or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 553

post #16561 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Aside from stations' laziness, the concern seems to be that sending more than a certain number of hours of guide data will crash certain DTV converter boxes. At least one of them is reportedly unable to accomodate more than 24 hours' worth of data and will croak if a station sends more..
Then two of our local stations, KXAS that sends out 5 days, KERA that sends 3 days would be disrupting those boxes. Or the stations would have cut back the PSIP data to end problems and complaints.
post #16562 of 18096
That's why I'm very skeptical when reading such statements.
post #16563 of 18096
I wonder which model converter box has this PSIP overload problem.

Anyway still trying to figure out the Pal's clock, last might I did a factory reset followed by two reboots. The clock came up within 10 seconds of real time. This morning it's about 5 seconds ahead from last night. So it seems to be drifting slightly fast once again.
post #16564 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Aside from stations' laziness, the concern seems to be that sending more than a certain number of hours of guide data will crash certain DTV converter boxes. At least one of them is reportedly unable to accomodate more than 24 hours' worth of data and will croak if a station sends more. It makes a convenient excuse for stations to keep their guide data to a minimum, even though PSIP allows for two weeks' worth of guide data to be transmitted.
Any real evidence ? URL ?
This rumor has been discussed in this thread before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Re CECB choking on PSIP:

I know of only one CECB that chokes on too much PSIP: Dish TR40 (probably the TR40+ as well). Ironic if Dish is the main sticking point to getting more PSIP for the TR50.

Choking on PSIP was IMO an Echostar design flaw -- the TR40 loads even deleted channels into the guide. And I had more than most, 35 subchannels, generally with 3 days PSIP, and 2 stations (7 subchannels) went out 6-7 days. I am not sure how the TR40 prioritized stations for the guide, but my biggest data hog, a deleted station, was among the first to load. It had 5 subchannels, 7+ days of PSIP, and even worse, someone at the station from time to time entered 20-30 'programs' per hour. No kidding. rolleyes.gif The TR40 supposedly deletes expired guide in standby and downloads at startup. But it seemed to pause at startup, deleting future guide info as it tried to make room. That's when I got lockups, not often, but not 100% reliable. The main hassle was if I wanted guide info on a channel that loaded after the memory was full, I had to sit on that channel for half an hour to get the guide info to load.

None of my other CECBs choked on data. Most weren't designed to show much guide, but my Zinwell Zat (with the 'hidden' bonus EPG) could accept 16 days PSIP. The most I ever saw was 8 days, but it also went backwards, which was occasionally useful. It took longer to fill the guide a week out, but it never locked up.

These days, my stations don't show as much PSIP. The 6 day station now shows 3 days, 1 day is common, and there are a couple 12 hour PSIPs as well. Things tend to fall apart on the weekend. Even so, if we can overcome any reluctance to let the TR40 choke itself, PSIP may be the best chance for a guide. Without a week, the search function is useless.
post #16565 of 18096
I see only one model mentioned, not boxes.
I don't remember if my TR-40 "chocking", I would ring it again, to see if the claim is valid for certain FW version. But it's most likely OP got the problem with non-standard PSIP or corrupted data. Also, I see no info what FW version was.
post #16566 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

.....Anyway still trying to figure out the Pal's clock, last might I did a factory reset followed by two reboots. The clock came up within 10 seconds of real time. This morning it's about 5 seconds ahead from last night. So it seems to be drifting slightly fast once again.

I believe any "drifting" you get after doing two soft reboots is because the "weighted mean" of the PSIP times in your area is also drifting. I've noticed the same behavior in my area. My DVR clock has been within a few seconds of actual time on some days and on others has been off by as much as 35 seconds. I still prefer this behavior to setting the clock manually because when I was doing that I was going 8 seconds fast per day and had to reset the clock manually every week to keep it within a minute of actual time.
post #16567 of 18096
Not sure if TalkingRat still follows this thread. You may need to PM him to get the answers to your questions.

Hopefully any issues with the TR-40 choking on too much guide were addressed in later firmware releases. I believe the latest firmware was F106. But unlike our DVRs, the TR-40 had no Internet or USB connection; if you have one, you're pretty much stuck with whatever firmware it was sold with.

It's impossible to test anymore; so few stations broadcast substantial PSIP guides now, I doubt there's anyplace in North America that would choke even the buggiest TR-40. Also, I doubt there are enough TR-40's with that particular bug "in the wild" for this to be a valid excuse for stations not broadcasting a longer guide.

But the rumor persists. Some station engineers may believe it; others may realize it's mostly BS but still use it as an excuse.
post #16568 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Not sure if TalkingRat still follows this thread. You may need to PM him to get the answers to your questions.

Hopefully any issues with the TR-40 choking on too much guide were addressed in later firmware releases. I believe the latest firmware was F106. But unlike our DVRs, the TR-40 had no Internet or USB connection; if you have one, you're pretty much stuck with whatever firmware it was sold with.

It's impossible to test anymore; so few stations broadcast substantial PSIP guides now, I doubt there's anyplace in North America that would choke even the buggiest TR-40. Also, I doubt there are enough TR-40's with that particular bug "in the wild" for this to be a valid excuse for stations not broadcasting a longer guide.

But the rumor persists. Some station engineers may believe it; others may realize it's mostly BS but still use it as an excuse.
No one engineer would make technical decision based on rumors. Perhaps owners who need to pay for RAM/memory upgrade ? But the prices are so cheap for HW components now.
Excuse based on rumors? What is a damnation !

Anyway, Aleron's exaggeration is not correct.
post #16569 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

No one engineer would make technical decision based on rumors.

They might if it provides them with a reason not to supply more guide data. After all, these are the same people who are too lazy to even keep accurate station clocks. Besides, maybe they know for a fact which, if any, converter boxes are subject to PSIP limitations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Anyway, Aleron's exaggeration is not correct.

I'm not sure why you seem to be blaming this on me. I was reporting one possible explanation for the reason stations don't supply more guide data. It's not like anyone has done a poll to determine their motives, so we can only speculate as to why the guide offerings remain paltry. A perceived need to support low-quality DTV converter boxes is one frequently reported explanation in the threads on this forum, as is the apparent lack of demand, what with most viewers either using TVs that won't display more than two hours of guide data or DVRs with subscription guide services that eliminate the need for extensive PSIP listings.
post #16570 of 18096
I mean, bringing that point - many boxes [STB] "chokes".

Looks like one particular box, with unknown FW version, perhaps just defective one.
post #16571 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

A perceived need to support low-quality DTV converter boxes is one frequently reported explanation in the threads on this forum, as is the apparent lack of demand, what with most viewers either using TVs that won't display more than two hours of guide data or DVRs with subscription guide services that eliminate the need for extensive PSIP listings.

Don't forget the excuse that it would take too much bandwidth. That one isn't true either, but if they don't want to do something, they just need a lame excuse or two, not an actual reason.

Regarding receivers: My current TV (LG brand) displays only a "now & next" guide. That's all many CECBs will show as well, but I've had somewhat better luck than most: my Philco displays six hours; my CM-7000 CECB (not the Pal DVR) displays 12; my Apex DT250 is second-best with three days; and of course the Pals (both the CECB and the DVRs) top the list with (potentially) a full week. And aside from an old Samsung HD set-top box that died long ago, the Pals are also the only devices I've owned that show an actual "guide" rather than just listings for the channel you're currently tuned to. Despite its bugs, the TR-40 was a good deal for $40 plus shipping!
post #16572 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Don't forget the excuse that it would take too much bandwidth. That one isn't true either, but if they don't want to do something, they just need a lame excuse or two, not an actual reason.

Indeed. One has to wonder why the ATSC standard didn't mandate the use of compression for PSIP listings to enable full guide data to be transmitted continuously, but even uncompressed text is a drop in the bucket compared to HD video.
post #16573 of 18096
BTW, to whom who are looking for the PSIP bandwidth - check TSReader's snapshots at Trip's web site, www.rabbitears.info
post #16574 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

.....Despite its bugs, the TR-40 was a good deal for $40 plus shipping!

Especially if you had a $40 CECB coupon to use to buy it! biggrin.gif
post #16575 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Menu-3-2-6 then you can scroll through the somewhat cryptic data with the Page up-down keys.

I've been away from here for almost a week, so excuse me if already asked by someone else. If so, please let me know the post with the answer if you can. I don't have time to check thru the several pages that have come up since then, because my computer is giving me problems right now. :-(
Anyway, thanks for telling me how to find this data, but the lines with Time next to them made no sense to me. It looked like ALL the clocks were wrong by many hours. And how do I figure out which channel is sending out which of those? I didn't see any channel numbers or names. There was only one that said LOCAL, but I couldn't figure out which channel I would call to ask them to fix that incorrect time.
Thanks
post #16576 of 18096
Don't worry about the hours, just the minutes and seconds.
I think the Local one is the clock in the DVR.
post #16577 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyDVR33 View Post

It looked like ALL the clocks were wrong by many hours.
IIRC they're in GMT, so you have to adjust them in your mind to your local timezone.
post #16578 of 18096
I am having problem with the DVR that it will not turn on when in standby mode. I see on the first page, that it could be a HDMI issue (which I was using), but I've already tried unplugging everything from the DVR: HDMI, coax cable, power... Now I've connected Component instead of HDMI, but when I plug in the power again, it just loads, then goes back into standby. Then when I press the Power button the remote, it just briefly flashes green, but refuses to turn on. Has anyone else had this experience?
post #16579 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzave View Post

I am having problem with the DVR that it will not turn on when in standby mode. I see on the first page, that it could be a HDMI issue (which I was using), but I've already tried unplugging everything from the DVR: HDMI, coax cable, power... Now I've connected Component instead of HDMI, but when I plug in the power again, it just loads, then goes back into standby. Then when I press the Power button the remote, it just briefly flashes green, but refuses to turn on. Has anyone else had this experience?
Have you double checked that the remote is in DVR Mode?
post #16580 of 18096
try to press SysInfo button while you see the hint during boot; if nothing happen it could be a symptoms of famous problem - corrupted flash.
post #16581 of 18096
I tried to press Sys Info during boot as you said, and nothing. Is there anything else I can do? Or do I need to return this thing??
post #16582 of 18096
return ?

if you want to fix it - send it to me (details by PM)
post #16583 of 18096
It is still under warranty. So I guess I want to know if there is other things I can do to test if it's dead.
post #16584 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyDVR33 View Post

I've been away from here for almost a week, so excuse me if already asked by someone else. If so, please let me know the post with the answer if you can. I don't have time to check thru the several pages that have come up since then, because my computer is giving me problems right now. :-(
Anyway, thanks for telling me how to find this data, but the lines with Time next to them made no sense to me. It looked like ALL the clocks were wrong by many hours. And how do I figure out which channel is sending out which of those? I didn't see any channel numbers or names. There was only one that said LOCAL, but I couldn't figure out which channel I would call to ask them to fix that incorrect time.
Thanks

Try post #16537. If that doesn't help ask a specific question or PM me.

First line under IDENT, PSIP time in GMT, Date in European Format, (error in seconds from DTVPal calculated time)
NEXT line under IDENT, unknown
NEXT line under IDENT, unknown -- but seems to have something to do with DST change. (IIRC Mid March the date changed to NOV 4 2013)
Edited by Pete-N2 - 4/5/13 at 10:45am
post #16585 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzave View Post

It is still under warranty. So I guess I want to know if there is other things I can do to test if it's dead.

Did you try what Chuck44 suggested and make sure that your remote is in DVR mode? If not, the DVR will not respond to the remote's commands. You said that you unplugged the power cord but did you also try a "soft reset" by holding down the power button on the remote until the unit reboots (can take up to 10 seconds to reboot).

Also you said that your unit is under warranty. I was curious what brand warranty (SquareTrade, etc.) you have and what they will do for you in the event of equipment malfunction/failure.
post #16586 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzave View Post

It is still under warranty. So I guess I want to know if there is other things I can do to test if it's dead.
I'm pretty sure, using the warranty you'll get your money, not new DVR.
post #16587 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyDVR33 View Post

It looked like ALL the clocks were wrong by many hours.
The times are displayed in GMT; you have to adjust to your local time (corrected: subtract 4 hrs for EDT, 5 hrs for EST or CDT, 6 hours for MDT or CST, 7 hours for PDT or MST)
Quote:
And how do I figure out which channel is sending out which of those?
The first number for each station is a transport stream ID which "should" identify the station. But you'll have to look the TSIDs up someplace like http://rabbitears.info.

One poster saw TSIDs of 0 or 1. That's a mistake on the station's part and you won't be able to tell what station it is from this screen.

Another way to check stations' clocks is to use a different receiver: an HDTV or converter box. Many will display the time sent by the station currently tuned in. One thing, though - I've seen a few stations that don't send ANY time! If you tune to a station and the displayed time stays the same, no matter what it was before you changed channels, you may have a station like that.
Edited by JHBrandt - 5/29/13 at 6:24am
post #16588 of 18096
you guys were right. I had to press the button to put it into DVR mode before pressing Power. It works now. Thanks.
post #16589 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

One poster saw TSIDs of 0 or 1. That's a mistake on the station's part and you won't be able to tell what station it is from this screen.

I have one LP that does not transmit any PSIP data. It shows up with a TSID of 0, but not in the PSIP section.
post #16590 of 18096
That's a problem with many universal remotes, including the Pal's remote. It's easy to put the remote in the wrong mode accidentally - then nothing works. (If the Pal is on, it'll show a warning box, but if it's off....)

I'm not a DirecTV customer but one nice thing about their remotes - they have a slide switch instead of push buttons to change modes, so you can always see at a glance what mode the remote is in.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!