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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 549

post #16441 of 18096
JHBrandt:

"...It missed a 5-star rating mainly because of a frustrating quirk in the learning function..."

My thorough test/use of all of the programming/learning functions of the 20.1IR remote did not turn up any "quirks", but I did uncover a frustrating undocumented side effect of adding learned functions to a coded equipment function set - see my post #16420 above. Since I do not consider this a 'quirk', but an undocumented result of modifying a coded function set, I would rate it 5 Stars. The fault was with the manual writers, NOT the remote or remote designers.

Donald1800
post #16442 of 18096
I fired up a new DTVPAL (antennalogic) a couple of weeks ago in a non TVGOS environment. The calculated time was within 20 seconds. By this Monday the error exceeded one minute. I tried Mark's "double warm boot" procedure. Now the error is about 2 seconds,

On the diagnostic screen at the bottom are several local times. They can be different and are calculated based on different "states"
post #16443 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

JHBrandt:

"...It missed a 5-star rating mainly because of a frustrating quirk in the learning function..."

My thorough test/use of all of the programming/learning functions of the 20.1IR remote did not turn up any "quirks", but I did uncover a frustrating undocumented side effect of adding learned functions to a coded equipment function set - see my post #16420 above. Since I do not consider this a 'quirk', but an undocumented result of modifying a coded function set, I would rate it 5 Stars. The fault was with the manual writers, NOT the remote or remote designers.

Donald1800

Check my review for the details, but in brief you must teach this remote every function to be "learned" for a given device in one sitting. If you re-enter the learning mode, it erases all previously learned functions for that device, so you have to teach it every function for that device all over again.

Other learning remotes let you teach them additional functions incrementally. I consider that an important feature. I shouldn't have to repeat an entire 30-button learning procedure if I just want to change the function of a few buttons.

That said, I still think it's a great remote (and at $6, it was an outstanding value).
Edited by JHBrandt - 3/27/13 at 11:18am
post #16444 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Thanks. I am surprised, but the DTVPal DVR ... is designed around the STMicroelectronics STi7109.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

[The DTVPal CECB's CPU i]s STi7707, see kev4321 pictures

Close but no cigar. Missed it by that much!

Edit: Removed non-working link from first quote above.
Edited by JHBrandt - 3/27/13 at 11:20am
post #16445 of 18096
time to stop smoking biggrin.gif
post #16446 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

time to stop smoking biggrin.gif
And stop watching Get Smart. wink.gif
post #16447 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

And stop watching Get Smart. wink.gif

Never. It's arguably the funniest, cleverest sitcom ever made. cool.gif
Yep unlike that movie in 2008. Ugh. I should record all of those old episodes onto my DVR (trying to stay on topic). :P
post #16448 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

.....That said, I still think it's a great remote (and at $6, it was an outstanding value).

For those who may have missed out on the $6 remote sale, it looks like they extended it. The eBay listing now says "sale ends in 4 days."
post #16449 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell_ View Post


It's still available and I just "bumped" the post. To be honest I got 0 inquiries. Feel free to let me know (by pm if you think posting a response here will violate any guidelines) if my pricing is bad - don't mince words.

I just checked it and I think the $219 you're asking is reasonable for a used, working Pal. Unfortunately I'm not in the market and LuvMyDVR33 is looking for a non-working unit (to salvage the CPU from), but I'd think someone around here would be interested confused.gif
post #16450 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

out of the box
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Do these remotes have to be programmed for the Pal DVR, or do they work right out of the box?

OK got one a 20.1. How do I operate CC with the "OOTB" setup? It doesn't seem to let me program a key in the SAT mode.

BTW I bought a 2-pack with a 21.1 and 20.1, the 21.1 to use with the Vip722 Dish receiver. It's original 21.0 was getting really intermittent. Both together were $18 shipped.
Edited by ed_in_tx - 3/27/13 at 5:03pm
post #16451 of 18096
On the 20.1 remote, the Swap button (bottom left) works CC
while the Position button (2 buttons right of Swap) works SAP.
post #16452 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

On the 20.1 remote, the Swap button (bottom left) works CC
while the Position button (2 buttons right of Swap) works SAP.
posted week ago http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/16320#post_23103381
post #16453 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I just checked it and I think the $219 you're asking is reasonable for a used, working Pal. Unfortunately I'm not in the market and LuvMyDVR33 is looking for a non-working unit (to salvage the CPU from), but I'd think someone around here would be interested confused.gif

Just wanted to add that if I WAS looking for another working one, I would be happy to pay $219. I wish this offer had been around at the time I paid $301 (includes shipping) for the last used one I bought from ebay. I know when you list there you have to charge more because ebay takes out way too much in fees. :-(
post #16454 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

On the 20.1 remote, the Swap button (bottom left) works CC
while the Position button (2 buttons right of Swap) works SAP.

Much thanks!
post #16455 of 18096
While looking into FW image, I found a lot of strings about support of VOIP via USB ...

Perhaps the DVR [connecting to Internet] could support "USB VOIP Yealink" phone ? Anyone have it to test?

Also, it seems the DVR has support of HomePlug (AX8817x USB to Fast Ethernet/HomePNA/HomePlug Controller), USB Mouse/Keyboard/Printer and FTDI/PL2303 USB-Serial adapters.
Edited by P Smith - 3/27/13 at 7:03pm
post #16456 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

On the 20.1 remote, the Swap button (bottom left) works CC
while the Position button (2 buttons right of Swap) works SAP.

Much thanks!

Also, as you probably guessed the PIP button is Sys Info when controlling the Pal.

Caution: If you have two Dish devices with different remote addresses, pressing the PIP/Sys Info button will wake up the Pal and make it show System Information even if the remote is controlling the other Dish device. My old satellite receiver doesn't respond to PIP/Sys Info, but the Pal does. (Pressing the Skip Back button will make the satellite receiver bring up system diagnostics, though) rolleyes.gif
post #16457 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Also, as you probably guessed the PIP button is Sys Info when controlling the Pal.

Caution: If you have two Dish devices with different remote addresses, pressing the PIP/Sys Info button will wake up the Pal and make it show System Information even if the remote is controlling the other Dish device. My old satellite receiver doesn't respond to PIP/Sys Info, but the Pal does. (Pressing the Skip Back button will make the satellite receiver bring up system diagnostics, though) rolleyes.gif

Trying to reproduce that. I have the 722 sat receiver 21.1 remote set to RF, and the 20.1 set up for the DTVPal doesn't seem to bring up any Info screen on the sat receiver when it does with the Pal.

One thing I noticed with both my new .1 remotes, I had to manually program the Page up-down keys to control the Sony TV's menu selection. The old original 20.0, 21.0, and the Pal' s 5.3 remotes had at least one Sony code that had those functions already. I tried them all.
post #16458 of 18096
Since you're using an RF remote to control the satellite and an IR remote to control the Pal, there should be no "cross-talk" between them. But I use one IR remote to control both boxes. On the Pal remote, the 'Pal' button was programmed to address 2 (my Pal DVR) and 'Aux' to address 1 (my satellite receiver).

When I replaced it with the 20.1, I reversed the assignments to better match the buttons' labels: the 'Sat' button is programmed to address 1 and 'Aux' to address 2. But both exhibit the same behavior: if I select the satellite, then press Sys Info, the Pal turns on; and if I switch my TV to the Pal's input, I see the Pal's Sys Info screen.

I think the Pal's designers did this on purpose; if you somehow get your Pal and remote set to different addresses, you can use Sys Info to get them back in sync since the Pal will always respond to it.

I suspect my satellite receiver doesn't react to Sys Info due to its age. Your satellite receiver is newer than mine so it may react normally to PIP/Sys Info (rather than, say, Skip Back). I suspect Dish has moved a few less-used remote codes around over the years.


I had a similar problem with the arrow keys controlling my TV. My Pal remote programmed them correctly, but I had to "teach" the 20.1 how to move the cursor in TV mode.
post #16459 of 18096
Did the double reboot today to unlock the clock from TVG for good. First time was almost 2 min fast! So I manually set the Pal's clock to the second, to a radio controlled wall clock. I hope it settles down to a better average time. Does the 'Pal have to be "Off" in its standby mode to search channels and average the time?
post #16460 of 18096
Greetings,
My DTVPal seems to be losing its mind. Even though I don't get the ROVI TVGOS anymore, I do get some programming data for the current day. I have noticed that even though a program in the Guide had been selected to be recorded, I would check after the program should have started but the program actually was not being recorded. However, the little red recording dot did appear when I went to that channel and the Guide. However, when I looked at the My Recordings list, it was not showing up. I then deleted selected program that was scheduled to be recorded in the Guide, and re-started recording of that program manually. The program then started to record. Is there any 'fix' for this?
Thanks...
Gary
post #16461 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Did the double reboot today to unlock the clock from TVG for good. First time was almost 2 min fast! So I manually set the Pal's clock to the second, to a radio controlled wall clock. I hope it settles down to a better average time. Does the 'Pal have to be "Off" in its standby mode to search channels and average the time?

When you set the clock manually it overrides the PSIP averaging, so you are back to drifting 8 seconds a day. I would do the double reboot again, and then give it a couple of days to settle down before deciding whether the PSIP clock is good or bad.
post #16462 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

When you set the clock manually it overrides the PSIP averaging, so you are back to drifting 8 seconds a day. I would do the double reboot again, and then give it a couple of days to settle down before deciding whether the PSIP clock is good or bad.

Thanks will do. Does it have to be "off" to do the time averaging? Often mine stays on full time.

EDIT: First time display after this double reset - 1 min 15 sec fast.
Edited by ed_in_tx - 3/28/13 at 9:52am
post #16463 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by goddi1 View Post

Greetings,
My DTVPal seems to be losing its mind. Even though I don't get the ROVI TVGOS anymore, I do get some programming data for the current day. I have noticed that even though a program in the Guide had been selected to be recorded, I would check after the program should have started but the program actually was not being recorded. However, the little red recording dot did appear when I went to that channel and the Guide. However, when I looked at the My Recordings list, it was not showing up. I then deleted selected program that was scheduled to be recorded in the Guide, and re-started recording of that program manually. The program then started to record. Is there any 'fix' for this?
Thanks...
Gary
a couple thing to consider:
- check signal level and its fluctuation during that time of scheduled recordings - use better antenna to cure if it not good
- do factory reset to clean up flash memory
post #16464 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

a couple thing to consider:
- check signal level and its fluctuation during that time of scheduled recordings - use better antenna to cure if it not good
- do factory reset to clean up flash memory
Very good advice. cool.gif
post #16465 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

When you set the clock manually it overrides the PSIP averaging, so you are back to drifting 8 seconds a day. I would do the double reboot again, and then give it a couple of days to settle down before deciding whether the PSIP clock is good or bad.

Thanks will do. Does it have to be "off" to do the time averaging? Often mine stays on full time.

EDIT: First time display after this double reset - 1 min 15 sec fast.

That's strange. We're in the same market but mine were only a few seconds off immediately after the second reboot.

I'm guessing it computes the PSIP average when it scans channels to update the guide. I think it has to be in standby to do this. It can be recording a show, but not two (tuner 1 2 has to be available).

Regarding clock issues: has anyone tried loading the CPU xtal with a small capacitor as was suggested earlier, to see if it changes the 8 sec/day drift?

Edit: Subsequent experiments showed that tuner 2 is used for automatic guide updates. It's not yet clear whether that process also resynchronizes the clock to PSIP, though.
Edited by JHBrandt - 4/8/13 at 1:35pm
post #16466 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Thanks will do. Does it have to be "off" to do the time averaging? Often mine stays on full time.

Whether it needs to be turned off, depends on who you ask. I believe it uses the second tuner to do all the PSIP scanning, just like TVGOS did. Others have suggested that the primary tuner is used for PSIP scanning. You can tell by leaving it on 24/7, and seeing if the PSIP guide data fills in for all the channels. If it does, then that would prove that the second tuner is being used for that function.

Mark
post #16467 of 18096
Ideally it should be able to use either tuner to scan channels but I doubt it does. I thought it used tuner 1 because there's no windowed video in the guide as there is in the menu, so I guessed it was using tuner 1 to update the guide and so couldn't use it to display video. But you're right; I haven't checked. I'll experiment tonight.
post #16468 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

...

Regarding clock issues: has anyone tried loading the CPU xtal with a small capacitor as was suggested earlier, to see if it changes the 8 sec/day drift?
The XTAL is a source of all CPU clocks, better keep it as is; PSIP or manual time set would be enough for all owners here.

Adding a capacitor would add temp/aging variation on his capacitance stability.
post #16469 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyDVR33 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Another option would be to buy a working unit and transfer the hard drive from your dead unit to get access to your recordings. You could then also use your current dead unit for parts for the newly-acquired working unit if you need to do repairs in the future (i.e. hard drive, remote control, power supply, etc.)

There's a used working DTVPal DVR on eBay right now (item number 190816189895) with a current bid price of $20.50 plus $10 shipping. There's 5 days left on the auction, however, so it's anybody's guess what the final auction price will be at this point.
If that was a Buy it Now, someone would have taken that one off the market already! My guess is it goes way over $100, since it is still working. I put it on my watch list to keep an eye on it. Thanks. But see what I posted the same time you were posting this. I had the dead Pal sitting around gathering dust too long, not interested in getting it back unrepaired now that I know why it died.

That auction is starting to heat up a bit. It's up to $66 - still quite a bargain but there are two more days left.
post #16470 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyDVR33 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Actually I kinda figured he's the one who told you it needed a new CPU wink.gif If you can find a replacement, he could probably install it for you.

How about LenL? He had a DTVPal fail recently, and from the description, it sounds like corrupted firmware. P Smith is the expert of course, but there's a good chance LenL's bad Pal has a good CPU.

That's the plan on the CPU. We've been trying to find a replacement for many months; this is my latest attempt.
If LenL's is corrupted firmware, it could still be fixed so he could still use it himself. I was REALLY hoping that would have been the issue with my Pal, but things are never that easy for me. :-(

I've occasionally seen posts in this thread about Pals with tuner issues (can record but can't watch live or vice versa). If you can find those posts, you might PM the posters and see if they still have their Pals but would be willing to part with them. Also check the CM-7000Pal thread.
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