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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 539

post #16141 of 18096
Looks like they raised the price $10 since I last checked yesterday. It is now $279. But still a reasonable price for a new version of this item.
post #16142 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

As far as anyone's been able to tell, the CM-7000's F400 is identical to the DTVPal's F208 except for cosmetic differences (screen colors, logos, etc.), so whichever one you have, you're on the Pal's latest firmware.
Well they said these DTVPal versions would ship from Antenna Logic with the latest F208 firmware installed. So I went ahead and ordered one of these new in the box versions now available from this seller. I think a good deal on a good DVR that has been very hard to find new in the box until recently. And this version has a much better tuner than the CM-7400 which replaced it. Sometimes the CM-7000Pal version is still made available from Channel Master, but this price seems to be better.
post #16143 of 18096
DUE TO RECENT CHANGES.................
I think page 1 needs a MAJOR makeover. 'Ya think ?
post #16144 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjoe43 View Post

DUE TO RECENT CHANGES.................
I think page 1 needs a MAJOR makeover. 'Ya think ?
I agree. It has outdated information. frown.gif
post #16145 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Well they said these DTVPal versions would ship from Antenna Logic with the latest F208 firmware installed. So I went ahead and ordered one of these new in the box versions now available from this seller. I think a good deal on a good DVR that has been very hard to find new in the box until recently. And this version has a much better tuner than the CM-7400 which replaced it. Sometimes the CM-7000Pal version is still made available from Channel Master, but this price seems to be better.

Agreed. Interestingly, Antenna Logic is also selling a clone of the CM-7400 (with the brand Entone and a much-needed cooling fan) for $379! But unlike the CM-7400, the Entone doesn't offer the optional paid guide. And there have been reports that the CM-7400 doesn't automatically scan channels often enough to keep the PSIP-based guide updated, as the Pal DVRs do; worse, the CM-7400 uses name-based recording so if the guide doesn't stay up to date, you miss recordings! Presumably the Entone would have the same problem. Not sure if the Entone will do VUDU like the CM-7400, but even if it does, all things considered the DTVPal seems a much better deal for OTA viewers.
post #16146 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Well they said these DTVPal versions would ship from Antenna Logic with the latest F208 firmware installed. So I went ahead and ordered one of these new in the box versions now available from this seller. I think a good deal on a good DVR that has been very hard to find new in the box until recently. And this version has a much better tuner than the CM-7400 which replaced it. Sometimes the CM-7000Pal version is still made available from Channel Master, but this price seems to be better.

Agreed. Interestingly, Antenna Logic is also selling a clone of the CM-7400 (with the brand Entone and a much-needed cooling fan) for $379! But unlike the CM-7400, the Entone doesn't offer the optional paid guide. And there have been reports that the CM-7400 doesn't automatically scan channels often enough to keep the PSIP-based guide updated, as the Pal DVRs do; worse, the CM-7400 uses name-based recording so if the guide doesn't stay up to date, you miss recordings! Presumably the Entone would have the same problem. Not sure if the Entone will do VUDU like the CM-7400, but even if it does, all things considered the DTVPal seems a much better deal for OTA viewers.
Are CM's tuners cheaper? Older versions? What is worse with theirs?
post #16147 of 18096
The tuner in the CM-7400 is not as good as the CM-7000Pal. It has problematic issues with error correction and perhaps amplification. Even if signal strength is good, it will not decode a signal if the signal quality is a bit off. Unlike the CM-7000/DTVPal which has a very sensitive tuner. Which makes the 7400 a poor choice for an OTA DVR if you are dealing with distant or fringe signals. And the Entone version probably uses the same tuner since they also manufactured the 7400 box for Channel Master. But I would be curious to see if they upgraded the tuner in their newest version which now includes a fan to prevent overheating.
post #16148 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

The tuner in the CM-7400 is not as good as the CM-7000Pal. It has problematic issues with error correction and perhaps amplification. Even if signal strength is good, it will not decode a signal if the signal quality is a bit off. Unlike the CM-7000/DTVPal which has a very sensitive tuner. Which makes the 7400 a poor choice for an OTA DVR if you are dealing with distant or fringe signals. And the Entone version probably uses the same tuner since they also manufactured the 7400 box for Channel Master. But I would be curious to see if they upgraded the tuner in their newest version which now includes a fan to prevent overheating.
Interesting. Yeah, my signals is not always good but my DTVPal DVR does well most of the times. It sounds like old DTVPal DVR is still good for OTA. smile.gif
post #16149 of 18096
Has anyone tried the Dish Network IR-to-UHF Pro Remote Control Upgrade Kit ES123804 with their Pal DVR. I have two DVR's in one room that I am able to see on my TV in another room via component cables. Unfortunately, because the DVR is IR, the remote doesn't work through the wall, so I'm unable to take advantage of the skip button. I did a search on the model # in this forum but got no results. Thanks
post #16150 of 18096
Well my TVGOS listings ended this morning at 4 am so I decided to do a reset to factory settings on both of my DTVPal DVRs to clear out any remnants of TVGOS. One of my DVRs is at firmware F201 (original as shipped in December 2008) and the other one is at F208. The F201 firmware has served me very well over the last 4+ years with TVGOS and I'm anxious to see how it behaves with PSIP only.

So far I have noticed a difference in the time accuracy of the two different firmware versions. This could be attributed to how each version calculates and sets the "correct" time. After doing the factory reset and letting each DVR sit in standby mode (green light off) for a few hours I checked the clocks in each DVR against a radio-controlled clock. The F201 was slow by 48 seconds and the F208 was slow by 27 seconds. Not that much of a difference but certainly worth mentioning.

Prior to doing the factory resets this morning the F201 DVR still showed the TVGOS logo in the guide and its clock-setting screen was grayed out. The F208 DVR did not show the TVGOS logo prior to the reset but its clock setting screen was also grayed out. After the reset both DVRs had the manual clock-setting screen functional and the TVGOS logo had now also disappeared from the F201 DVR.

I did a manual adjustment of the F201 DVR so that it is exact to the second with my radio-controlled clock. I want to see if it drifts and, if so, by how much. For now I'm leaving the F208 alone to see how its "weighted mean" calculation works with PSIP to keep the time consistent. Depending on the results I may update my F201 to F208 but "if it's not broke don't fix it." For all I know F201 may work better for me than F208 does for keeping accurate time at my location. eek.gif

One interesting difference that I noted in the F201 firmware compared to the F208 firmware is that you can set the "start early" and "end late" times in F201 to a maximum of 60 minutes for each where the F208 only allows for a maximum 5-minute offset for each. I wonder what prompted the programmers to change the range of those user-adjustable settings. confused.gif
post #16151 of 18096
My parent's DTVPal DVR apparently locked up last night while recording. The unit was off at the time. They went to watch the show later, and nothing would come up. They only had a green light on the front of the unit. I told them how to reboot it, which resulted in the boot up screen, which then went to the downloading guide data screen. Once that finished, nothing but a black screen: no channels, no menus, no nothing. After three to five minutes, it would reboot on its own. I had them disconnect the antenna cable and reboot, which yielded the same results. They tried this numerous times.

I finally went over to their house to see if there was anything else I could try. When I got there, the tuner was actually working for one channel, but you couldn't change it or access any menus. So, I repeated the boot process, disconnecting the antenna cable, even tried hitting cancel during the guide download, which it did, but still nothing. The channel would sometimes come up when I rebooted.

I unplugged it when I left and told them I'd try powering it up again later today.

I can hear the drive and fan are still spinning. I checked through this thread and Page 1, and saw many lock up and reboot issues, but nothing resulting in not being able to access the menus.

It has the F208 firmware. We're in the Dallas market. TVGOS is gone. The unit had been working fine with PSIP data.

Any ideas or is it dead?
post #16152 of 18096
Could be FW become corrupted ...
post #16153 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Could be FW become corrupted ...

Should I try to re-install the F208 firmware? I still have the update file. Would I just plug in the USB thumb drive then plug the power back in, or apply the power then insert the USB? Does it matter if the boot screen is up?
post #16154 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmz44 View Post

Has anyone tried the Dish Network IR-to-UHF Pro Remote Control Upgrade Kit ES123804 with their Pal DVR. I have two DVR's in one room that I am able to see on my TV in another room via component cables. Unfortunately, because the DVR is IR, the remote doesn't work through the wall, so I'm unable to take advantage of the skip button. I did a search on the model # in this forum but got no results. Thanks

Not familiar with Dish's kit, but I use Next Generation 's "Remote Control Extender" which does the same job. It's very easy to install and works fine with the DTVPal remote, or with a universal remote (as long as it uses AAA or AA batteries). I bought mine at Summit Source but Amazon.com has them also.

They sell two versions which are identical except for frequency: one is 418 MHz and the other is 433 MHz. It probably won't matter which frequency you get unless you already have a UHF remote and want to avoid using the same frequency.
post #16155 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael1138 View Post

My parent's DTVPal DVR apparently locked up last night while recording. The unit was off at the time. They went to watch the show later, and nothing would come up. They only had a green light on the front of the unit. I told them how to reboot it, which resulted in the boot up screen, which then went to the downloading guide data screen. Once that finished, nothing but a black screen: no channels, no menus, no nothing. After three to five minutes, it would reboot on its own. I had them disconnect the antenna cable and reboot, which yielded the same results. They tried this numerous times.

I finally went over to their house to see if there was anything else I could try. When I got there, the tuner was actually working for one channel, but you couldn't change it or access any menus. So, I repeated the boot process, disconnecting the antenna cable, even tried hitting cancel during the guide download, which it did, but still nothing. The channel would sometimes come up when I rebooted.

I unplugged it when I left and told them I'd try powering it up again later today.

I can hear the drive and fan are still spinning. I checked through this thread and Page 1, and saw many lock up and reboot issues, but nothing resulting in not being able to access the menus.

It has the F208 firmware. We're in the Dallas market. TVGOS is gone. The unit had been working fine with PSIP data.

Any ideas or is it dead?

You can try reinstalling the firmware, but I don't think it'll let you reinstall the same version twice. I would plug in the thumb drive, then power up the Pal. Let us know if that does anything.

Another thing you can try is pressing "Sys Info" during/after a reboot. If this works you'll get the system info screen. Make sure your remote ID is correct (01 unless you've changed it). If not, follow the instructions on post 1 to change your remote ID. (Contrary to those instructions, though, you can use an ID of 01 unless you have another Dish device already using that ID.) If you can get that far, try pressing the menu button. If you can access the menu, do a factory defaults reset.

If none of that works, the only other thing I can think of is to disconnect the hard drive. You have to take it apart to do that, but if the drive's the problem, disconnecting it will let the Pal start normally (except the DVR functions will be disabled, of course). In that case you can just replace the drive and you should be back in business, although you'll lose any saved recordings of course.
post #16156 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

One interesting difference that I noted in the F201 firmware compared to the F208 firmware is that you can set the "start early" and "end late" times in F201 to a maximum of 60 minutes for each where the F208 only allows for a maximum 5-minute offset for each. I wonder what prompted the programmers to change the range of those user-adjustable settings. confused.gif

There must be a form of Murphy's Law which states that any "upgrade" will always include at least one "downgrade."
post #16157 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

You can try reinstalling the firmware, but I don't think it'll let you reinstall the same version twice. I would plug in the thumb drive, then power up the Pal. Let us know if that does anything.

Another thing you can try is pressing "Sys Info" during/after a reboot. If this works you'll get the system info screen. Make sure your remote ID is correct (01 unless you've changed it). If not, follow the instructions on post 1 to change your remote ID. (Contrary to those instructions, though, you can use an ID of 01 unless you have another Dish device already using that ID.) If you can get that far, try pressing the menu button. If you can access the menu, do a factory defaults reset.

If none of that works, the only other thing I can think of is to disconnect the hard drive. You have to take it apart to do that, but if the drive's the problem, disconnecting it will let the Pal start normally (except the DVR functions will be disabled, of course). In that case you can just replace the drive and you should be back in business, although you'll lose any saved recordings of course.

Thanks.smile.gif I tried pressing every button during and after the boot up, just nothing seemed to work. They actually have two remotes; neither had any different effect. I upgraded the drive in my CM-7000PAL, so I know what to expect if I have to go that far.

I have the 202, 206, and 207 update files. If the 208 update won't take, I can try the 207 and see if that at least lets me get it to a usable state.
post #16158 of 18096
Note to all-I just bought the DTVPal from AntennaLogic (minutes ago). Two days ago, the price was $269. This morning, the price was $279. Minutes ago (when I bought), it's now $289 +S/H. So, if you want one, don't hesitate. The prices are going up. Plus, if you don't use PayPal (I don't), the ordering page/pay area is somewhat confusing if trying to use a credit card. I called the owner at AntennaLogic, and he guided me through it. Apparently, I'm not the only one that has been confused by this. Four years ago, I bought a DTVPal from Sears when they were getting rid of them. Back then, the price was $125. I should have bought two then. Oh, well.
post #16159 of 18096
I've got an update regarding my two DTVPal DVRs that I did factory resets on yesterday after losing TVGOS. I set my F201 DVR's clock yesterday manually to the second using a radio-controlled clock as a reference. Today that DVR is 5 seconds fast. My F208 DVR was running 27 seconds slow yesterday after a factory reset. I did not set that clock manually and just let it be and today it is 17 seconds slow. So the bottom line is that these clocks in either firmware version will "wander" some without TVGOS as a solid reference.

The other thing that I noticed is that my F201 EPG is never totally filled in and I think it's because of a lack of memory allocated to it by the F201 firmware. I receive a total of 43 channels/sub-channels and I don't think there is enough memory in F201 to retain all of the PSIP data that is gathered. PSIP data that I had a minute ago for one channel disappears from the guide as I scroll through more channels. F208 must be doing something differently as my EPG on that DVR is fully populated with all 43 channels simultaneously. It is much more user-friendly than the EPG in F201. At this point it looks like I will be doing the update to F208 for the F201 DVR when I complete my comparisons/experiments.
post #16160 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael1138 View Post

.....I have the 202, 206, and 207 update files. If the 208 update won't take, I can try the 207 and see if that at least lets me get it to a usable state.

I don't think that will work. I had a phone conversation with someone "high up" in Dish technical support years ago when I was having MAJOR problems with their F206 firmware and was told that you cannot (as a consumer) roll back the firmware in the DTVPal DVR. He told me that it does a check prior to the install process and if the version that you are trying to install is the same or earlier than the one currently on the DVR, the installation process is ended. I would imagine that the factory/manufacturer would have the capability-equipment-tools-software to accomplish a firmware rollback or firmware re-install if they wanted to do it.
post #16161 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

Note to all-I just bought the DTVPal from AntennaLogic (minutes ago). Two days ago, the price was $269. This morning, the price was $279. Minutes ago (when I bought), it's now $289 +S/H. So, if you want one, don't hesitate. The prices are going up.....

It must be supply and demand. Their price on eBay also went up from $309 to $319.99.rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

.....Four years ago, I bought a DTVPal from Sears when they were getting rid of them. Back then, the price was $125. I should have bought two then. Oh, well.

At the very end Sears was blowing the very last ones out the door at $19.93 each. I happened to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to pick up a couple of spares for myself. smile.gif
post #16162 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

Note to all-I just bought the DTVPal from AntennaLogic (minutes ago). Two days ago, the price was $269. This morning, the price was $279. Minutes ago (when I bought), it's now $289 +S/H. So, if you want one, don't hesitate. The prices are going up.....

It must be supply and demand. Their price on eBay also went up from $309 to $319.99.rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

.....Four years ago, I bought a DTVPal from Sears when they were getting rid of them. Back then, the price was $125. I should have bought two then. Oh, well.

At the very end Sears was blowing the very last ones out the door at $19.93 each. I happened to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to pick up a couple of spares for myself. smile.gif
Wow, almost 20 bucks for new ones? Damn! :O Are you using all of them now? wink.gif

Are the prices going up because of this thread? [grin]
post #16163 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Wow, almost 20 bucks for new ones? Damn! :O Are you using all of them now? wink.gif.....

No I've still got those two spares brand-new in-the-box. One of my units is over 4 years old and one is approaching 4 years old so the spares will probably come in handy at some point for either replacement units or for parts. If nothing else I have a couple of brand-new genuine Dish DTVPal DVR remote controls on hand in case one of my remotes fails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

.....Are the prices going up because of this thread? [grin]

I would imagine that might be the case. Call it the "AVS Forum" effect!
post #16164 of 18096
Quote:
Quote:
.....Are the prices going up because of this thread? [grin]

I would imagine that might be the case. Call it the "AVS Forum" effect!
biggrin.gif
post #16165 of 18096
I have 3 DTVPals. I sometimes muse what might happen first. . .

Will the Pals fail and send me on a quest for a DVR replacement or will OTA broadcasting go the way of the dodo leaving still working Pals in reserve or will they both still be functioning when I'm no longer around . . .
post #16166 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

I have 3 DTVPals. I sometimes muse what might happen first. . .

Will the Pals fail and send me on a quest for a DVR replacement or will OTA broadcasting go the way of the dodo leaving still functioning Pals in reserve . . .
I hope OTA doesn't go away! frown.gif Our DVRs will probably die. Nothing electronics really last that long. OK, my VCR (from dotcom days) and 20" Sharp CRT TV (January 1996) are still kicking arses. :P
post #16167 of 18096
This may eventually kill off all the DVRs, converter boxes, TVs and anything else with an ATSC tuner. Hopefully the expense alone will make it a long way off.

A few excerpts from Broadcast Engineering:

"ATSC 3.0 expected by the end of March

"Finally, after 20 years, a new generation television transmission standard — ATSC 3.0 — is about to be unveiled. If all goes on schedule, a single candidate standard could be created by 2016...

The new standard is expected to be flexible, and incorporate a wide use of spectrum, mobile technologies, 4K, 3-D and multiscreen viewing on hybrid devices that can be located anywhere...

Version 3.0 is not expected to be backwards-compatible with current transmission systems, so it will be expensive to implement."
post #16168 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

This may eventually kill off all the DVRs, converter boxes, TVs and anything else with an ATSC tuner. Hopefully the expense alone will make it a long way off.

A few excerpts from Broadcast Engineering:

"ATSC 3.0 expected by the end of March

"Finally, after 20 years, a new generation television transmission standard — ATSC 3.0 — is about to be unveiled. If all goes on schedule, a single candidate standard could be created by 2016...

The new standard is expected to be flexible, and incorporate a wide use of spectrum, mobile technologies, 4K, 3-D and multiscreen viewing on hybrid devices that can be located anywhere...

Version 3.0 is not expected to be backwards-compatible with current transmission systems, so it will be expensive to implement."
Geez. Is there an online URL of this article?
post #16169 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Geez. Is there an online URL of this article?


http://broadcastengineering.com/standards/atsc-30-expected-end-march
post #16170 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Geez. Is there an online URL of this article?
just highlight the atsc 3.0 letter, click by right mouse button, select Google and read first PDF presentation
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