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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 555

post #16621 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

there are 14 elements (and I have absolutely no idea what that means wink.gif

The DTVPal has received PSIP data (time and guide) from 14 different tv channels.
post #16622 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

read my posts in the thread (I did explain it many times)
take your time - read the thread, just read and you'll find many advises
======================
Greetings,
Well, I have spend many hours looking through posts and threads and I have not come up with any specific advice that addresses how to fix the 'looping' problem. I have unplugged the unit overnight but this morning it continues to loop. I can not get the unit to react to any inputs from the remote. Since the remote will not function, then I can not even get into the menu to do a firmware update. I'd appreciate it if you could direct me to posting or site that might be helpful to correct this problem.

I did find "It will require BGA reballing and BGA rework; basically you should remove the flash chip, cleanup PCB and the chip, restore balls on it, reprogram it with good F208 image and solder it back." I have no idea what this means but are these the steps that are needed to fix it?

One of the suggestions was to hold down the remote's power button for a time while the red/green lights appear on the unit, but this does nothing.
In one of your posts, you said "I did answer for similar question in post#9050." But there was no posting from you on this problem.
I can't even find a link to re-update the F202 firmware (I did find the Channelmaster's vertion 1.1.97. Can this be used to update the DTVPal? But since I can't get it out of the looping, there is no way to do any update???)
Gary
post #16623 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I would also give the clock 24 hours to settle in after the two reboots. It seems that people initially experience a larger amount of error right after the double reboot, but then it settles in over the next several hours.
This is what I experienced.
post #16624 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by goddi1 View Post

======================
Greetings,
Well, I have spend many hours looking through posts and threads and I have not come up with any specific advice that addresses how to fix the 'looping' problem...
Wish I could help to stop the back-and-forth. One of mine died, but I was able to get to a menu that basically said the HDD had failed.

HINT: When I refer to old posts I made within a thread I will include the "Post #" which would be helpful here I am sure, with over 16,600 posts.
post #16625 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by goddi1 View Post

.....Since the remote will not function, then I can not even get into the menu to do a firmware update.....I can't even find a link to re-update the F202 firmware.....

What version firmware was your DTVPal DVR at prior to this looping problem? If it was at F202 then there is no way to "re-update" it to F202 as the DVR will not let you re-install the same (or earlier) firmware.

FYI firmware versions prior to F208 were much more susceptible to this loop problem. If you can get your DVR out of this loop you should immediately update to the latest Dish F208 firmware which is on page 1 of this thread at the very top of the page. Also did you read page 1 of this thread under "Known Issues" number 5 and try all of the suggestions there?
post #16626 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

What version firmware was your DTVPal DVR at prior to this looping problem? If it was at F202 then there is no way to "re-update" it to F202 as the DVR will not let you re-install the same (or earlier) firmware.

FYI firmware versions prior to F208 were much more susceptible to this loop problem. If you can get your DVR out of this loop you should immediately update to the latest Dish F208 firmware which is on page 1 of this thread at the very top of the page. Also did you read page 1 of this thread under "Known Issues" number 5 and try all of the suggestions there?
=========================
Greetings,
Thanks for pointing out 'number 5'. I looked at that page but couldn't see the forest for the trees. I had updated to the F208 when I first got the unit. I had tried disconnecting the coax overnight but it continues to loop. But since there is no way of getting out of the looping and being able to use the remote to get into the firmware update menu (even though I already have F208), there seems to be no solution. It looks like I will have no other choice but to get a Tivo Premire, if I want any tvguide and be able to recorded shows.
Thanks for the help.
Gary
post #16627 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by goddi1 View Post

=========================
Greetings,
Thanks for pointing out 'number 5'. I looked at that page but couldn't see the forest for the trees. I had updated to the F208 when I first got the unit. I had tried disconnecting the coax overnight but it continues to loop. But since there is no way of getting out of the looping and being able to use the remote to get into the firmware update menu (even though I already have F208), there seems to be no solution. It looks like I will have no other choice but to get a Tivo Premire, if I want any tvguide and be able to recorded shows.
Thanks for the help.
Gary

P Smith has done these repairs for others in the past from what I have read on this thread. You could PM him and see what you can work out. AFAIK he is the only "repair solution" for the looping problem you are having.
post #16628 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

P Smith has done these repairs for others in the past from what I have read on this thread. You could PM him and see what you can work out. AFAIK he is the only "repair solution" for the looping problem you are having.
====================
I have asked him about this but he wants me to search the Forum for the answer. I would think if he wanted to provide the info he would have done so already. I am running out of time to fix the unit. If it involves sending it in somewhere or major surgery, I don't know if it is worth the effort with no TVGOS anymore. But it would be nice to get it running so I could watch the stuff I have recorded but not watched yet. smile.gif
Gary
post #16629 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by goddi1 View Post

====================
I have asked him about this but he wants me to search the Forum for the answer. I would think if he wanted to provide the info he would have done so already. I am running out of time to fix the unit. If it involves sending it in somewhere or major surgery, I don't know if it is worth the effort with no TVGOS anymore. But it would be nice to get it running so I could watch the stuff I have recorded but not watched yet. smile.gif
Gary
You found that relevant info (as you quoted in your post#16622 ). Sorry, you can't do that job by yourself. PM me, if you want the DVR fixed
post #16630 of 18096
Goddi1, your issue is #5 at the thread's first post here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1099071/the-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic/0_20#user_A6. To recap:
Quote:
DTVPal DVR may get stuck in a "loading...please wait" reboot loop.

This is known as the "corrupt timer" issue.

If your DTVPal DVR has the F208 software, disconnecting the antenna coax will usually halt the reboot loop. While the antenna coax is disconnected, reset the DVR to the factory defaults under Menu -> Setup -> System Setup -> Restore Factory Defaults. That will delete your timers and settings, but it will preserve your recordings and allow your DTVPal DVR to function again with the antenna connected.

If disconnecting the coax does not halt the reboot loop, then your DTVPal DVR is likely dead. This is rare with F208, but it can still happen.

One thing the instructions above don't mention: if disconnecting the coax doesn't help, try pressing Sys Info during the reboot. If you can get to the Sys Info screen, you may be able to get to the menu from there and do the Restore Factory Defaults (which we usually call a factory defaults reset).

If that doesn't work either, P Smith's offer to re-flash your firmware is the only known fix.
post #16631 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfavero View Post

(I hope I'm posting properly to this forum -- I've not done this much.)

I wanted to let people know that today I bought an RCA universal remote set that included the RCR6373R/RCR6473R and RCR3273R/RCR3373R remotes. Neither has a "DVR" button like the original that came with the DTVPal, but I was able to get to the DVR functions by pressing the menu button and navigating to the DVR area from there. I have not used either one much so far, but they both seemed to work using the code 50775. I specifically tried controlling a previously recorded program and was able to play, pause, fast forward. So I'm hoping that at least the RCR6373R (the larger remote) will "play well" with the receiver/recorder box.

Not a problem. Your remotes should work fine. Most universal remotes will work with the DTVPal using Dish Network device codes. Look under "satellite receiver" codes if you don't see Dish listed under DVR codes.

The only issue is that most non-Dish remotes only use remote address 01, which could be a problem if you have another Dish device besides the DTVPal.
post #16632 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

My observation is that the PSIP data is ephemeral and is sent on pretty much a continuous basis. I say this because anytime you want to refresh the data you can just tune to a channel and frequently the data for a time block comes and goes. By that I mean you can be looking at the guide for a channel and the info will disappear and then a few seconds or minutes later will reappear.

The disappearing and reappearing data seems to be a bug in the DTVPal. There is no question that tuning to a channel will download that stations guide data for how ever many hours they send out. The question has always been how frequently, when the DTVPal is in standby mode, the DTVPal does a channel sweep to keep the guide filled in for all the channels. My PSIP data seems to update about every 2 hours.

Mark

Disappearing/reappearing data has also been reported on the CM-7000Pal thread. It's mostly a problem with extended show descriptions, it seems.

There are recommendations re: how often to send guide data, but they are very lax:
EIT-0: (the 3-hour block containing the show currently airing): repeat at least every 0.5 seconds
EIT-1: (the next 3-hour block): repeat at least every 3 seconds
EIT-2 and up: repeat at least every minute

Luckily almost everyone sends out guide data much more frequently. Nobody wants to remain tuned to a single frequency for 60 seconds to pick up more than a few hours of guide info - especially if you have 20-30 RF channels to check! But extended descriptions are sent in different tables, the ETTs, and those are repeated less often.

What the Pal puts into its guide should be a function not only of how often the Pal scans for updates, but also how long it "listens" to each frequency and what data the station happens to transmit during each "listening" interval.

I've observed that when you're tuned to a station, it will update the listings for that station more or less continuously. On occasion, that does seem to involve deleting info (particularly extended descriptions), which will fill back in once the appropriate data is received again.
post #16633 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I would also give the clock 24 hours to settle in after the two reboots. It seems that people initially experience a larger amount of error right after the double reboot, but then it settles in over the next several hours.

Yes, well, I re-did the 2 reboots yesterday, and to my absolute amazement, the clock was 4 hours and 2 minutes fast. So I could have handled the 2 minute problem and given it some time to fix itself, but 4 hours was a wee bit much. I checked, and the time zone was correct, too. So I fixed the clock. Again. Maybe I'll try the 2 reboots again today and see if it gets less ditzy....
post #16634 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

Yes, well, I re-did the 2 reboots yesterday, and to my absolute amazement, the clock was 4 hours and 2 minutes fast. .
Did you set the time zone and DST mode?
post #16635 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Did you set the time zone and DST mode?

Yes, the time zone was set to Eastern and DST was On. It was very strange. I'll try again today and see if it works any better this time.
post #16636 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

Yes, the time zone was set to Eastern and DST was On. It was very strange. I'll try again today and see if it works any better this time.
please, each time when you doing the experiments, make snapshots of Diag station's list
post #16637 of 18096
ON another subject.

What we need is a utility that can zap (Change) the F208 Firmware so that the PALDVR thinks it has newer firmware to load. Anyone have the ability to do this? We would just change something in F208 that would make it look like F209. With the ability to modify the utility so that we could make F208 look like F210, F211 etc as we need to flash the memory. There must be some key that the PALDVR looks at that tells it this is newer firmware an apply it whether it is newer or not.

Thoughts?
post #16638 of 18096
Interesting idea. If, somehow, one could modify the version flag within the firmware file (available in post 1) then the Pal would accept it as a new version and re-flash its firmware with the "new" copy.

A few possible show-stoppers come to mind. First, most of the firmware file is likely encrypted. But perhaps the version flag is not. Someone would have to analyze the file and try to figure that out. It would be less difficult if they had a couple of different versions of the firmware (say, an old F202 copy along with the current F208 copy) to compare.

Second, the firmware file may be digitally signed. If so any alteration would invalidate the signature and most likely prevent the Pal from loading it.

Finally, even if it works it may not do any good. If you're stuck in the reboot loop, your Pal probably won't re-flash its firmware even if everything is perfect.
post #16639 of 18096
UPD files are encrypted and signed. No dice.
post #16640 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

Yes, well, I re-did the 2 reboots yesterday, and to my absolute amazement, the clock was 4 hours and 2 minutes fast.....

Have you looked at your diagnostics screen to see how far off each station's PSIP time is off from "real" time? Maybe you have a situation where the majority of your local stations' PSIP times are WAY OFF and are wreaking havoc with the "weighted mean" calculation. If that's the case you'll need to contact the offending stations in your area to try to get their PSIP times corrected. Of course you can always just set the manual clock and deal with the approximately 8-second drift per day but that's not really that convenient.
post #16641 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

UPD files are encrypted and signed. No dice.

Maybe but encryption not required as it is probably compiled code that was originally written in C or C++ before it went through the complier.. Not too many people on the planet can read and manipulate machine language easily other than another program.

But if there was one bit that triggered the PALDVR to read the firmware update there might be a way to change it if we knew what and where the trigger was.
post #16642 of 18096
All 'upd' files are encrypted and signed. They have different content and its length ( verified from flash dumps ), but 'upd' files has same size. Really, it's a heavy roadblock what any idea wouldn't remove.
post #16643 of 18096
All the info on psip and the clock have been helpfull and informative.
I have been running two units for over 4 years (from day one) - many hours per day and with the help of this group everything has been great - even upgraded one hard drive.
BUT tonight watching a recording a message came up 'YOUR UNIT IS OVERHEATING IT IS DANGEROUS TO CONTINUE' (not exact words I turned it off quickly and unplugged). This is not the hd upgraded unit - it has never been opened.
In all my following this forum I do not remember this messsge being discussed - I may have missed it.
Heat means fan? hard drive? the other guts? It will sit unpluged overnight.
Please give me a direction and I will follow it.
Thanks for any guidence
Bernieoc
opps - posted this on the 7000 by mistake - as you can see from the time span I am an original dtvpaldvr owner
post #16644 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

Heat means fan? hard drive? the other guts? It will sit unpluged overnight.
Please give me a direction and I will follow it.

If I were you, I'd open it up and clean out the fan and the insides. I open mine every few months to blow out the fan and the insides of the box. It often amazes me how much dust can accumulate in electronic equipment.
post #16645 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

All 'upd' files are encrypted and signed. They have different content and its length ( verified from flash dumps ), but 'upd' files has same size. Really, it's a heavy roadblock what any idea wouldn't remove.

Not to mention the crc check that would be done on the file so the DTVPal could verify that it isn't corrupted. If you just changed one bit in that file it would fail that check.
post #16646 of 18096
The worst: calculating CRC is well known algos, but if it signed, you're out of luck to change anything.
post #16647 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Does anyone else have more than 21?

Mine says 22 elements - surprising because I get the same channels Ed does so I expected to see 21 like him.
post #16648 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

All the info on psip and the clock have been helpfull and informative.
I have been running two units for over 4 years (from day one) - many hours per day and with the help of this group everything has been great - even upgraded one hard drive.
BUT tonight watching a recording a message came up 'YOUR UNIT IS OVERHEATING IT IS DANGEROUS TO CONTINUE' (not exact words I turned it off quickly and unplugged). This is not the hd upgraded unit - it has never been opened.
In all my following this forum I do not remember this messsge being discussed - I may have missed it.
Heat means fan? hard drive? the other guts? It will sit unpluged overnight.
Please give me a direction and I will follow it.
Thanks for any guidence
Bernieoc
opps - posted this on the 7000 by mistake - as you can see from the time span I am an original dtvpaldvr owner

I agree with Wiscojim. Most likely it just needs a good cleaning.

The Pal has a temperature sensor: when it gets warm it turns on a fan to cool things back down. But if that doesn't work for some reason and the temperature gets high enough it will show you that message.

The most likely cause is that air circulation is blocked by dust. If cleaning doesn't help and you continue to get the overheating message, it's possible the fan isn't working and needs to be replaced; but try the simple fix of cleaning it first wink.gif
post #16649 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Have you looked at your diagnostics screen to see how far off each station's PSIP time is off from "real" time? Maybe you have a situation where the majority of your local stations' PSIP times are WAY OFF and are wreaking havoc with the "weighted mean" calculation. If that's the case you'll need to contact the offending stations in your area to try to get their PSIP times corrected. Of course you can always just set the manual clock and deal with the approximately 8-second drift per day but that's not really that convenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

please, each time when you doing the experiments, make snapshots of Diag station's list

Here is my update: I did the 2 reboots again yesterday, and the clock came back fine. It was a minute fast, but I'm giving it some time to sort itself out before I go back to setting it myself. I was unaware that the diagnostics screen had a list of the PSIP times. Could you tell me which tab to click on to find that out? I've kind of gone through them before, but I don't understand most - well, actually, any - of them. I would be interested to see what all the station's times are, though. Thanks.
post #16650 of 18096
One picture is worth a 1000 words. In the example attached the time is 5 minutes and 26 seconds past the hour. Ignore the hour -- is's GMT.

The diagnostics screen starts with a catagory title, data for each channel in the category (indented) and finally a summary.

DSC00032.JPG 41k .JPG file
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