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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 534

post #15991 of 18096
Mpmp0: That probably makes the most sense. Your mom will be happy with the TiVo. You can set it to record the whole "Dancing With the Stars" series and it'll never miss another episode. And you'll be happy with the Pal. At least you won't need to delete Ion as with the TViX wink.gif

Wo220: WATL is a full-power station, so they should be sending some guide info. But it might have gotten messed up. I've seen that happen here in the DFW area. Sometimes it can take weeks to get a station's EPG fixed! WATL may not have even known it was on the fritz until you emailed wink.gif
post #15992 of 18096
Surveyed my channels this morning. Noticed that the ABC affiliate was sending out 3 days of PSIP. Great! CBS and NBC and ION are all sending out 11 hours worth or so. One of the PBS channels was sending out 12, the other PBS channel was sending out none. I called them up when I got to work. Finally got to the engineer, and he confirmed it wasn't working, and they had just not noticed. I asked him how much they send out, and he said as a personal preference of his, he likes to send out 3 days. He said they have 20 MBytes to allocate to the two sub channels, and that sending out 3 days of data takes about 1 MBytes, and that actually sacrifices some picture quality. I told him I appreciated the 3 days of data, and would let him know if I see any picture quality issues since I'm watching on a repeater. Anyway, so far my box is working just fine with PSIP.
post #15993 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

And you'll be happy with the Pal. At least you won't need to delete Ion as with the TViX wink.gif

For the record, one of the authorised resellers sent a TViX to her local ION station to help them figure out what they were doing to crash it, and a fix for the problem has supposedly been rolled out nationwide. Several members have reported adding ION to their channel lists again without problems. Perhaps ION's reign of terror for TViX owners is over. wink.gif
post #15994 of 18096
Washington, DC users - I checked with our DC area transmitter of TVGOS and apparently, TVGOS is being eliminated over-the-air. Below is a copy of the email received by the local CBS affiliates technical director.

Date: Sun 02/10/13 05:35 PM

Dear Mr. Noon,
I just found out this week that TVGOS has ceased over the air
operations. I've been instructed to return their servers and remove
them from my transmit chain. I'm not sure what their future plans are.

Sorry,

Victor Murphy
Director of Technology & Operations
WUSA*9 | 4100 Wisconsin Ave NW | Washington DC 20016

As the capitol of the nation goes, so goes the country?
Edited by gary-in-dc - 2/12/13 at 7:40pm
post #15995 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpmp0 View Post

The "Mom" guy here again...

Yes, we were able to catch up to the show, I think at ABC.com or something.

(Again, I don't want this thread to turn into a Dr. Phil episode about my Mom and me but...if she had just kept the computer that was unobtrusively kept in the vicinity of her TV, much of this would have been avoided. There's more story here, about a computer being given away to some nieces and nephews who "needed it for school" (but which wound up playing video games it seems!!!) but I want to keep it short...[GRRRRRRR])

And, hey, guys, hands of the dvr!! (ha-ha)

I evaluated the DTVPAL before giving it to her and thought it was a neat little device. But I manually program an unregistered TIVO Premiere (746320), a TIVX, and a few computer sources. I'll probably see if I can register the TIVO and get service on it to give to her. Then take the DTVPAL myself and program it manually.

Thanks again!

You do have Internet access for her to get the TIVO downloaded. right? I thought I heard they did away with the updating TIVO by a landline phone.
post #15996 of 18096
I have had mine for about 6 mos. I upgraded to 500GB. I guess my real questions is can the 250GB used in a computer. NO not to pull video off. Just to format and use as a PC drive.I have tried Windows, gparted, and dos. I can not get any of these to format my drive. Any help greatly appreciated. A link to how to get it formatted or is it just that the firmware wont recognize it.best tablet pc reviews
Edited by ackergwj - 3/18/13 at 7:39pm
post #15997 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


WATL is a full-power station, so they should be sending some guide info. But it might have gotten messed up. I've seen that happen here in the DFW area. Sometimes it can take weeks to get a station's EPG fixed! WATL may not have even known it was on the fritz until you emailed wink.gif

Oh, Snap! I have had the best luck with the local stations yesterday. I did email WATL, and lo and behold, they wrote me back and the program guide miraculously appeared that afternoon. I also contacted every broadcast station in Atlanta and asked them to consider expanding their listings from 12 hours to 72 or more. I was very polite in the email, and just pointed out that having expanded program listings affects what shows we watch.Our ABC station instantly went up to 24 hours, and said they would see how it goes for 48 (something about if they send out too much info, it interferes with people's ability to view the channel?) All the other stations said they would look into going at least to 48. While it isn't the full week we used to have with TVGOS, it's still pretty good.
post #15998 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackergwj View Post

I have had mine for about 6 mos. I upgraded to 500GB. I guess my real questions is can the 250GB used in a computer. NO not to pull video off. Just to format and use as a PC drive.I have tried Windows, gparted, and dos. I can not get any of these to format my drive. Any help greatly appreciated. A link to how to get it formatted or is it just that the firmware wont recognize it.1.gif

A quick answer is "YES". I upgraded my 2 units and both 250 GB drives are in my PCs. I did not take the time to search this forum for the specific instructions but they are here for you on how to format the drive. One involves using LINUX if you are comfortable with Linux. Otherwise there are utilities out there. Do a search on this forum and you will get the answers. Some might reply with the exact instructions.

What version of Windows do you have?
post #15999 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary-in-dc View Post

You do have Internet access for her to get the TIVO downloaded. right? I thought I heard they did away with the updating TIVO by a landline phone.

No, you can still get guide data via dial-up, but if you have a Premiere, you need to get the "Phone Line Adapter" add-on, which costs (I believe) about $30, and plugs into one of the Premiere's USB ports. It's basically just a USB dial-up modem.
post #16000 of 18096
Please, do not derail the thread to other totally different product.
post #16001 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by James_in_Utah View Post

Surveyed my channels this morning. Noticed that the ABC affiliate was sending out 3 days of PSIP. Great! CBS and NBC and ION are all sending out 11 hours worth or so. One of the PBS channels was sending out 12, the other PBS channel was sending out none. I called them up when I got to work. Finally got to the engineer, and he confirmed it wasn't working, and they had just not noticed. I asked him how much they send out, and he said as a personal preference of his, he likes to send out 3 days. He said they have 20 MBytes to allocate to the two sub channels, and that sending out 3 days of data takes about 1 MBytes, and that actually sacrifices some picture quality. I told him I appreciated the 3 days of data, and would let him know if I see any picture quality issues since I'm watching on a repeater. Anyway, so far my box is working just fine with PSIP.

19.3 Mbps, to be precise. </spock> My completely subjective observation is that you need about 10Mbps for reasonable HD and 2.5Mbps for reasonable SD, plus a little more for audio; perhaps a bit less if a statmux is used. But it is subjective and depends on things like the size of your TV screen, so some find anything under 15Mbps for HD unacceptable.

I'm actually a bit surprised a 3-day guide takes even 1Mbps bandwidth. Generally, the further in the future an EIT block is, the less frequently it's transmitted, so you can send out quite a bit of guide data without sacrificing picture quality. (The details may depend on the station's equipment, though.) The trade-off is that it takes longer for a box like the Pal to download all the guide data, so it may not get all the data during its automatic scans. If you see less guide than you think you should, try "lingering" on the channel for a few minutes and see if the rest eventually fills in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

WATL is a full-power station, so they should be sending some guide info. But it might have gotten messed up. I've seen that happen here in the DFW area. Sometimes it can take weeks to get a station's EPG fixed! WATL may not have even known it was on the fritz until you emailed wink.gif

Oh, Snap! I have had the best luck with the local stations yesterday. I did email WATL, and lo and behold, they wrote me back and the program guide miraculously appeared that afternoon. I also contacted every broadcast station in Atlanta and asked them to consider expanding their listings from 12 hours to 72 or more. I was very polite in the email, and just pointed out that having expanded program listings affects what shows we watch.Our ABC station instantly went up to 24 hours, and said they would see how it goes for 48 (something about if they send out too much info, it interferes with people's ability to view the channel?) All the other stations said they would look into going at least to 48. While it isn't the full week we used to have with TVGOS, it's still pretty good.

I'm often surprised how few folks actually pay any attention to the guide info. Mostly it's just folks with PSIP-based DVRs like us that care what's on more than a few hours from now. So it's really easy for these things to go out and for no one to notice, let alone complain.
post #16002 of 18096
Looks like TVGOS in Dallas is gone after 2-19 4AM.

How long before the TVGuide logo goes away by itself?
post #16003 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Looks like TVGOS in Dallas is gone after 2-19 4AM.

How long before the TVGuide logo goes away by itself?
See posts above.
post #16004 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

See posts above.
Over 16,000 posts... which one?
post #16005 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Over 16,000 posts... which one?
Last week or two.
post #16006 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

19.3 Mbps, to be precise. </spock> My completely subjective observation is that you need about 10Mbps for reasonable HD and 2.5Mbps for reasonable SD, plus a little more for audio; perhaps a bit less if a statmux is used. But it is subjective and depends on things like the size of your TV screen, so some find anything under 15Mbps for HD unacceptable.

I'm actually a bit surprised a 3-day guide takes even 1Mbps bandwidth. Generally, the further in the future an EIT block is, the less frequently it's transmitted, so you can send out quite a bit of guide data without sacrificing picture quality. (The details may depend on the station's equipment, though.) The trade-off is that it takes longer for a box like the Pal to download all the guide data, so it may not get all the data during its automatic scans. If you see less guide than you think you should, try "lingering" on the channel for a few minutes and see if the rest eventually fills in.
I'm often surprised how few folks actually pay any attention to the guide info. Mostly it's just folks with PSIP-based DVRs like us that care what's on more than a few hours from now. So it's really easy for these things to go out and for no one to notice, let alone complain.
I can tell: KPIX has ~100 kbps bandwidth for PSIP data (48 hrs).

Today KPIX has no PID 0x110 (VBI) and 0x111 (TVGoS). So, the ROVI box disconnected finally.
Edited by P Smith - 2/13/13 at 6:48pm
post #16007 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

Oh, Snap! I have had the best luck with the local stations yesterday. I did email WATL, and lo and behold, they wrote me back and the program guide miraculously appeared that afternoon. I also contacted every broadcast station in Atlanta and asked them to consider expanding their listings from 12 hours to 72 or more. I was very polite in the email, and just pointed out that having expanded program listings affects what shows we watch.Our ABC station instantly went up to 24 hours, and said they would see how it goes for 48 (something about if they send out too much info, it interferes with people's ability to view the channel?) All the other stations said they would look into going at least to 48. While it isn't the full week we used to have with TVGOS, it's still pretty good.
Anyone try that with our local Houston stations?

Gonna do that tomorrow.... and hope for a Valentines miracle. smile.gif
post #16008 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Morris View Post

Anyone try that with our local Houston stations?

Gonna do that tomorrow.... and hope for a Valentines miracle. smile.gif

I also wrote back to every station after they responded, and thanked them personally for what they did. In most cases, I heard from the programming people, but I also heard from an engineer or two (who I think must be a lonely bunch, sequestered away in their rooms full of equipment.)
post #16009 of 18096
I emailed the big three (WBAL NBC, WMAR ABC, WJZ CBS) in Baltimore asking them to extend their PSIP data past the 11-12 hours they currently send. No reply from any, no change. If anyone else wants to pile on, please do, maybe we will get more traction with a few more voices. I did not contact WBFF Fox and WNUV CW as they already send over 24 hours out.
post #16010 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary-in-dc View Post

Washington, DC users - I checked with our DC area transmitter of TVGOS and apparently, TVGOS is being eliminated over-the-air. Below is a copy of the email received by the local CBS affiliates technical director.

Date: Sun 02/10/13 05:35 PM

Dear Mr. Noon,
I just found out this week that TVGOS has ceased over the air
operations. I've been instructed to return their servers and remove
them from my transmit chain. I'm not sure what their future plans are.

Sorry,

Victor Murphy
Director of Technology & Operations
WUSA*9 | 4100 Wisconsin Ave NW | Washington DC 20016

As the capitol of the nation goes, so goes the country?

We own two CM-7000PAL DVRs, had noticed the limited TV guide listings, and now we know why. I'm very sad to hear this, but at least I can stop my trouble-shooting.

Someone mentioned here that the ABC affiliate may be broadcasting 3 days of PSIP, but isn't the CM-7000PAL effectively locked onto only CBS (in Wash DC, channel 9)? Or is there some way to force it to use ABC? That would sure be nice......

John
post #16011 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D-H View Post

We own two CM-7000PAL DVRs, had noticed the limited TV guide listings, and now we know why. I'm very sad to hear this, but at least I can stop my trouble-shooting.

Someone mentioned here that the ABC affiliate may be broadcasting 3 days of PSIP, but isn't the CM-7000PAL effectively locked onto only CBS (in Wash DC, channel 9)? Or is there some way to force it to use ABC? That would sure be nice......

John
The CBS or ABC thing only applied to getting TVGOS.
With TVGOS gone, the recorder relies on PSIP data,
which is transmitted by each individual station.
post #16012 of 18096
For those still with TVGOS feeds, does your NBC (KNBC4 in Los Angeles/L.A. for me) station show 30 minutes of new Office episode tonight? Three online TV guides say it is an hour. It looks like TVGOS is getting outdated/incorrect data these days?

Also, is there a downloadable PDF manual of our DTV Pal DVR? http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/DTVPal_DVR_UG.pdf is no longer there as shown on the first thread post. frown.gif
Edited by phildaant - 2/14/13 at 10:40am
post #16013 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

For those still with TVGOS feeds, does your NBC (KNBC4 in Los Angeles/L.A. for me) station show 30 minutes of new Office episode tonight? Three online TV guides say it is an hour. It looks like TVGOS is getting outdated/incorrect data these days?

I imagine the schedule change happened after TVGOS listings ended for L.A. (no listings starting with next Tues).
post #16014 of 18096
Working on Austin stations to improve PSIP listings. As mentioned before PBS responded almost instantly after I talked to them. They now are going out almost 24 hours. NBC and CBS are still lagging behind. I emailed both station engineers and didn't get a response. So today I called their programming departments and got positive reactions from both. They were unaware of the ROVI fiasco and not pleased that at 9:00am, there was no PSIP information available for their 9:00pm primetime shows. Both were going to talk to engineering and try to find a solution. Telling this story to encourage folks to call stations providing inadequate PSIP and that programming might be more interested in fixing things than the engineers (who will have to actually make it happen).
post #16015 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Possumgirl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

For those still with TVGOS feeds, does your NBC (KNBC4 in Los Angeles/L.A. for me) station show 30 minutes of new Office episode tonight? Three online TV guides say it is an hour. It looks like TVGOS is getting outdated/incorrect data these days?

I imagine the schedule change happened after TVGOS listings ended for L.A. (no listings starting with next Tues).
Confirmed. 4:00 AM PST had no information. [sniffs]
Edited by phildaant - 2/14/13 at 11:20pm
post #16016 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Also, is there a downloadable PDF manual of our DTV Pal DVR? http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/DTVPal_DVR_UG.pdf is no longer there as shown on the first thread post. frown.gif
PM me your E-Mail address & I'll send you a copy.
post #16017 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Also, is there a downloadable PDF manual of our DTV Pal DVR? http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/DTVPal_DVR_UG.pdf is no longer there as shown on the first thread post. frown.gif
PM me your E-Mail address & I'll send you a copy.
Can't you post it on a file host server like http://uploadmirrors.com/ ? wink.gif
post #16018 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

The CBS or ABC thing only applied to getting TVGOS.
With TVGOS gone, the recorder relies on PSIP data,
which is transmitted by each individual station.

What determines which specific station's PSIP data is used? If the ABC affiliate in Wash DC has the most PSIP data, is it as simple as tuning to that station just before "powering it down" (since it never really does that anyway)? Sorry, never had to deal with this before.......
post #16019 of 18096
PSIP doesn't work like TVGOS. Each station is responsible for sending its own program information; there is no "host channel" like there is for TVGOS. Your ABC station may have more information than other stations, but the guide data it sends is only for the programming on ABC. Every other network is responsible for sending out its own guide data, and the number of available hours of data will consequently vary from station to station. If you have disabled TVGOS on your DTVPal, it should scan stations in the background to gather guide data. If your DTVPal is still expecting your TVGOS host channel to be sending TVGOS (even though it isn't), you may have to tune to each channel one by one to receive each station's guide data.
post #16020 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

... If you have disabled TVGOS on your DTVPal, it should scan stations in the background to gather guide data...
Is this effective from the menu without a reset, or do you need to do a factory reset and not enable TVGOS at setup to get rid of it and get the 'Pal to scan stations in the background for program info as you describe?
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