or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 561

post #16801 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

- seems to me a letter "4" (part of hex value) in a state is good sign - some data accepted and using
- 1 hr equal 3600 seconds smile.gif
...

Which position in the Hex number?
post #16802 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Which position in the Hex number?
My guess wold be:
- it's sort of compound of flags (so far seen 0,1,2,3,4) in 4 four nibbles (4x4 bits eq WORD - two bytes); perhaps it is a "weight" value ?
- I could make my guess (again) what each of four parts meaning: signal level good, time stamps coming regularly, difference between others is not big, ...
post #16803 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

As I stated when we were discussing this issue in December/January, I think the diagnostics screens where added primarily so the designers could debug their software and never really intended for the user. It was not removed before release for fear of breaking something or they thought that they might need it for the next release.

I wonder what the diagnostics screens looked like in the first release.
Most likely it is working data, for current troubleshooting (perhaps by trained CSR ?), you should take in account how many locations, how many combinations of signals to procure such troubleshooting and presence of the data ...

As to that limit 7 or 8 what allow to see other parts beside main PSIP, I think it was enough for UK developers with HW simulation of USA simple OTA environment. Those Brits echostar engineers didn't realize we would have more, like a normal value for us is 20+ stations. biggrin.gif
post #16804 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Since the station Ident is 0 this entry is probably bogus data. Any LP's in the area?

I do have one Ident=0 in my PSIP data that I suspect comes from Muskegon--don't recall how I figured that out--a city (not?) too far from where I live. (Is 75 miles close enough to receive an LP station's signal? I can't actually watch the channel but it has a 0x4404 hex string on the Diagnostics screen and a record of very accurate time for three months.) I'm not 100% certain because my PSIP records go back to only Jan. 29, but it was probably in the list back in December and is the station in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

As to that limit 7 or 8 what allow to see other parts beside main PSIP, I think it was enough for UK developers with HW simulation of USA simple OTA environment. Those Brits echostar engineers didn't realize we would have more, like a normal value for us is 20+ stations. biggrin.gif

The limit is higher, at least 14, because that is the number of stations I initially had listed after rerunning the installation wizard when I wrote down the data in my post #16798. The PSIP time entry disappears with 19 elements (I could see it with 18).
post #16805 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABHiDef View Post

...
The limit is higher, at least 14, because that is the number of stations I initially had listed after rerunning the installation wizard when I wrote down the data in my post #16798. The PSIP time entry disappears with 19 elements (I could see it with 18).
The limit is defined by two factors: how many stations in a list and how many station's sending PSIP, at least that packets what are correct.
I got 10 and all are good, included in the output, so last part (user) has been cut.
post #16806 of 18096
After making short list of PSIP elements by resetting the DVR to Default and running initial setup and using Ethernet, I don't see any changes in the debug window.
Nothing what could resemble that possible NTP source of timestamps ...

Need to find a way into real debug port of the DVR.
post #16807 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Do a warm boot. See if the order of ID's reverses.

I confirmed this last night. My PSIP header claims 22 elements, which is over the limit of 19. So I took snapshots of the 19 visible ones, then rebooted. Sure enough, the first three elements listed were new ones not seen before, and the fourth & fifth ones were the last two (from before the reboot) in reverse order.

Of course with that many elements I don't see any headers other than PSIP. Anyway, I matched 20 of the 22 elements to local stations. The other two show bogus TSIDs of 0 and 1. There are 9 stations I can receive but that I couldn't match up, all LPTVs:
KPFW 18
K25FW 25
KODF 26
KHPK 28
KWDA 30 (virtual channel 30 but RF 21)
K31GL 31
KLEG 44
KATA 50
KHFD 51

Two of the above 9 must be the elements with bogus TSIDs, but I have no easy way to tell which is which. The element with TSID 0 is over 2 hours off the correct time though. If a station is sending a time that far off, I should be able to find it with a converter box.
post #16808 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I confirmed this last night. My PSIP header claims 22 elements, which is over the limit of 19. So I took snapshots of the 19 visible ones, then rebooted. Sure enough, the first three elements listed were new ones not seen before, and the fourth & fifth ones were the last two (from before the reboot) in reverse order.

Of course with that many elements I don't see any headers other than PSIP. Anyway, I matched 20 of the 22 elements to local stations. The other two show bogus TSIDs of 0 and 1. There are 9 stations I can receive but that I couldn't match up, all LPTVs:
KPFW 18
K25FW 25
KODF 26
KHPK 28
KWDA 30 (virtual channel 30 but RF 21)
K31GL 31
KLEG 44
KATA 50
KHFD 51

Two of the above 9 must be the elements with bogus TSIDs, but I have no easy way to tell which is which. The element with TSID 0 is over 2 hours off the correct time though. If a station is sending a time that far off, I should be able to find it with a converter box.
More important to see status bytes ... perhaps posting combined snapshot (like I did last time) would give some data to discuss.
post #16809 of 18096
All 22 had the same status (0x4404) so my data isn't very interesting. Mostly I was just confirming that the reboot trick works to show more than 19 elements. Others can now use the trick to post their own (possibly more interesting) data.

Of the 20 identifiable TSIDs, 19 were full-power stations (18 in DFW, plus KXII in S. Oklahoma). The only identifiable LPTV was KBOP 20.
Edited by JHBrandt - 5/2/13 at 1:10pm
post #16810 of 18096
Changing the subject ever so slightly ........when we use an external hard drive enclosure with its own power supply with the DTVPAL, are we confined to the same hard drives that are listed in post #1 and the few newer drives found to work and documented in later posts or does it open us up to using any SATA hard drive that is up to 1 TB?
post #16811 of 18096
I don't think it matters whether the drive is internal or external. We were never restricted to the drives listed in post #1. That was just a handy reference of drives confirmed to work, but it's been reported that pretty much any SATA II-compatible drive between 80 GB and 1 TB will work.

Of course there are other considerations (drive reliability, power usage, etc.) but those are the bare minimum requirements.

The only thing to watch out for with an external enclosure is that it doesn't spin down the drive after a period of inactivity.
Edited by JHBrandt - 5/2/13 at 1:14pm
post #16812 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

More important to see status bytes ... perhaps posting combined snapshot (like I did last time) would give some data to discuss.
I thought that what I was trying to get to was obvious, but maybe not.. If you have a large error in the calculated time and have more than 19 stations and the first 19 look good, you can check the rest of the stations (assuming you have less than 38) by doing a soft boot.
post #16813 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I don't think it matters whether the drive is internal or external. We were never restricted to the drives listed in post #1. That was just a handy reference of drives confirmed to work, but it's been reported that pretty much any SATA II-compatible drive between 80 GB and 1 TB will work.

Of course there are other considerations (drive reliability, power usage, etc.) but those are the bare minimum requirements.

The only thing to watch out for with an external enclosure is that it doesn't spin down the drive after a period of inactivity.
Misconception.

a) the DVR's drive never stop spinning, if it connected directly to the main board;
b) if you'll use external enclosure (mean it have own controller), then you could configure it to spin-down the drive after some inactivity.

I'm using TT BlacX dock (with own controller) for some tests , the dock is connected to PC via USB port and to DVR by eSATA-SATA long cable; as soon I connect eSATA cable, the controller cease USB part (PC getting 'disconnect' cmd) and switch the drive to DVR. And after disconnecting eSATA cable opposite action happening - PC get notification of new USB device.
post #16814 of 18096
I think the topic started with this post. Ko220 was experiencing the drifting clock, tried 2 reboots, and ended up with a clock a full minute ahead. So he went back to setting it manually and dealing with the drift. We were wondering what PSIP element(s) was/were throwing his clock so far off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

My time keeps getting off, by about 8 to 10 seconds/day faster. This makes the end of some of my recordings disappear. I tried the fix that was recommended here, 2 reboots in a row. It changed the clock a full minute ahead, so I then set the time myself. But now the time keeps advancing again. It's not a huge deal, I can go in and change the time every few days, but it's a little annoying. Has anyone found any other fixes for this problem? Thanks!

Ed also had the drifting clock, but a factory defaults reset followed by 2 reboots seems to have fixed it. He's in DFW so he probably has the same elements as me, except possibly for KXII, KBOP, or one of the two bogus TSIDs (he reported 21 elements vs. my 22).
Edited by JHBrandt - 5/2/13 at 2:43pm
post #16815 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

The only thing to watch out for with an external enclosure is that it doesn't spin down the drive after a period of inactivity.
Misconception.

a) the DVR's drive never stop spinning, if it connected directly to the main board;
b) if you'll use external enclosure (mean it have own controller), then you could configure it to spin-down the drive after some inactivity.

"Misconception?" I think you said the same thing I did. If you use an external enclosure, you need to make sure it doesn't spin down the drive. If your drive is mounted internally, you don't need to worry about it.
post #16816 of 18096
Sorry, I took the one phrase as whole description.

I wouldn't worry about spin down the drive by an enclosure's controller. I see no issues here. Adding to that, ppl using inexpensive "dumb" external HDD mounts w/out any controller inside. It's just me, who is doing fixes and data recovery who manage dual access to the drive from DVR and PC (sharing in own time, not simultaneous access)...
post #16817 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

"Misconception?" I think you said the same thing I did. If you use an external enclosure, you need to make sure it doesn't spin down the drive. If your drive is mounted internally, you don't need to worry about it.

Well I think I am confused. You see I had a Seagate drive that was 1 TB and it would not work in the DTVPAL. I moved it to my computer and it works fine. I sent PSMITH some stats on the drive from HDPARM and no issues turned up with it.

So it is not true that any drive works internally. I think others had issues with drives not working too.

I was asking the question because the issue seemed to be power related. Of course I could pull the 1 TB Seagate drive out of my PC and put it in an enclosure and see if works that way which would prove that using an external enclosure will or will not make more drives available.
post #16818 of 18096
If anyone is interested antennalogic is currently selling the very last one of their lot of brand-new Dish DTVPal DVRs on eBay for $479.99 plus shipping! eek.gif
post #16819 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Well I think I am confused. You see I had a Seagate drive that was 1 TB and it would not work in the DTVPAL. I moved it to my computer and it works fine. I sent PSMITH some stats on the drive from HDPARM and no issues turned up with it.

So it is not true that any drive works internally. I think others had issues with drives not working too.

I was asking the question because the issue seemed to be power related. Of course I could pull the 1 TB Seagate drive out of my PC and put it in an enclosure and see if works that way which would prove that using an external enclosure will or will not make more drives available.

That's surprising. I wonder what the problem is? Could possibly be:
1) Advanced Format: It's possible the Pal doesn't play nicely with newer AF drives. OTOH they may work just fine. Has anyone successfully tried an AF drive in the Pal?
2) SATA III: SATA III drives are supposed to be downward-compatible with SATA II, but some may need a jumper installed to work.
3) Drive size: Presumably the Pal compares the number of sectors to some fixed value in its firmware, and if the drive is over the limit the Pal won't use it. It's likely that not all "1 TB" drives are precisely equal in size, so some may be over this unknown limit.
4) Power requirement: Seems unlikely, but it is possible the Pal just can't supply enough current to operate some drives. 7200 RPM drives would require more power than 5400 RPM drives.

Perhaps we should work to compose a more comprehensive database, not only of drives known to work but also of drives known not to work in the Pal. The list in post 1 is getting pretty dated.
post #16820 of 18096
I recall someone successfully did try 1TB drive with AF recently (check last posts about drives), while I'm thinking the drive does support translation from 4K sector's size to old style 512 bytes, as the DVR's OS-21 require.

Critical number of sectors as max size ? That would be true.
If I would have time I will try to find the exactly limit. But so far as I've seen WDC and Seagate (who else ?) manufacturing consumer's grade drives with practically same number of sectors.
post #16821 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Well I think I am confused. You see I had a Seagate drive that was 1 TB and it would not work in the DTVPAL. I moved it to my computer and it works fine. I sent PSMITH some stats on the drive from HDPARM and no issues turned up with it.

So it is not true that any drive works internally. I think others had issues with drives not working too.

I was asking the question because the issue seemed to be power related. Of course I could pull the 1 TB Seagate drive out of my PC and put it in an enclosure and see if works that way which would prove that using an external enclosure will or will not make more drives available.
You should sent it to me for checks ... duh...
Quoting someone post:
Quote:
EAVS is the first generation of SATA II Caviar Green with 16MB cache,
EARS is the second generation SATA II Caviar Green with 64MB and 4K sectors (Advanced Format) and
EARX is the third generation of Caviar Green with SATA III, 64MB cache and 4K sectors.
-- 3 Gbps, sector size 512 bytes --
EAVS
--- 3 Gbps, AF: sector size 4 KB ---
EARS -"R": 64 MB cashe
---- 6 Gbps ---
EARX
EZRX
AZRX
EUCX - "C":16 MB cache
AUDX - "D": 32 MB cache

Here is WDC web page: http://support.wdc.com/product/install.asp?groupid=608
.
Going with the models above, you could try a lot of different devices of 0.5 or.75 or 1 TB sizes.
.
Edited by P Smith - 5/3/13 at 9:38am
post #16822 of 18096
No need to go back and see what went wrong but the drive I bought was Seagate ST31000VM002 1TB spin point drive which is designed specifically for DVRs. The DTVPAL would not recognize it at all. Could not see it or format it. I put it in my PC and had NO issues.

So there are some drives out there that the DTVPAL will not play nicely with at least as internal drives. So I would not assume ALL 1 TB drives will work. Since I am now connecting to my DTVPALS (YES PLURAL AS PSMITH JUST FIXED my first born) with external enclosures I just thought it might alleviate the issues with some drives. I guess the only way to know is to try other drives.
post #16823 of 18096
Bit confused on that model #. I found an ST31000322CS and an ST1000VM002 at Seagate's web site, but no ST31000VM002. The ST31000322CS is listed in post 1, so we know it works; since yours isn't working, it's probably the ST1000VM002.

Unfortunately Seagate's specs don't show the exact number of sectors like WD's specs do, so there's no way for me to tell whether the 1000VM002 has more sectors than the 31000322CS or WD 1 TB drives.

Anyway, both have reasonable power requirements, so I doubt power is the issue. The main differences are the cache and the SATA interface speed. The 31000322CS had SATA II and an 8MB cache, while the 1000VM002 has SATA III and a 64MB cache. Can't see why the cache would matter though.

(Actually Seagate's Web site is confusing: one page lists the 1000VM002 as a SATA II drive (3 GB/s) but their .PDF data sheet lists it as a SATA III drive (6 GB/s). I'm assuming the latter.)

Perhaps the SATA interface isn't negotiating downward to SATA II. If it's the SATA interface I don't think an external enclosure will help, since you'll still be connecting via the Pal's SATA interface (only with a longer cable).

Couldn't find anything about jumper settings for the 1000VM002, but the 31000322CS had a 4-pin jumper block. The two outer pins could be jumpered to force the drive to SATA I mode. Perhaps the 1000VM002 has a similar jumper block to force SATA II mode?
post #16824 of 18096
LenL could tell us Max LBA for the drive, it should be printed on a label ...

Definitely cache size is not the culprit; a negotiation [of interface speed down] shouldn't be an issue too - all drives doing that.

Searching Internet ,,,
ST31000322CS : 1,953,525,168 sectors
ST1000VM002 : 1,953,525,168

ST31000VM002 (it's exist on Asia market only - perhaps locked down to 3 Gbps version. LenL probably get the one, with no data on a label but some Chinese letters)
.
Edited by P Smith - 5/3/13 at 1:08pm
post #16825 of 18096
Thanks for clarifying. I did get a few hits on ST31000VM002, but except for LenL's own post I couldn't read them wink.gif

Both of the others are exactly the same size. The WD drives are identical in size too, so size isn't the issue (unless the Asian ST31000VM002 is different). An external enclosure is probably worth a try, just on the off-chance it works. Even if it doesn't help LenL can still mount the Pal's original drive externally.

As for the interface speed, maybe there's a jumper already installed (forcing it down to SATA I) that needs to be removed? Troubleshooting is pretty much guesswork at this point.
post #16826 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Thanks for clarifying. I did get a few hits on ST31000VM002, but except for LenL's own post I couldn't read them wink.gif

Both of the others are exactly the same size. The WD drives are identical in size too, so size isn't the issue (unless the Asian ST31000VM002 is different). An external enclosure is probably worth a try, just on the off-chance it works. Even if it doesn't help LenL can still mount the Pal's original drive externally.

As for the interface speed, maybe there's a jumper already installed (forcing it down to SATA I) that needs to be removed? Troubleshooting is pretty much guesswork at this point.

I will verify the model number etc.....
post #16827 of 18096
If there is no info on label, you could use small program ( VCR446Free.zip 601k .zip file ) to obtain Max LBA and other SMART values.

A couple remarks to install (actually it's just does copy files to your folder) - there are unreadable notes and buttons (all are "????")
- on first screen you do select/create a folder, at right of current path is a button "Browse"
- next screen has two buttons :OK and Cancel, left is OK

If you will post questions, results, just press Alt+PrntScrn buttons, copy and paste into MSPaint, save as PNG and attach to your post.
.

.
Edited by P Smith - 5/4/13 at 8:53am
post #16828 of 18096
I have the manual with all the info you could possibly want. It is the Seagate ST1000VM002 drive. No jumpers are being used.

ST1000VM002.pdf 316k .pdf file
post #16829 of 18096
Better have something about the particular drive. SMART and Scan would be proper info to post if we should discuss the your negative experience with the drive.
post #16830 of 18096
FINALLY, got my psip time to be close to correct. Now only about 4 seconds fast. I tried even going to having one channel at a time in hopes of getting one to give the correct time, but all were 1 minute and 20 second fast. By chance I re tuned using the "add a channel" 6-3-2-2 i think.I had the old original digital channel numbers written down and when I got to it it would show the corrected number, but it was on a different frequency I believe. I used these numbers and the next day the clock was only 4 seconds fast. I see if it drifts. This also corrected a drop out problem on my Dish Network satellite. I did the manual tune on it and the drop outs on the local -1 stations was fixed. Don't know why both tuners seamed to tune to the frequencies it they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

If you are exactly one hour off, make sure you are set to the correct time zone and whether you are observing DST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I had the same thing happen to one of my two Pals. It was the one I hadn't reset after TVGoS went away. I did another double reboot and it has kept accurate time for the last week and a half, but I'm keeping an eye on it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!