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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 559

post #16741 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post

I have 2 DtvPal's in use. I reset the time a couple days ago. They had both been about 5 minutes fast. When I do the reboot and allow the time to autoset , I always get a hour off. I correct the hour manually. I think than it never corrects the time and continues to drift.
I have a network hub near the TV. I just plugged one DTVPal into the network . We'll see if the time updates.
If you are exactly one hour off, make sure you are set to the correct time zone and whether you are observing DST.
post #16742 of 18096
I thought my clock was fixed after a double soft reboot. But a few weeks later, I noticed it had drifted several minutes. No I haven't done a restore. Might at some point but not in the foreseeable . . .
post #16743 of 18096
I had the same thing happen to one of my two Pals. It was the one I hadn't reset after TVGoS went away. I did another double reboot and it has kept accurate time for the last week and a half, but I'm keeping an eye on it.
post #16744 of 18096
I want to share a result of my experiments related to using external(!) drives with the DVR:
- it was asked a few times: how to change drives ?
- no need to disconnect power cord of the box, just do soft reboot and coordinate insertion of other drive.

1. To remove a drive: power off DVR by remote; it will stop buffering current channel and the drive will have no activity;
2. Be sure you have no timer for next few minutes and red LED is OFF ;
3. Remove the drive (I'm using Vantec EasySWAP enclosure with a fan and a lock);
4. Press Power button on remote, hold it... you'll see some blinks of green LED, then no LEDs, then both red&green will be ON
5. Quickly (!) insert (or connect) other drive - you have 15-20 seconds for that action before FW will send spinup cmd to the drive

The DVR will reboot and pick other drive in no time.
post #16745 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post

I have 2 DtvPal's in use. I reset the time a couple days ago. They had both been about 5 minutes fast. When I do the reboot and allow the time to autoset , I always get a hour off. I correct the hour manually. I think than it never corrects the time and continues to drift.
I have a network hub near the TV. I just plugged one DTVPal into the network . We'll see if the time updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

If you are exactly one hour off, make sure you are set to the correct time zone and whether you are observing DST.

Definitely check that your time zone is set right. If it is, then try doing the reboot when tuned to a different station. The reason to try rebooting when tuned to a different station is because of what happened to me the day after the DST change. I was playing with TSReader, and noticed that my CBS station had not set their DST flag. Although my clock was correct on the DTVPal I was curious what would happen if I did a soft reboot while tuned to my CBS station. Sure enough when my DTVPal came back up, my clock was off an hour. It took at least one reboot (maybe two) on a station with the correct DST flag set to get my clock to be correct again. Fortunately after a couple of days my CBS station corrected the DST flag. So it is possible that the station you were tuned to when you did the reboot, does not have the DST flag set correctly.

Mark
post #16746 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post

I have 2 DtvPal's in use. I reset the time a couple days ago. They had both been about 5 minutes fast. When I do the reboot and allow the time to autoset , I always get a hour off. I correct the hour manually. I think than it never corrects the time and continues to drift.
I have a network hub near the TV. I just plugged one DTVPal into the network . We'll see if the time updates.

Let us know what happens with your DTVPal that is connected to your network. After playing with this myself for a few minutes tonight I'm skeptical that it will find an ntp server (my PSIP time is only 2 or 3 seconds ahead of my atomic clock, but I expected to see some change if it locked onto an ntp server). I tried connecting to a network, enabling updates, setting the update time to a few minutes ahead, turning off the DTVPal, and letting it do the "check for update" reboot. The time was still 3 seconds off from my atomic clock. I also tried setting the clock 5 minutes ahead manually, and then setting the update time a few minutes ahead, and letting it do the "check for update" reboot. the clock was still off 5 minutes when it was done. It could be that I didn't wait long enough for it to find the ntp server, although the second I plugged the network cable in, the DTVPal alerted me that it had found a network connection.

Something else I noticed is that this reboot doesn't do a scan for PSIP data like the soft reboot does. After it reboots, it shows the "loading please wait" screen, and then switches to a screen that reports that it is going to standby. It does not even go to the "loading program information" screen with the progress bar. In other words, I don't believe that enabling updates will aid in keeping the PSIP data updated, if that is what jccsup was suggesting.

Update: I left the network plugged in all night, and set the Updates time to 1:00am. This morning there was no change. The DTVPal clock is off by 3 seconds the same as before connecting the network. For comparison, I sync'd my computer to the ntp server that it points to (realizing that it probably wouldn't be the same server that the DTVPal would use), and my computer clock is now exactly the same time as the atomic clock. Unless this ntp server just happens to be 3 seconds slow, like the PSIP time, I doubt that my DTVPal is looking for an ntp server.
Edited by mabuttra - 4/25/13 at 5:03am
post #16747 of 18096
Since I posted two weeks ago that mine were both behaving similarly, they are still drifting maybe 5-10 sec fast during the day then correcting back to 5 to 10 sec slow the next morning, within that range daily, and the guide updating has been working too, as long as I turn them off overnight rather than leaving on like I used to do.

One Pal did get confused the other day. While I searching back and forth looking for a certain place in a program, the audio got completely out of sync to the video. Not sure how that happens. Taking it in and out of Pause a few times and generally messing with it finally got back in sync. Later the video and audio got all scrambled and pixelated for several second scoming out of Pause, but it has since been OK. Seems like I saw things like this start happening with the original HDD in the unit right before it failed. But this time there's plenty of open space on this drive, last time was full and I had to keep deleting old programs to record new until it died.
post #16748 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Since I posted two weeks ago that mine were both behaving similarly, they are still drifting maybe 5-10 sec fast during the day then correcting back to 5 to 10 sec slow the next morning, within that range daily, and the guide updating has been working too, as long as I turn them off overnight rather than leaving on like I used to do.

One Pal did get confused the other day. While I searching back and forth looking for a certain place in a program, the audio got completely out of sync to the video. Not sure how that happens. Taking it in and out of Pause a few times and generally messing with it finally got back in sync. Later the video and audio got all scrambled and pixelated for several second scoming out of Pause, but it has since been OK. Seems like I saw things like this start happening with the original HDD in the unit right before it failed. But this time there's plenty of open space on this drive, last time was full and I had to keep deleting old programs to record new until it died.
when you see such behavior - first rescue is soft reboot - hold power button on remote for 10+ seconds, while you'll see both LED are on
post #16749 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

when you see such behavior - first rescue is soft reboot - hold power button on remote for 10+ seconds, while you'll see both LED are on

Did not need a soft reboot this time. Got it straightened out by pausing and back to play a few times waiting a few seconds in-between to seemingly let it catch up. That way I didn't lose the program I was watching during all this.
post #16750 of 18096
this time you've got lucky smile.gif
post #16751 of 18096
Time zone and DST are set correct on both boxes. Update was disabled. Set update to 4:00 am. Program info was there with update off so I wonder if update is just for TVGuide data.
I'm skeptical too about the box getting time from the network, it was just easy to try. I set time on both recently so it will take a while to see if time still drifts. The diagnostic shows a bunch of PSIP data that looks like time info from twenty some stations.
post #16752 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post

Time zone and DST are set correct on both boxes. Update was disabled. Set update to 4:00 am. Program info was there with update off so I wonder if update is just for TVGuide data.
Updates is ONLY for updating the firmware, which neither Dish or Channel Master support any more.
It it not for, and has nothing to do with updating program info, with or without TVGOS.
post #16753 of 18096
Mabuttra is the expert on how the Pal downloaded TVGoS data, but IIRC TVGoS had a set schedule for its data dumps (mostly overnight, some during the day, none during prime time). I think the Pal just followed this set schedule and didn't use the auto-update time. I never set auto-update on mine and TVGoS worked fine until it went away.

AFAIK the auto-update time was only used to check for new firmware and reboot. When the unit was first released this was handy. But Dish hasn't released a new firmware update in years, so now the "update" feature is just a daily auto-reboot.

The best method known for stopping the clock from drifting is to lock it to PSIP with two reboots, but IIRC that gave you the wrong time (one hour off) when you tried it. If you set the clock manually, it'll gain about 8 sec/day unless the auto-update either: 1) gets the current time from the Internet (unlikely, but possible; code to do this does seem to be in the firmware), or 2) locks the clock to PSIP "correctly" (w/o the one-hour error you experienced).

If it doesn't work, you might try the double reboot again, but first try tuning to different stations as mabuttra suggested. The one-hour error you got may have come from a station with an incorrect DST flag (each station has their own). We don't know for sure how the Pal determines whether DST is in effect, but during a soft reboot it might just "trust" the station it's tuned to, and if that station is wrong you'll get the wrong time.
post #16754 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Updates is ONLY for updating the firmware, which neither Dish or Channel Master support any more.
[...]

Are you sure that you can't still update older firmware through the network? The reason I ask, is because when I was connected to the network last night I went to the menu and told it to update the firmware, thinking that it would tell me no updates found, or update files missing, or something like that. Instead it told me that I already had the update installed. I thought that was odd if the updates have been removed from their server, how would it know I already had the latest update installed? Has anyone who has older firmware than 208 tried to update their DTVPal through that menu selection?
post #16755 of 18096
anyone could get 202,206 or 207... by reprogramming flash chip directly wink.gif
Edited by P Smith - 4/25/13 at 8:42pm
post #16756 of 18096
Ok you have piqued my curiosity (and I hope this is not covered in Post 1)

The Flash part (16MB Spansion S99-50052 Flash IC) --- is it plug-in or SM?
What do you put the IC in to program it? (What kind of programmer?)
Can I assume that the raw (not programmed) part is NOTavailable?
post #16757 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Ok you have piqued my curiosity (and I hope this is not covered in Post 1)

The Flash part (16MB Spansion S99-50052 Flash IC) --- is it plug-in or SM? *
What do you put the IC in to program it? (What kind of programmer?) **
Can I assume that the raw (not programmed) part is NOTavailable? ***
* - it's a BGA chip (it's covered in post#1)
** - any kind what is support the model of IC and has proper BGA adapter
*** - correct

Adding to that (check my posts here for keyword "BGA") you should be proficient in BGA chips rework and has good equipment (BGA rework station)
Edited by P Smith - 4/25/13 at 8:43pm
post #16758 of 18096
WARNING !

If your DVR exhibit some weird behavior, open a cover and check small and big electrolytic capacitors on power PCB and main PCB, also remove drive's holder and open CPU's can (gently !) - there are two to check.
See pictures of recently discovered bulged caps.
DSCI0282.JPG 2359k .JPG file DSCI0283.JPG 2429k .JPG file DSCI0284.JPG 2401k .JPG file

What that mean ?
You or someone must check ALL electrolytic capacitors of the DVR for its value and ESR !
Replace bulged caps and these what has bad values C & ESR.
Edited by P Smith - 4/26/13 at 9:20am
post #16759 of 18096
Why would they go bad?
post #16760 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Why would they go bad?
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=4 should help.
post #16761 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Why would they go bad?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
post #16762 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Why would they go bad?
Because they are electrolytic capacitors! They have a finite life especially in switch-mode power supplies like our Pals have. Some last longer, some fail within a few years. For example, I can't count how many ( a lot!) Samsung SV-5000 multistandard VCRs I fixed with failed electrolytics capacitors in the power supply, some still in the 1 year warranty. But I digress... I was wondering when failed electrolytics would start showing up in our Pal DVRs.
post #16763 of 18096
I want emphasize one more time - if you see bulged capacitors (actually just one), that means all others in the device must be checked for its capacitance and ESR.
All of them because they came from same vendor and has high chance been manufactured at same plant with same bad quality chemicals same time.
post #16764 of 18096
So does this mean that in all likelihood all the DTVPAL units out there are doomed soon and will be trash or need to go to PSMITH for repair?

Good news for our forum repairman.
post #16765 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

So does this mean that in all likelihood all the DTVPAL units out there are doomed soon and will be trash or need to go to PSMITH for repair?

Good news for our forum repairman.
Some of them definitely.

I'll post a photo of very good "opening tool " soon ... You are guys amazing me when I see the DVRs eek.gif how damaged the edges ...oh man !

The Tool:
DSCI0285.JPG 2585k .JPG file DSCI0286.JPG 2602k .JPG file DSCI0287.JPG 2367k .JPG file
The tool's sizes:
DSCI0288.JPG 2548k .JPG file DSCI0289.JPG 2540k .JPG file

The DVR's hole's sizes:
DSCI0290.JPG 2366k .JPG file DSCI0291.JPG 2414k .JPG file DSCI0292.JPG 2469k .JPG file


Align the tool by shaped edge to a middle of the DVR, wiggle just little bit and will feel/hear disengaging moment while pray by two fingers two half of the case at connection line near the latch.

I would recommend to find little thicker and wider spoon smile.gif or metal/plastic piece with sizes: 0.5"x0.1"x2". Don't forget shape it at active end.

Time to see how to open the box and do not damage anything !

After removing two rubber feet and removing three [philips] screws, time to start using proper tool:
- use your two hands (I did by using two fingers on one hand and holding a camera in other )
DSCI0294.JPG 2368k .JPG file
- press here while keep praying at corner
DSCI0295.JPG 2371k .JPG file
- then here
DSCI0296.JPG 2372k .JPG file
- time to disengage second front latch
DSCI0297.JPG 2370k .JPG file DSCI0298.JPG 2366k .JPG file
- going clockwise (from bottom look) - making back corner:
DSCI0299.JPG 2368k .JPG file
- last big latch in 4th corner:
DSCI0300.JPG 2367k .JPG file
- last two small latches are on a rear side; first one is easy to make - gently apply force by your finger and pray a cover same time:
DSCI0301.JPG 2369k .JPG file
- 6th small latch is hardest - I'm using my "tool" to gently pray it out:
DSCI0302.JPG 2366k .JPG file

Don't worry if last corner latch will closed - using the "tool" you will open it in no time.

Do little training and after two or three attempts you will be a professional ! smile.gif [who're don't make scoffs or any damage to the device]
Edited by P Smith - 4/26/13 at 10:41am
post #16766 of 18096
I would also add that after you get done breaking into the DTVPAL that was protected like Fort Knox, break off all the tangs that locked it and then in the future you can get in and out of the case to clean and inspect without having to pry it open etc. The top will sit on the base quite nicely without all those clips.

Unless you are in California like PSMITH and dealing with earthquakes, the top is not going anywhere.
post #16767 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

I would also add that after you get done breaking into the DTVPAL that was protected like Fort Knox, break off all the tangs that locked it and then in the future you can get in and out of the case to clean and inspect without having to pry it open etc. The top will sit on the base quite nicely without all those clips.
.

I did that, cut them off for easy access, cleaning etc., put back together with the screws, secure enough not going anywhere. Also added stick-on non-marring feet at the bottom corners not covering the screw holes to raise unit about 3/4" which also gives some air circulation under the Pal.
Edited by ed_in_tx - 4/26/13 at 12:42pm
post #16768 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

You are guys amazing me when I see the DVRs eek.gif how damaged the edges ...oh man !
Do little training and after two or three attempts you will be a professional ! smile.gif [who're don't make scoffs or any damage to the device]


eek.gif No kidding! Someone mangled the hell out of the DVR case in your pics, LOL!
I followed the instructions in this threads first post, when I replaced my hard drive.
Worked very well, can't even tell the case has been opened.smile.gif
post #16769 of 18096
About bulged capacitors from pictures above:
- two of them same kind: 2200 mF 10V 105C by Nichicon, one on main PCB, second - on PS PCB;
interesting on PS PCB there are three of them sitting in parallel on one rail - two are OK, one bulged;
- small is 820mF 6.3V 105C by Teapo, sit near CPU.


[corrected info about second type of bulged capacitor)]
Edited by P Smith - 4/28/13 at 11:53am
post #16770 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

About bulged capacitors from pictures above:
- two of them same kind: 2200 mF 10V 105C by Nichicon, one on main PCB, second - on PS PCB;
interesting on PS PCB there are three of them sitting in parallel on one rail - two are OK, one bulged;
- small 850mF 6V 105C by Takeo near CPU..
hmmm.. Nichicon "UPW" series is what I always use replacing failed SMPS caps. I'd go to 16V rated on those 10V that failed.
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