked DTVPal DVR at about 12:50pm, Still no sign of TVGoS EPG data beyond 1/29 4AM ...

WKRCATSCMonitorLog127_2013.zip 12k .zip file

Thanks for that. There is definitely something being sent out that registers as listing data (ID=70). A couple of other posters here get data from WKRC, WillN937, and Paul210, both of them reported about a month ago that TVGOS was gone from WKRC Did it come back after that? I can't tell what's going on.

Mark

Here is updated version of the DLL ( more accurate counting of different IDs).

The DLL output for Standard: tvgos.JPG 133k .JPG file and for Lite tvgos_lite.JPG 102k .JPG file

EDIT: updated DLL - added more ID names (thanks to Mark). ATSCMonitor.zip 61k .zip file
Edited by P Smith - 1/27/13 at 7:10pm

^ Thanks, P Smith ... I'll check it out ...


Yep, I'm not sure if I want to lose my timers at this time, but I might try a reset on DTVPal DVR and see what happens ....do note that the TVGOS time data is still working fine with it .... I didn't realize the downloads from ROVI had been changed/limited to only 1x per day (12:06~12:31pm), as I recall it used to happen much more often than that (such as overnight every hour beginning just after midnight/etc) ....

Yes, it did, and also that was different issue... Rather than go into that previous issue here in detail, here is info/ discussion of that previous issue :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/306883/cincinnati-oh-hdtv/14070#post_22750617

http://www.avsforum.com/t/306883/cincinnati-oh-hdtv/14070#post_22752295

http://www.avsforum.com/t/306883/cincinnati-oh-hdtv/14070#post_22763102
Edited by Nitewatchman - 1/27/13 at 1:16pm

Have not seen TVGOS from WKRC in over a month, logo disappeared on its own with no reset required. My time is not grayed out either.

The listing downloads still get sent 8 times a day (approximately every two hours for 25 minutes). The first one is at 12:56am, and the last one is at 4:41pm. I just picked the one that was closest to the time you had captured yesterday.

Mark

One way I could imagine why you are seeing what you are seeing might be if you had scanned for channels (or "add channel" WKRC indivudually)/etc. when WKRC's Transport Stream was broken in regards to the TVGoS streams as was the case in Late December(as described in those posts in Cincinnati thread) ..

EDIT: It's been fine here from WKRC since about Dec 30 up until I have lost TVGoS listings past Tue 1/29 4am ...If I recall correctly I do think I deleted the WKRC channels and rescanned it (add channel) when I noticed via TSreader they had straightened things out with their transport stream(in addition to reinputing a Cincy DMA zip code because I had temporarily set it to 00000 as noted in Those Cincy thread posts)

.... Anyway, If you mess with it+get it working, please let me know if you have any TVGoS data past Tue 1/29 at 4am, thanks!

See attached pics and the posts in Cincinnati thread I provided links to in my last post ....

TVGoSfromWKRC1.jpg 67k .jpg file ...

TVGoSfromWKRC2.jpg 34k .jpg file
Edited by Nitewatchman - 1/27/13 at 2:32pm

OK, thanks, I guess I just managed to hit "all the wrong times" on my previous checks, LOL, as for instance I'd thought it had started just after midnight rather than just before 1AM ... Anyway, I checked it at 4~5pm, and the downloads were there (whatever is in them!)

Do note that The TVGos Data has never worked on DTVPal DVR for about 1/2 the Cincinnati Market stations ...

In one case, (WCET) -- It DID work(this was back around 2009 or so) -- until they added some additional program streams ....

I feel your pain. Out of 11 stations that I have turned on, only 4 of them have ever had TVGOS data. All 11 of those stations have TVGOS data in the Sony. Which is why I won't miss the TVGOS data on the DTVPal when it is gone.

Mark

Here is a comparison of listing data from my host station (captured an hour ago), and WKRC. WKRC's data was smaller than my station's, but that may be normal.

WKRC listing data:

KWCH listing data:

No TVGoS data here past 4:00 am on the 29th from WKRC-same as you.

Who knows, but I'd certianly think it possible differences in local listings(and including any changes in the listings for the 12pm vs 4:30pm update?) could easily account for the difference, as it doesn't seem that great a difference ..

I'm working on testing some settings for Avisynth filters for 8MM film restoration scripts with several instances of Vdub running, and noticed I must have inadvertently closed TSReader/cut it off in the middle of the download at 4:49, but I did notice the following errors occuring all before the Rovi Download began -- ~4:41 was the first ID69 entry in log, 4:44 was the first ID70 entry)

I suppose TEI errors (due to "reception" issues) could be involved with those, but that would be unusual --- unfortunetly I didn't get a chance to check for those as again I accidently closed Tsreader before I wanted to ...

Started the log about 16:14, here is the summary for what I got before I cut it off at 4:49 :

Edit/update : The above is using the updated atscmonitor.dll P smith posted earlier .
Edited by Nitewatchman - 1/27/13 at 3:46pm

Thanks, Paul, that helps a lot ...

I was pretty much ready to pull the plug on using the TVGOS when WKRC had their glitch a month ago .... But curiousity got the better of me, as is the case currently, but at this point I think I'd just as soon they go ahead and pull the the Rovi encoder out of the Mux permanently and get it over with ...