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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 536

post #16051 of 18096
With so many cities reported to have already lost TVGOS, I'm wondering who's still up and running. Charlotte hasn't been affected, yet. I hope they hang in there until midnight, April 1st. Maybe by then all of you (forced) early adopters of PSIP will have the minefields mapped out with suitable workarounds for us late comers.cool.gif
post #16052 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I only provide answers based on what others have shared in this thread, since new arrivals don't want to read 500 pages to catch up with the discussion; I don't have a unit of my own to test. Considering what's been posted in the last few months, your experience with the clock seems like an exception, rather than the rule. I recall this same discussion occurring a few pages back, but there weren't enough volunteers willing to deliberately set their clocks wrong at the time to test whether the manual clock setting would prevent the Pal from using PSIP time. Perhaps your results are definitive, as long as you don't reboot the unit (twice).

I think those earlier discussions were mostly speculation, about what would happen when PSIP took over. People were suspicious that bad PSIP data would throw their clocks off, and that they wouldn't be able to set their clock manually when their PSIP times were unreliable. I believe most of this discussion went on when people still had TVGOS, and their clocks were grayed out, and couldn't be changed. The only time I remember seeing a post where someone said they set the clock manually, but it didn't stay, was when they had TVGOS, and it would gray out the clock. With TVGOS you could reboot the DTVPal, and be able to manually set the clock for about 10 or 15 minutes. Then TVGOS would come back online, and set the time (overriding any manual time entered), and gray out the clock. Now that most everyone has switched over to PSIP, I think they are finding that it isn't bad at all.

There were a couple of things that I learned during the testing that I did:

1) It was possible for me to set the clock manually.
2) After setting the clock manually it drifted forward 8 seconds a day, and would probably be less accurate than any PSIP time error. At the least you would have to keep an eye on the clock, and correct it every couple of weeks.

Shortly after writing my last post, I decided to do the manual clock set experiment again. My clock had been locked to PSIP for nearly a week, and the TV Guide logo has been gone since last Wednesday. This time I bumped the clock just one minute ahead. A few minutes ago, I checked the DTVPal, and it is still one minute ahead... I'll watch what happens over time.

Mark
post #16053 of 18096
I don't have the means to check the clock drifting in seconds but I have been watching the minutes and so far it seems to be OK and staying in Sync with the TV clock. I'll see how it goes for the next week or so......
post #16054 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

As of a few hours ago, 40.4 has data but not the other 40.x. Weird! I will check again tomorrow after 4 AM PST to see what type of results I get without TVGOS feeds. Does TVGOS automatically go away after it doesn't get feeds anymore?

According to Possumgirl in the DHG thread, today is the last day of TVGOS listings on her DHG. Most likely your TV Guide logo will disappear sometime tomorrow. Any data you see beyond 4:00am tomorrow morning is PSIP data.
Its TVGOS logo is still there as a few minutes ago (before 7:00 AM PST). Time is still correct (didn't check its seconds). I randomly checked some channels days ahead:
KCBS2.1 to Th. 8:30 PM PST
KCAL9.1 to Wed. 5:30 AM PST
40.x to Tues. 9:30 PM PST
52(.1 and .2, but not .3) to Wed. 3:30 AM PST
All others seems to be populated for several hour. I will check again tonight/tomorrow. I left most of my weekly schedules intact. I manually added Academy Awards (5:25 PM PST to 8:35 PM PST since Guide didn't have it).
post #16055 of 18096
Could someone send me the manual for this or provide a link? It would be great if someone could give the pdf a semi-permanent home before it's extinct. I'm pretty competent at Googling, but all I can find are dead links. Please help!
post #16056 of 18096
I have the user manual pdf but I see no way to send it to you or attach a pdf file to this post.
post #16057 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

I have the user manual pdf but I see no way to send it to you or attach a pdf file to this post.
Upload it to http://uploadmirrors.com/ and it will spread to other host servers.
post #16058 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

I have the user manual pdf but I see no way to send it to you or attach a pdf file to this post.

 

Use the paperclip icon in the edit window to attach a .pdf file (if it's not too big for this site, it'll let you know).

post #16059 of 18096
Can't honestly say I have rights to distribute it, which this site asks.
post #16060 of 18096
I have two PalDVRs and I'm located ~60 miles NE of Los Angeles. Last week, in anticipation of TVGOS disappearing, I did a 'Factory Default' reset to only one unit, leaving the second unit operating with the remaining TVGOS as a comparison. During the 'Defaults' setup, I selected Zip Code 00000 and 'Disable TVGOS', then removed/deleted all of the foreign language and low-interest channels. Here are my observations:

1. After overnight turnoff/power down, most stations at current time had Guide List Programming with "No Information", requiring manual channel sequencing to initialize the guide with program information/titles. I also had to manually re-sequence/initialize the guide throughout the day - no automatic guide updating.

2. Un-reliable 'Event Timers' recording from clearly labeled programs - two out of eight evening programs scheduled did NOT record.

3. PSIP Clock only 18 seconds fast compared to my computer clock.

This morning (~9:00 am), I checked the other unit and the red TVGOS logo was still present. Later (~11:00 am), my check showed that the TVGOS logo was gone, so I did a complete 'Factory Defaults' reset with the same setting as before with the first unit, then removed/deleted all unwanted channels. Then I did a "Power-On Reset" to both units. Here are my observations:

1. A minimum of 10 hrs. of Guide Program Titles (PBS/non-network channels) with the major nation wide networks +12 hrs or more. Turn-off/power down (~2-3 hrs) had no effect on the depth of Guide Programming Titles. So far, very pleased with our local PSIP guide.

2. 'Event Timer' recording reliability pending evening Prime Time test.

3. PSIP Clock still only 18 sec. fast.

So, if you are experiencing poor guide updating or limited guide data or clock issues after the TVGOS logo has disappeared, try a "Power-On Reset" after you have culled unwanted channels. This may correct your problems.

Donald1800
Edited by Donald1800 - 2/19/13 at 1:39pm
post #16061 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrenemy View Post

Could someone send me the manual for this or provide a link? It would be great if someone could give the pdf a semi-permanent home before it's extinct. I'm pretty competent at Googling, but all I can find are dead links. Please help!

 

 

While somebody gets around to uploading the DTVPal guide, you might want the CM7000Pal guides for reference.  The following link has links to both the QuickStart and User Guides.  I've heard it is an improvement over the original manual. 

 

http://support.channelmaster.com/entries/21126047-cm7000pal

post #16062 of 18096
I'm not running the TR-50 for 24/7; so, after TVGoS is gone I did turn it a couple times, now it shows no TVGUIDE logo and date/time is unlocked without any my intervention to settings.
post #16063 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

[...]
1. After overnight turnoff/power down, most stations at current time had Guide List Programming with "No Information", requiring manual channel sequencing to initialize the guide with program information/titles. I also had to manually re-sequence/initialize the guide throughout the day - no automatic guide updating.
[...]

Mine does this almost every morning (which is interesting, because I don't remember it doing this before, when I did a factory defaults, and left the zip code at 00000), but the data is really there, the DTVPal just isn't showing it. Exiting the guide, and bringing it back up, is all it takes mine to display the data (no channel cycling required). Or you can also scroll to the right until the grid moves, and then scroll back, and the data is there.

Mark
post #16064 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

As of a few hours ago, 40.4 has data but not the other 40.x. Weird! I will check again tomorrow after 4 AM PST to see what type of results I get without TVGOS feeds. Does TVGOS automatically go away after it doesn't get feeds anymore?

According to Possumgirl in the DHG thread, today is the last day of TVGOS listings on her DHG. Most likely your TV Guide logo will disappear sometime tomorrow. Any data you see beyond 4:00am tomorrow morning is PSIP data.
Its TVGOS logo is still there as a few minutes ago (before 7:00 AM PST). Time is still correct (didn't check its seconds). I randomly checked some channels days ahead:
KCBS2.1 to Th. 8:30 PM PST
KCAL9.1 to Wed. 5:30 AM PST
40.x to Tues. 9:30 PM PST
52(.1 and .2, but not .3) to Wed. 3:30 AM PST
All others seems to be populated for several hour. I will check again tonight/tomorrow. I left most of my weekly schedules intact. I manually added Academy Awards (5:25 PM PST to 8:35 PM PST since Guide didn't have it).
My TVGOS is finally gone tonight! Only KCBS2.1 and KCAL9.1 are the ones that go 72 hours. All the rest vary. Some of them don't even have any! Oh well. I wonder if I will have to do anything.
post #16065 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

My TVGOS is finally gone tonight! Only KCBS2.1 and KCAL9.1 are the ones that go 72 hours. All the rest vary. Some of them don't even have any! Oh well. I wonder if I will have to do anything.

Just watch your clock. With PSIP it should be solid. Even if it is off several seconds, it should be off the same amount every day (5 seconds tonight, 5 seconds tomorrow night, 5 seconds the day after that, etc. If it drifts (off 10 seconds tonight, 20 seconds tomorrow night, 30 seconds the night after that, etc.), then you need to do something.
post #16066 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

My TVGOS is finally gone tonight! Only KCBS2.1 and KCAL9.1 are the ones that go 72 hours. All the rest vary. Some of them don't even have any! Oh well. I wonder if I will have to do anything.

Just watch your clock. With PSIP it should be solid. Even if it is off several seconds, it should be off the same amount every day (5 seconds tonight, 5 seconds tomorrow night, 5 seconds the day after that, etc. If it drifts (off 10 seconds tonight, 20 seconds tomorrow night, 30 seconds the night after that, etc.), then you need to do something.
So far, the times LOOK correct as my atomic clocks (didn't look at ths seconds). Where are the seconds shown? BTW, I think I have about 90 channels so hopefully that is enough to average out. Ha.
post #16067 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

So far, the times LOOK correct as my atomic clocks (didn't look at ths seconds). Where are the seconds shown? BTW, I think I have about 90 channels so hopefully that is enough to average out. Ha.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/16020#post_22968907
post #16068 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

So far, the times LOOK correct as my atomic clocks (didn't look at ths seconds). Where are the seconds shown? BTW, I think I have about 90 channels so hopefully that is enough to average out. Ha.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/16020#post_22968907
Ah, it doesn't show seconds. That suck. I am OK if it is close enough.
post #16069 of 18096
Odd that one of my 'Pals has no TVGOS logo now, but the other one still does. Both set up the same way.
post #16070 of 18096
Just now looking at what guide info is there on my 'Pal that still has the TVGOS logo. It has by itself filled in any available PSIP data to the channels in the guide. I haven't tuned to any but two OTA channels today so it's not from anything I have done. Waiting to see what happens to it without me doing anything, no resets so far. Makes me wonder if it's scanning the channels searching for the missing TVGOS signal, and adding the PSIP data as it goes.
post #16071 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

So far, the times LOOK correct as my atomic clocks (didn't look at ths seconds). Where are the seconds shown? BTW, I think I have about 90 channels so hopefully that is enough to average out. Ha.

I keep forgetting. From what I have been reading in the othe forums, both LA, and DFW have lost listings, but both cities still have their inserters installed. So your clock is still coming from TVGOS, and will continue to do so until the inserter is removed.
post #16072 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

So far, the times LOOK correct as my atomic clocks (didn't look at ths seconds). Where are the seconds shown? BTW, I think I have about 90 channels so hopefully that is enough to average out. Ha.

I keep forgetting. From what I have been reading in the othe forums, both LA, and DFW have lost listings, but both cities still have their inserters installed. So your clock is still coming from TVGOS, and will continue to do so until the inserter is removed.
Probably. KCBS2 and KCAL9 are as one ownership, but has the longest schedules.
post #16073 of 18096
Finally got to reset one of my Pals last night. Results were surprising.

Before I did anything, I checked the guide. No TV Guide logo anymore, as expected (the last of the TVGoS data ran out early yesterday morning). Clock still greyed out, also as expected (KTVT still has TVGoS equipment installed and sending time; just no guide).

Just out of curiosity, I did a soft reset. No change, again as expected. Noticed the "downloading guide" step took a very long time.

OK, it was time to try to get rid of TVGoS. I deleted KTVT, reset my zip to 00000, and did another soft reset. Clock un-greyed, as expected.

Then I added back KTVT. Clock greyed itself out again. That was not expected. Since I'd set my zip to 00000 I had no reason to expect any of the (misnamed) TVGoS zip code packets to match.

OK, apparently the Pal keeps some memory of your zip code area, which you can't remove by setting the zip to 00000 and rebooting.

This was the Pal that I was never able to add channel 68.4 to, and I only had four timers set up; so I decided to go to the next level and ran the initial setup wizard.

The setup wizard ran as expected at first, wiping out all my channels and timers, scanning for new channels (which picked up the troublesome 68.4), and asking for my time zone. But after I selected Central time, I got the message box "acquiring time." The clock then came up - and it was greyed out! The Pal hadn't even prompted me for the zip code yet (that was the next step). So even the setup wizard doesn't remove the memory of your zip code area!

Since I'd pretty much bit the bullet at that point anyhow (all my timers were gone and all my unwanted channels were back), I decided to do a full factory defaults reset before reentering my timers or deleting unwanted channels. That (finally) did the trick. After selecting Central time (again), the clock came up and was not greyed out. Also, the "downloading guide" step seemed noticeably faster.

I left the zip at 00000, then spent the next half hour or so resetting all my preferences, deleting unwanted channels, and re-entering my timers. I still have to go through and rename my channels. (I like to see the network, i.e. CBS, instead of call letters like KTVT.)

What a PITA. Unless I'm having trouble getting the guide data to download, I'm just going to leave the other Pal alone and wait for KTVT to pull the TVGoS equipment. Hopefully the clock will ungrey on its own when they get around to doing that, and I can get away with just a double reboot as mabuttra suggested.
post #16074 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

I have two PalDVRs and I'm located ~60 miles NE of Los Angeles. Last week, in anticipation of TVGOS disappearing, I did a 'Factory Default' reset to only one unit, leaving the second unit operating with the remaining TVGOS as a comparison. During the 'Defaults' setup, I selected Zip Code 00000 and 'Disable TVGOS', then removed/deleted all of the foreign language and low-interest channels. Here are my observations:

1. After overnight turnoff/power down, most stations at current time had Guide List Programming with "No Information", requiring manual channel sequencing to initialize the guide with program information/titles. I also had to manually re-sequence/initialize the guide throughout the day - no automatic guide updating.

2. Un-reliable 'Event Timers' recording from clearly labeled programs - two out of eight evening programs scheduled did NOT record.

3. PSIP Clock only 18 seconds fast compared to my computer clock.

This morning (~9:00 am), I checked the other unit and the red TVGOS logo was still present. Later (~11:00 am), my check showed that the TVGOS logo was gone, so I did a complete 'Factory Defaults' reset with the same setting as before with the first unit, then removed/deleted all unwanted channels. Then I did a "Power-On Reset" to both units. Here are my observations:

1. A minimum of 10 hrs. of Guide Program Titles (PBS/non-network channels) with the major nation wide networks +12 hrs or more. Turn-off/power down (~2-3 hrs) had no effect on the depth of Guide Programming Titles. So far, very pleased with our local PSIP guide.

2. 'Event Timer' recording reliability pending evening Prime Time test.

3. PSIP Clock still only 18 sec. fast.

So, if you are experiencing poor guide updating or limited guide data or clock issues after the TVGOS logo has disappeared, try a "Power-On Reset" after you have culled unwanted channels. This may correct your problems.

Donald1800

I'll recheck mine tonight and try that if the guide isn't updating.

BTW, your issue #2 sounds like the DST bug. It's that time of year again.
post #16075 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

[...]
OK, apparently the Pal keeps some memory of your zip code area, which you can't remove by setting the zip to 00000 and rebooting.
[...]

Correct, it is actually the timezonepkt that the DTVPal does not let go of even with multiple soft reboots. As long as that is there, and there is TVGOS clock data still coming in (and you haven't deleted the host channel from the channel list), it doesn't matter what you do (short of a Factory Defaults), the clock will stay grayed out. Once the clock data stops, then one soft reboot should ungray the clock, but it may then be drifting. A second soft reboot should lock a drifitng clock to the PSIP time.
post #16076 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

[...]
OK, apparently the Pal keeps some memory of your zip code area, which you can't remove by setting the zip to 00000 and rebooting.
[...]

Correct, it is actually the timezonepkt that the DTVPal does not let go of even with multiple soft reboots. As long as that is there, and there is TVGOS clock data still coming in (and you haven't deleted the host channel from the channel list), it doesn't matter what you do (short of a Factory Defaults), the clock will stay grayed out. Once the clock data stops, then one soft reboot should ungray the clock, but it may then be drifting. A second soft reboot should lock a drifitng clock to the PSIP time.

What surprised me most is that it still recognizes the TVGoS clock data even if the zip code no longer matches any of the incoming TVGoS data. I didn't expect either a soft reboot or resetting the zip code to do the job alone, but combined?

I wonder if changing the zip to another valid zip code resets the looked-up area. I think it might because when I bought my other (used) Pal, I didn't do a factory defaults reset; I just ran the setup wizard, entered my zip code, and it recognized the TVGoS data coming from KTVT.

If so, one thing that might work (short of a factory defaults reset) would be to enter a zip code that's valid, but that belongs to an area not covered by your local TVGoS host. If KTVT doesn't disconnect their TVGoS equipment soon, I may try a NYC or L.A. zip code on my other Pal just to see what it does.
post #16077 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

What surprised me most is that it still recognizes the TVGoS clock data even if the zip code no longer matches any of the incoming TVGoS data. I didn't expect either a soft reboot or resetting the zip code to do the job alone, but combined?

I wonder if changing the zip to another valid zip code resets the looked-up area. I think it might because when I bought my other (used) Pal, I didn't do a factory defaults reset; I just ran the setup wizard, entered my zip code, and it recognized the TVGoS data coming from KTVT.

If so, one thing that might work (short of a factory defaults reset) would be to enter a zip code that's valid, but that belongs to an area not covered by your local TVGoS host. If KTVT doesn't disconnect their TVGoS equipment soon, I may try a NYC or L.A. zip code on my other Pal just to see what it does.

That won't work either, but feel free to try it. The 15 second timestamps (clock data) are always received. They are not zip code dependent data. All the other data that KTVT sends out are for Dallas area zip codes, but switching to an invalid zip code just means it won't receive any new zip code dependent data, but it will still hold onto the old data (timezonepkt), and will still receive clock data.
post #16078 of 18096
TVGOS listings have disappeared in Boston. frown.gif The last listings that I have end on Wednesday, 02/27 at 4 am. My TVGOS data comes from Boston's WBZ channel 4 which is a CBS owned-and-operated station.

The chief engineer from WBZ channel 4 in Boston has confirmed that TVGOS has ended in Boston in his posting in the Boston, MA OTA thread.
Edited by trp2525 - 2/21/13 at 5:24am
post #16079 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

That won't work either, but feel free to try it. The 15 second timestamps (clock data) are always received. They are not zip code dependent data. All the other data that KTVT sends out are for Dallas area zip codes, but switching to an invalid zip code just means it won't receive any new zip code dependent data, but it will still hold onto the old data (timezonepkt), and will still receive clock data.

I guess what you're saying is, if TVGoS is active in your area, once you enter a valid zip code for your area, it saves info from these 'timezonepkt's, and once that happens, there are only two ways to change that saved info:
1. Factory defaults reset
2. Move the Pal to another area with TVGoS active, enter a valid zip code for that area, and receive a 'timezonepkt' from that area's TVGoS host station.

... with method 1 being the only way to erase saved 'timezonepkt' info. Method 2 is even more of a PITA than method 1 anyhow (not to mention becoming less and less practical as TVGoS goes away in more and more markets).

It's far too late to test now, but I wonder what would've happened if I'd left the zip code alone in the used Pal I bought. Presumably, I wouldn't have gotten any guide data from TVGoS because the original owner's zip code wasn't valid for DFW, but I wonder if it would have locked the clock anyway, because his saved 'timezonepkt' info was still there (I never did a factory defaults reset on that Pal)?

Unless part of the info it saves is the TVGoS host channel. If so, that might have stopped the clock from locking onto KTVT (assuming the original owner's TVGoS host was on a different channel) until a valid DFW zip code was entered.
post #16080 of 18096
So I've been experiencing weird time behaviors for quite a while now. One of the steps I took to try and figure out why was to contact all of the stations I receive who send/sent TVGOS information. (I wasn't sure which of them had been my source.) I asked each of them whether or not they still had the equipment, and if they did were they still sending out time packets. The response I received from one station's engineer informed me that "PBS stations carried the Analog version of TVGOS, that went away quite awhile ago. Rovi made a deal with CBS to carry the digital version, so the only stations that have the TVGOS inserters are CBS." I don't recall having seen anyone mention such specifics vis-a-vis PBS vs. CBS on the TVGOS front, so I thought you might find that tidbit interesting. He also sent me a copy of Rovi's release on the matter, if anyone's curious--though I don't know if I'm allowed to post the details here or upload the PDF (Can I? Anyone? It does say confidential on the bottom ... but then he shared it with me, didn't he? tongue.gif).
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