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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 542

post #16231 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Well...I never thought it would happen to me but one of my 2 PALDVRS just died. It was my first one. It is stuck in the booting up screen and is unresponive to the remote. Itried all the hints in post #1 to no avail. I guess these boxes do die at some point.

Help.....

Is it the dreaded reboot loop, where it shows "loading..." for a while, then shows "downloading guide info" with the thermometer bar, then starts all over again? I understand this is caused by corrupted timer data.

If you recently added a "once" timer, your Pal may start working again after the date of the timer has passed. But if the corrupted timer is a repeating one, P Smith's offer (to re-flash your memory) is probably your best bet. As for alternative DVRs, I feel your pain. The ones mentioned above or an HTPC are about it. There's also a Digital Stream DVR but it's not very good. It has two tuners, but can only record from one of them! The other is for live viewing only, and it doesn't even do "time shifting/trick play" (pausing/rewinding/etc. the live broadcast).

As for the others, judging from their threads the PHD-VRX is still somewhat buggy and has a clunky user interface (e.g., you have separate guides/programming schedules for each of the two tuners; a nightmare if you often record two shows at once). I keep following the thread in case the firmware improves with the next release, but they have further to go than the Pal did and the old-timers know how long that took.

The TViX 6620 doesn't seem too bad if you can live w/o Ion. You can see some discussion of other issues in the TViX thread, starting about here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1195962/official-dvico-tvix-m6620n-hd-atsc-qam-tuner-topic/1700_20#post_22699833

The CM-7400 is pretty good if you get the paid guide, but it has a poor tuner and is prone to overheat (you can reduce overheating by removing the internal drive and adding an external one, but you can't do much about the tuner beyond a good antenna and preamp). The Amulet solves the CM-7400 overheating issue, but doesn't offer the paid guide! Can't anyone get this right?

The TiVo Premiere gets it mostly right, but their pricing model is odd. The TiVo itself is really cheap, but the guide subscription is mandatory, expensive, and includes ads anyway. The firmware is on the hard drive, so it's a hassle to upgrade. And some are bothered by the way TiVo spies on your TV viewing habits.

All in all, surveying the competition does make one appreciate how good our Pals really are, even in spite of their bugs and quirks.
Edited by JHBrandt - 3/5/13 at 1:52pm
post #16232 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Last night, I noticed my future weekly Timers show one with "DST". That was cool. I have never seen that before with TVGOS. Has anyone noticed that?
Yes, and "STD" as the reverse change looms in November.  This is the first time I'll be going through it without TVGOS, but my clock is still grayed out, so WBBM might still be sending a time signal over TVGOS.
I assume STD means standard. I wonder why it doesn't use PST for my time zone. Oh, I might be using TVGOS as well even though I don't see TVGOS since the clocks appear to be atomic based. [shrugs]
post #16233 of 18096
Quote:
... All in all, surveying the competition does make one appreciate how good our Pals really are, even in spite of their bugs and quirks.
It sucks that OTA DVRs aren't popular hence Dish's and CM's DVRs aren't that popular. But then OTA isn't popular. frown.gif Did CES 2013 even have any new OTA DVRs? frown.gif
post #16234 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Yes, and "STD" as the reverse change looms in November.  This is the first time I'll be going through it without TVGOS, but my clock is still grayed out, so WBBM might still be sending a time signal over TVGOS.
Yep, mine's showing DST for Sunday's timers too - along with ridiculously wrong recording times. I'll have to delete & recreate them Sunday before they fire rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I assume STD means standard. I wonder why it doesn't use PST for my time zone.
But if it used PST for standard, to be consistent it'd have to use PDT for Daylight Saving. 'Twas probably simpler to just use the strings DST and STD, rather than writing time-zone dependent code
post #16235 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

Yes, you can buy new Pal DVR's-sort of. These are the CM-7000's which are exactly the same. These are new-old stock--never used. They have the last firmware available (the F208).

http://antennalogic.ecrater.com/p/17000550/dtvpal-dvr-w-cm-7000pal-remote

Close - actually these are described as Dish DTVPals upgraded to F208 firmware, but with CM-7000 Pal (black) remotes. Not that it matters. (The CM-7000 Pals have F400 firmware but it's virtually identical to F208.)

They're being sold by the same guy who's selling the Amulet DVRs (OEM CM-7400s). Posts on the Amulet thread suggest he's a baker who somehow got hold of a few pallets of DVRs and decided to start selling them on the side. The Dish DTVPals were bare units so I'm guessing he bought CM remotes (the only ones available) along with composite & HDMI cables (and made CDs with the manual) to ship with them.

A few posters here have bought these and he seems to be reputable and to know what he's doing, but if something does go wrong there's barely a warranty. I consider the Pals a better deal than the Amulets, but at $309 (yes, he's raised the price yet again) I'd still look for a used Pal on eBay first.
post #16236 of 18096
I did byte's compare between F4.00 and F2.08 and found difference in literals and some bits outside area with code.

I'm pretty sure the well known different behavior between DVRs of SAME model (it's the same between CM and Pal) related to side effect of the awkward using of flash memory - FW and user data interleaved to eliminate wearing out sectors of the flash chip. So any changes in EPG, channels, settings will force to rewrite more sectors then need. Usually (all satellite receivers) use separate chips and NVRAM for dynamic data and settings.
I don't want to point finger, but it was "invented" by British HW/SW guys from Eldon's division in UK of echostar.
post #16237 of 18096
Thanks for that info; that may partially explain why one of my two Pals can't seem to save more than 36 hours of KXAS's guide, even though the other one shows 5+ days. Also explains how corrupt timers can brick the whole DVR.

I certainly would've expected that things like the configuration settings, channel list, and timers would've been stored in NVRAM, not the firmware flash chip eek.gif

Another option E* could've considered: these boxes do have disk drives rolleyes.gif , which could've been used to store the EPG
post #16238 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Thanks for that info; that may partially explain why one of my two Pals can't seem to save more than 36 hours of KXAS's guide, even though the other one shows 5+ days. Also explains how corrupt timers can brick the whole DVR.

I certainly would've expected that things like the configuration settings, channel list, and timers would've been stored in NVRAM, not the firmware flash chip eek.gif

Another option E* could've considered: these boxes do have disk drives rolleyes.gif , which could've been used to store the EPG
Oh! Those Britts ! smile.gif They got eval boards without HDD, but decide to spend money for a pub's visit instead of buying drives. biggrin.gif
post #16239 of 18096
Bye the way I tis not just the PALDVR with messed up time. I check the time displayed on my Samsung not so smart TV and the few channels I checked were off an hour last nite. I did not bother to check every channel. Probably do that today. On the other hand I connected to the internet with the TV and got the ROVI guide which had the correct time. I guess the local NY market EPG was screwed up. I could not check with my lone remaining working PALDV as I took it apart to connect an external drive and waiting on and ESATA to SATA cable before I put it back together.
post #16240 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Bye the way I tis not just the PALDVR with messed up time...
Nice typos. wink.gif
post #16241 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Nice typos. wink.gif

All I can say is don't get old!
post #16242 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Nice typos. wink.gif

All I can say is don't get old!
I wished. Everything gets old including our DVRs (see, still on-topic).
post #16243 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Close - actually these are described as Dish DTVPals upgraded to F208 firmware, but with CM-7000 Pal (black) remotes. Not that it matters. (The CM-7000 Pals have F400 firmware but it's virtually identical to F208.)

They're being sold by the same guy who's selling the Amulet DVRs (OEM CM-7400s). Posts on the Amulet thread suggest he's a baker who somehow got hold of a few pallets of DVRs and decided to start selling them on the side. The Dish DTVPals were bare units so I'm guessing he bought CM remotes (the only ones available) along with composite & HDMI cables (and made CDs with the manual) to ship with them.

A few posters here have bought these and he seems to be reputable and to know what he's doing, but if something does go wrong there's barely a warranty. I consider the Pals a better deal than the Amulets, but at $309 (yes, he's raised the price yet again) I'd still look for a used Pal on eBay first.

You are quite right! I messed up my phrasing about the DVR manufacturer. And-the dealer--I was rather afraid to order from this guy after checking out his business online. But, after talking to him at length on the phone, I did order from him. I received my DVR last week-just as promised. No problem at all. Yes, he did manage to get a few pallets of these NOS/unused DVR's and started to sell them. The remotes he, obviously, had to buy separately. And, yes, he "burned" his own CD's with a PDF file on them that has the instruction book. My DVR works perfectly. I bought another PAL three years ago and this one is exactly the same. I wanted this new one to use in another room. Plus, it can be a replacement if my original one ever dies.

He's been inching up the price on these one or twice a week for the last few weeks. Originally, he was asking $269. As you have stated, they are now $309. When I talked to the dealer, he said he was having a LOT of orders for these. So, he's charging what the market will bear, it appears. In any case, I'm glad I bought this second unit. So, if you want one, get one before his stock runs out.
post #16244 of 18096
Quote:
You are quite right! I messed up my phrasing about the DVR manufacturer. And-the dealer--I was rather afraid to order from this guy after checking out his business online. But, after talking to him at length on the phone, I did order from him. I received my DVR last week-just as promised. No problem at all. Yes, he did manage to get a few pallets of these NOS/unused DVR's and started to sell them. The remotes he, obviously, had to buy separately. And, yes, he "burned" his own CD's with a PDF file on them that has the instruction book. My DVR works perfectly. I bought another PAL three years ago and this one is exactly the same. I wanted this new one to use in another room. Plus, it can be a replacement if my original one ever dies.

He's been inching up the price on these one or twice a week for the last few weeks. Originally, he was asking $269. As you have stated, they are now $309. When I talked to the dealer, he said he was having a LOT of orders for these. So, he's charging what the market will bear, it appears. In any case, I'm glad I bought this second unit. So, if you want one, get one before his stock runs out.
Heh. I guess he is getting a lot of buyers from this forum thread. wink.gif
post #16245 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post

You are quite right! I messed up my phrasing about the DVR manufacturer. And-the dealer--I was rather afraid to order from this guy after checking out his business online. But, after talking to him at length on the phone, I did order from him. I received my DVR last week-just as promised. No problem at all. Yes, he did manage to get a few pallets of these NOS/unused DVR's and started to sell them. The remotes he, obviously, had to buy separately. And, yes, he "burned" his own CD's with a PDF file on them that has the instruction book. My DVR works perfectly. I bought another PAL three years ago and this one is exactly the same. I wanted this new one to use in another room. Plus, it can be a replacement if my original one ever dies.

He's been inching up the price on these one or twice a week for the last few weeks. Originally, he was asking $269. As you have stated, they are now $309. When I talked to the dealer, he said he was having a LOT of orders for these. So, he's charging what the market will bear, it appears. In any case, I'm glad I bought this second unit. So, if you want one, get one before his stock runs out.

I think you got a product with NO support. He only offers a 30 day warranty. The company who makes these does not sell retail or provide any support. If you have a problem you are out of luck. Hopefull the unit you purchased gives you many years of service.There is a thread on the AVS forum if you search with more info on these units and the thoughts about the company selling them. Caveat emptor.
post #16246 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

I think you got a product with NO support. He only offers a 30 day warranty. The company who makes these does not sell retail or provide any support. If you have a problem you are out of luck. Hopefull the unit you purchased gives you many years of service.There is a thread on the AVS forum if you search with more info on these units and the thoughts about the company selling them. Caveat emptor.

When faced with buying a used one listed on Ebay, this seemed to be a better choice. They are supposedly new units. I've been happy with my purchase so far.
post #16247 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

I think you got a product with NO support. He only offers a 30 day warranty. The company who makes these does not sell retail or provide any support. If you have a problem you are out of luck. Hopefully the unit you purchased gives you many years of service. There is a thread on the AVS forum if you search with more info on these units and the thoughts about the company selling them. Caveat emptor.

That would be this thread. Paul bought a DTVPal, not an Amulet. The AntennaLogic guy is selling both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul210 View Post

When faced with buying a used one listed on Ebay, this seemed to be a better choice. They are supposedly new units. I've been happy with my purchase so far.

Support for any Pal nowadays is essentially limited to this forum, but there's still an advantage to buying a never-used one. P Smith has disclosed that the Pals store timers and other data in the firmware flash ROM, and those chips don't last forever. And of course, an end-user can't re-flash their Pal if the firmware gets corrupted.

If it weren't for that ill-advised design choice, a Pal with the HDD mounted externally could outlive all of us, or at least as long as replacement 1TB HDDs can be bought....
post #16248 of 18096
The Antenna Logic seller has raised the price on the DTVPal DVR from $269 to $309. And apparently he now has new in the box Channel Master branded versions for $409, although he may only have one remaining. And interesting also, he is selling the original CM-7777 dual input preamp for $99. Looks like he has bought extra remaining inventory from Echostar and Channel Master suppliers. But a good find for those interested in these hard to find products. And he also has the Entone version of the CM-7400 DVR with an added fan to prevent overheating. But a bit pricey at $379 with no guarantee of a better tuner. The DTVPal he still has available is a better functioning choice, but was a better deal when priced at $269.
post #16249 of 18096
He also offers a new CM-7400 for only $450.
His shipping to my neck of the woods was a bit pricey at $16.
post #16250 of 18096
I have 2 of these units that I bought a little over 3 years ago from Sears for about $300 each. They are worth every penny! I bought one from the antennalogic guy on Ebay before learning that he was selling them cheaper from his own website. It arrived within just a few days. I bought a 3 year squaretrade warranty. When I went to squaretrade they automatically recognized the purchase from Ebay. They won't be able to fix it if it breaks, but at least I'll get my purchase price back.
post #16251 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

The Antenna Logic seller has raised the price on the DTVPal DVR from $269 to $309. And apparently he now has new in the box Channel Master branded versions for $409, although he may only have one remaining. And interesting also, he is selling the original CM-7777 dual input preamp for $99. Looks like he has bought extra remaining inventory from Echostar and Channel Master suppliers. But a good find for those interested in these hard to find products. And he also has the Entone version of the CM-7400 DVR with an added fan to prevent overheating. But a bit pricey at $379 with no guarantee of a better tuner. The DTVPal he still has available is a better functioning choice, but was a better deal when priced at $269.

Why is the DTVPal $309 while the CM-7000Pal is $409? That makes no sense. Unless the 7000Pal has an upgraded HDD or carries the CM 1-year warranty (not worth $100 IMO), they're identical.

OT: dual input CM-7777s are indeed hard to find nowadays. When mine failed, it was a real hassle to find a suitable replacement. Luckily I didn't need the dual inputs. I considered the new version of the CM-7777 but the gain was too high for a suburban environment and CM no longer guaranteed a low noise figure. I ended up replacing it with a KitzTech 100 for $50, an HLSJ (to replace the FM trap) for $3, and 25' of RG6 cable (because the KitzTech couldn't go on the roof like the CM-7777). To me, $99 plus (his high) shipping still seems a bit pricey, but they may be worth that to some.
post #16252 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

I think you got a product with NO support. He only offers a 30 day warranty. The company who makes these does not sell retail or provide any support. If you have a problem you are out of luck. Hopefull the unit you purchased gives you many years of service.There is a thread on the AVS forum if you search with more info on these units and the thoughts about the company selling them. Caveat emptor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anant View Post

I have 2 of these units that I bought a little over 3 years ago from Sears for about $300 each. They are worth every penny! I bought one from the antennalogic guy on Ebay before learning that he was selling them cheaper from his own website. It arrived within just a few days. I bought a 3 year squaretrade warranty. When I went to squaretrade they automatically recognized the purchase from Ebay. They won't be able to fix it if it breaks, but at least I'll get my purchase price back.

I also recommend Square Trade. Anyone who bought a new one with even a short warranty can buy a warranty from Square Trade within 30 days, and it will start protecting your purchase when the original warranty is over. Used ones bought on ebay can be warrantied without an original warranty existing, but it doesn't cover anything til later, I think it's 45 days. Since no one can repair them, you would get your money back when you ship the broken one to them. I had to do it a few years ago with a CM, and even got a bonus for taking the money as Amazon credit. If you sign up for ST emails, they will email you a discount code every week, usually at least 20%..
post #16253 of 18096
What do the square trade warranties cost?
post #16254 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

What do the square trade warranties cost?

Depends. If you can get 2 yr coverage, the 2nd year is half price of the 1st. You can see a free quote on their home page without having to create an account. If you bought from ebay, you just put in your item number and it finds it that way, otherwise you have to input the category, which is Misc Electronics if they haven't changed it, and then put in your price minus any shipping cost, which they don't cover. Don't buy it without a code discount, like I said they are easy to get.
post #16255 of 18096
Thanks. Used an item number from the seller's feedback. $53.99 for the 3-year coverage.
post #16256 of 18096
TVGOS is gone:mad:.

Rovi is shutting down its OTA TV guide service without notice
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/rovi-gemstar-tv-quide-ota-shutdown/

Go to Rovi's facebook page and complain.
https://www.facebook.com/RoviCorp?filter=2
post #16257 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ VIKING View Post

TVGOS is gone:mad:.

Rovi is shutting down its OTA TV guide service without notice
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/rovi-gemstar-tv-quide-ota-shutdown/

Go to Rovi's facebook page and complain.
https://www.facebook.com/RoviCorp?filter=2

Hello - you just violated one rule of new forum - not reading the recent history. This subject has been beat to death. And contacting ROvi will do absolutely zero good.
post #16258 of 18096
Checked my PALDVR this AM and the time was spot on.

on another matter I changed the DVR to use an external drive using the Rosewill 358 V2 enclosure. Only problem is the drive will spin down if the PALDVR goes into standbye. If the drive spins down the PALDVR gets hung. SO I turned off the standbye feature of the PALDVR. Is there an issue doing this?
post #16259 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ VIKING View Post

TVGOS is gone:mad:.

Rovi is shutting down its OTA TV guide service without notice
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/rovi-gemstar-tv-quide-ota-shutdown/

Go to Rovi's facebook page and complain.
https://www.facebook.com/RoviCorp?filter=2

Where were you 4-5 months ago when they announced no more OTA TV guide? You might have been the one that saved it! smile.gif
post #16260 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Checked my PALDVR this AM and the time was spot on.

on another matter I changed the DVR to use an external drive using the Rosewill 358 V2 enclosure. Only problem is the drive will spin down if the PALDVR goes into standbye. If the drive spins down the PALDVR gets hung. SO I turned off the standbye feature of the PALDVR. Is there an issue doing this?

My time was not reset. Did a soft reboot, no change. Did a hard reboot and a factory reset. Time is off 1 hour, no daylight saving time and programs are 2 hours behind. Guess I'll have to wait until Monday so the engineers can all wake up and reset their equipment. Seem to remember similar problems when TVGOS was broken at local cbs and had to use PSIP for awhile.
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