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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 544

post #16291 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Living without TVGOS now, I'm noticing two odd things in the guide: first, if I skip ahead well within the station's PSIP guide info, sometimes I'll still get the one-hour blocks of "No Information Available", but if I go back to the start of the guide and move forward show by show (sometimes, safely, screen by screen), the same time slot has guide info.

Another is that I'll move to a show's slot on the guide grid and a synopsis will appear for an instant in the upper part of the screen, only to revert to "No Information Available" (not for the program name, only for the synopsis) too soon for me to have read it. Pressing the Info key doesn't help: the synopsis screen is still "no information available."
If you wait a few seconds the info will usually fill back in.
post #16292 of 18096
JH,

The original PALDVR 250 GB drives are in my PCs.

The drives that both PALDVRS have in them including the PALDVR that died are 1 TB Western Digital drives. I just pulled the one and put it in the enclosure so it may have come shipped with the ability to spin down as I think they were both "green" caviar drives.

Yes, I did buy the EPIDVR PHD-VRX

Yes....I will order the enclosure that you purchased and see if that does the trick.
post #16293 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Living without TVGOS now, I'm noticing two odd things in the guide: first, if I skip ahead well within the station's PSIP guide info, sometimes I'll still get the one-hour blocks of "No Information Available", but if I go back to the start of the guide and move forward show by show (sometimes, safely, screen by screen), the same time slot has guide info.

Another is that I'll move to a show's slot on the guide grid and a synopsis will appear for an instant in the upper part of the screen, only to revert to "No Information Available" (not for the program name, only for the synopsis) too soon for me to have read it. Pressing the Info key doesn't help: the synopsis screen is still "no information available."

Yes, the DTVPal can have a split personality, and sometimes can't decide whether to show you the information it has stored or not. After TVGOS was gone, I was constantly seeing the behavior you describe. After several weeks I did a factory defaults, and I don't think I have seen the issue since.
post #16294 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

JH,

The original PALDVR 250 GB drives are in my PCs.

The drives that both PALDVRS have in them including the PALDVR that died are 1 TB Western Digital drives. I just pulled the one and put it in the enclosure so it may have come shipped with the ability to spin down as I think they were both "green" caviar drives.

Yes, I did buy the EPIDVR PHD-VRX

Yes....I will order the enclosure that you purchased and see if that does the trick.

OK, thanks for clarifying. My DTVPal is on top of an old CRT TV where it's subject to being jumped on by cats, so it's Velcroed to the TV within an inch of its life. I have an internal drive (1 TB) in that one. My CM-7000Pal is in a safer location so I have a 750 GB external drive for it. Both are WD Green drives.

I also put one of my old 250 GB drives in my PC. So I don't have your exact config but it's pretty close!

How do you feel the PHD-VRX compares to the DTVPal? From what I've seen, the Pal is better as a straight DVR, but the PHD-VRX has some other nice features, such as YouTube access.

BTW I think you'll be able to move the Rosewill enclosure between the PC and the PHD-VRX (although if you're running Windows I think you'll need a driver for the Linux filesystem).
post #16295 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

OK, thanks for clarifying. My DTVPal is on top of an old CRT TV where it's subject to being jumped on by cats, so I have an internal drive (1 TB) in that one. For my CM-7000Pal I have a 750 GB external drive. Both are WD Green drives.

I also put one of my old 250 GB drives in my PC. So I don't have your exact config but it's pretty close!

How do you feel the PHD-VRX compares to the DTVPal? From what I've seen, the Pal is better as a straight DVR, but the PHD-VRX has some other nice features, such as YouTube access. *

BTW I think you'll be able to move the Rosewill enclosure between the PC and the PHD-VRX (although if you're running Windows I think you'll need a driver for the Linux filesystem).*
* - answer to that would be dragging off-topic (the device has own thread here)
post #16296 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

After several weeks I did a factory defaults, and I don't think I have seen the issue since.
I've been trying to avoid that so as not to have to reenter my timers (reentering my preferences is no big deal, as there are only a couple that differ from the defaults), but maybe it's time to do the factory reset.
post #16297 of 18096
Why would a comparison between the Pal and another DVR be more off-topic in this thread than in the other DVR's thread? Seems equally relevant to both.
post #16298 of 18096
I would compare info from both threads as each one has much more then partial cross re-posting ... perhaps URL to that thread/page/post would be sufficient with relevant part.
post #16299 of 18096
I'll try to keep it to a minimum but as the owner of both I might stray off topic a bit now and then. I know I can count on you to keep me on the straight and narrow.

As an aside so far using my external enclosure is working fine. Even with the PALDVR always on it is running cooler. When the Vantec enclosure arrives I will switch over to it and see if I can then let the PALDVR go into standby mode which will keep it weven cooler. If that does not work then I will be using HDPARM to adjust the drive settings so they will not spin down.

There is one issue with leaving the PALDVR on that was mentioned... the guide data has to be brought in from scratch by navigating each channel.
post #16300 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

smile.gif...

There is one issue with leaving the PALDVR on that was mentioned... the guide data has to be brought in from scratch by navigating each channel.
It would be interesting to find if second tuner is busy, or both - then EPG outage would be described. Or perhaps yor station's signals vary and preventing to gather PSIP data ...
post #16301 of 18096
Don't know if there is a way for me to determine what info you seek. I believe you also have an external drive setup? You could leave your PALDVR on and and see for yourself?
post #16302 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

It takes two soft resets. One by itself won't do it.

I just did the two back-to-back soft resets to get re-synced with the "weighted mean" of PSIP times in my area. It's running 10 seconds slow but I can live with that if it remains relatively consistent. Gaining 8 seconds/day when using the DTVPal DVR's internal clock wasn't consistent/accurate enough for me.
post #16303 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Don't know if there is a way for me to determine what info you seek. I believe you also have an external drive setup? You could leave your PALDVR on and and see for yourself?
It's working OK while it's running on or off) , what I'm mostly doing to answer to some questions here. Usually, it's has no power to educe carbon print. smile.gif
I did post my observation about "no info" EPG slots - mine is doing the same as Mark posted again; also if a station has low signal level [SNR] then EPG will not be populated for the station's channels.
post #16304 of 18096
I guess supply-and-demand economics really does work. Antennalogic has raised the price of the DTVPal DVR on their own website to $329.99 and to $369.99 on eBay! eek.gif
post #16305 of 18096
Yes but it only seems to be working in the upward direction. Entone DVR still at $379.00 eek.gif

He's also raised the price on the CM-7000 Pal to $439.99. The premium for the CM brand of the DTVPal is now $110 eek.gif
post #16306 of 18096
give him more publicity here and he will double the price frown.gif
post #16307 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I guess supply-and-demand economics really does work. Antennalogic has raised the price of the DTVPal DVR on their own website to $329.99 and to $369.99 on eBay! eek.gif
So he has gone up $100. When priced at $269 that was a decent deal; now with a renewed demand he is getting a bit pricey. Oh well. Maybe if sales level off, he will go back down again.
post #16308 of 18096
I did the factory-defaults reset, using my real zip, and the clock is no longer grayed out; it is nonetheless correct to within one minute, and that's good enough for my purposes.

Of course, I forgot that the reset would mean having to repeat the gyrations to trick the unit so that the WLS signal for the channel that will keep broadcasting would be the unit's virtual 7 and the one that is ending next week would be the unit's virtual 70.  That was wearying.
post #16309 of 18096
Gee - I think I might have just waited a week before doing the FDR. (We had a similar simulcast issue with our CBS station in DFW, but ours stopped the simulcast last November and kept TVGoS until last month; so by the time I had to do the FDR, the simulcast was no longer a problem.)

BTW, I confirmed that the "delete CBS/reboot/add CBS back" trick works to unlock the clock from TVGoS, but only after the CBS station has removed its TVGoS equipment.
post #16310 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


BTW, I confirmed that the "delete CBS/reboot/add CBS back" trick works to unlock the clock from TVGoS, but only after the CBS station has removed its TVGoS equipment.



Has KTVT stopped sending the TVG clock signal? My clock is still 5 sec slow compared to my radio controlled clock on the wall, just like it's always been with full TVG. I have not tried to unlock the Pal from the TVG clock signal yet, still grayed out. I figure as long as it's working and within 5 seconds I won't mess with it.
Edited by ed_in_tx - 3/13/13 at 7:50am
post #16311 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Gee - I think I might have just waited a week before doing the FDR.
Yes, that's exactly my point: I should have waited until next week, but I didn't think about that factor and remembered it only afterward.

My deeper disapointment with it has nothing to do with how the DVR handles the two signals while both exist: the one that will remain in operation comes in unreliably, while the one that comes in far more reliably will go dark.
post #16312 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Has KTVT stopped sending the TVG clock signal? My clock is still 5 sec slow compared to my radio controlled clock on the wall, just like it's always been with full TVG. I have not tried to unlock the Pal from the TVG clock signal yet, still grayed out. I figure as long as it's working and within 5 seconds I won't mess with it.

I think so, although I haven't heard anyone confirm this (with, say, TSReader).

Right after the TVGoS data ran out, I tried the trick on my CM-7000 Pal, and the clock just locked back up. Mabuttra explained that once the Pal saves some piece of info from a particular TVGoS packet, it will continue to decode TVGoS time packets if they're being sent, and re-lock the clock. The only practical way to erase that info is an FDR, which I did on the CM-7000 Pal. But I left the DTVPal alone.

But last Sunday I tried the trick on my DTVPal, and the clock didn't lock back up. Based on what I'd learned earlier, I concluded that KTVT must not be sending TVGoS time any longer.

But interestingly, the DTVPal made the DST transition OK. (I had to delete and redo my timers but that happens every year.) It's possible that KTVT disconnected the equipment Sunday right after the DST transition, but it's also possible that they disconnected it earlier and the DTVPal had switched to PSIP time, even though it never unlocked the clock. Since your clock isn't drifting, the second possibility seems more likely.
post #16313 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

For future guide that have "Information Not Available", is there a way to show and record for 30 minutes instead of an hour? Thank you in advance. smile.gif

There are several ways to skin this cat as long as all you want is a naked cat.

You can find a program on another channel in the same time slot and then edit the event to change the channel.

Just click on a 30 minute program somewhere and then edit away. My experience is that you can change channel, time and duration with no problem.

As discussed elsewhere you can just edit the one hour event but I have found this to be tricky because often it sees it as a conflicting event instead of an edit/replacement.

Just create a manual timer.
post #16314 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

My deeper disapointment with it has nothing to do with how the DVR handles the two signals while both exist: the one that will remain in operation comes in unreliably, while the one that comes in far more reliably will go dark.

In DFW, on 6/12/2009 KTVT went back to their old analog frequency, RF 11, from their pre-transition digital assignment of RF 19. But VHF reception was so bad they quickly got permission from the FCC to move back to RF 19. They simulcasted on VHF and UHF until last November, when they finally stopped the VHF transmission for good.

Did your area have a similar experience?
post #16315 of 18096
dattier: "...the one that will remain in operation comes in unreliably, while the one that comes in far more reliably will go dark..."

In my Southern California area, the PSIP guide functions better than the combined TVGOS & PSIP guide did previously. The ONLY drawback I have found is that the averaged PSIP clock in my area is ~18 seconds fast/early, which makes the Event Timer 'Recording' program label name the previous program and cuts off the end of the 'Next Weeks Episode' preview. My fix for this clock/program label issue is to set the program start time 1 min. later with the same run time/period. The only 'side effect' to this fix is that an additional red record dot shows up on the next guide program time slot - when I see this I have to remember that this dot is only active during the first minute of the guide/program and NOT a old timer that needs to be removed. This problem would not exist if the ~18 second clock error was slow/late instead of fast/early. For those that choose to use this 'fix', remember to delete the existing timers and re-set the timers for that evening "Latest to Earliest", otherwise the new delayed timers will not be accepted.

Donald1800
Edited by Donald1800 - 3/13/13 at 4:15pm
post #16316 of 18096
Last night I noticed my CM-7000 Pal's clock was a bit over 2 minutes fast. It had probably been "drifting" since I did the FDR to unlock it from TVGoS. The "double reboot" discovered by mabuttra fixed it. The clock was still wrong after the first reboot but correct after the second.

It does make one wonder, though: why does it take two reboots? What does the first reboot do that makes the second reboot resync the clock?

Probably one of those mysteries we'll never know the answer to. Just accept that somehow, it works.
post #16317 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Last night I noticed my CM-7000 Pal's clock was a bit over 2 minutes fast. It had probably been "drifting" since I did the FDR to unlock it from TVGoS. The "double reboot" discovered by mabuttra fixed it. The clock was still wrong after the first reboot but correct after the second.

It does make one wonder, though: why does it take two reboots? What does the first reboot do that makes the second reboot resync the clock?

Probably one of those mysteries we'll never know the answer to. Just accept that somehow, it works.

I also did the double back-to-back soft reboots that mabuttra posted about and both of my F208 DVRs' clocks are now quite accurate. Yesterday they were both within 2 seconds of my radio-controlled clock. When I was setting the clocks totally manually I was getting a drift of 8 seconds fast per day. After a week I would be off by almost a full minute!

One question I have is if you have to do the double soft reboots again if you have a power failure (even for a few seconds) in order to remain synced up with the PSIP times. confused.gif I've got my main DTVPal DVR on a UPS so it won't be an issue with that one but my other DTVPal DVR is only on a surge protector.
post #16318 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

When I was setting the clocks totally manually I was getting a drift of 8 seconds fast per day. After a week I would be off by almost a full minute!

One question I have is if you have to do the double soft reboots again if you have a power failure (even for a few seconds) in order to remain synced up with the PSIP times. confused.gif I've got my main DTVPal DVR on a UPS so it won't be an issue with that one but my other DTVPal DVR is only on a surge protector.

Multiple users have reported the identical drift of 8 sec/day, or 1 sec every 3 hours, for an unsynchronized Pal clock. It sounds like the internal clock is very precise but not very accurately calibrated - it's always fast by just about .01%. Probably another firmware bug rolleyes.gif

Your second question is a good one. I'd guess that once clock is synced to PSIP, it stays synced through additional reboots, including reboots caused by power failures; the only way to make it drift again would be to set it manually (or remove TVGoS if it was synced to that, which is what happened to most of us). But this box has fooled me before, so I may give it a try (cycle the power and see if the clock starts drifting again).
post #16319 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Multiple users have reported the identical drift of 8 sec/day, or 1 sec every 3 hours, for an unsynchronized Pal clock. It sounds like the internal clock is very precise but not very accurately calibrated - it's always fast by just about .01%. Probably another firmware bug rolleyes.gif

No. Just hardware.

8 seconds day per day works out to a bit less than 100ppm. Which is a not uncommon accuracy specification for your run of the mill quartz crystals. While you might expect more variation in the +/-100ppm range, I wouldn't. One thing that could happen is that after manufacturing a batch of crystals the manufacturer will run a test on accuracy. Typically a bunch will get pulled out and thrown in the +/-20ppm bin or other more precise bins. So instead of a nice uniform (or normal) distribution over +/-100ppm, there is a big hole in the middle.
post #16320 of 18096
Personally I think the clock running 8 seconds fast per day sux.
8 seconds per month would be much more reasonable.
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