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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 581

post #17401 of 18096
I figure based on 20 Watts plugged in, in standby mode, 480 Watts per 24 hours, 10 cents per kWh, about 5 cents a day or $1.50 a month.
post #17402 of 18096
So with the recommended hard drive upgrade list on the first page so out of date, what's a good current 1TB drive to use?
post #17403 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmancini1 View Post

So with the recommended hard drive upgrade list on the first page so out of date, what's a good current 1TB drive to use?
I recall a few pages back an answer has been given, please read posts here for last month and you'll find the answer.
post #17404 of 18096
A Question for P Smith:
When looking at the Diognostics screen where you see the PSIP stations and their time,
the DVR shows each station as + or - the time.
What is it basing this on, now that there is no TVGOS???
post #17405 of 18096
The DTVPal calculates the time using the data transmitted by all your local stations. The +/- is how much a single channel deviates from the DTVPal's calculated time. If you have a channel that yuo know is dead on that number * -1 is the DTVPal clock error.
post #17406 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

The DTVPal calculates the time using the data transmitted by all your local stations. The +/- is how much a single channel deviates from the DTVPal's calculated time. If you have a channel that yuo know is dead on that number * -1 is the DTVPal clock error.
I know all this. I just wondered what the DVR is using as the source for the correct time
when it shows each station's deviation from it.
post #17407 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

I know all this. I just wondered what the DVR is using as the source for the correct time
when it shows each station's deviation from it.
Sorry, I can't answer to the question; perhaps observations of the Diag screen from many places would reveal it.
post #17408 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

The DTVPal calculates the time using the data transmitted by all your local stations. The +/- is how much a single channel deviates from the DTVPal's calculated time. If you have a channel that yuo know is dead on that number * -1 is the DTVPal clock error.
I know all this. I just wondered what the DVR is using as the source for the correct time when it shows each station's deviation from it.
The Pal assumes its own clock is "correct" for the purpose of this screen. But exactly how it calculates that value has always been somewhat of a mystery.

We do know the Pal's clock can run in two modes: free-running or synchronized to the station average. If you set the clock manually, it's in free-running mode (and will gain ~8 seconds/day). If you do two consecutive reboots, it's synchronized to the station average (the best choice for most users). But at this point it gets rather murky.

The latest firmware supposedly uses a "weighted average" of the various stations it has in its memory. We've generally speculated that it gives lower weights to stations that haven't been received recently, or whose times are very different from other stations. There's a 4-nibble (2-byte) hex value displayed next to each station, with each nibble in the range 0-4. We think this value may be used to calculate the weights for averaging, but none of us has been able to figure out the precise details.
post #17409 of 18096
Total number of stations 9

5 stations with no error
2 stations with -16 error
1 station with +124 error
1 station with +62 error
add them up +154 then divide by 9 and get +17.1111

DTVPal error +18 seconds
Edited by Pete-N2 - 9/12/13 at 11:48am
post #17410 of 18096
I'm assuming Pete-N2 calculated his Pal's +18 second clock error with respect to an independent source, such as a cell phone clock.

My guess is that his Pal is giving the most weight to the 5 stations that agree. Which makes sense: there are 2 stations with earlier times and 2 with later times, so the Pal syncs to the 5 in the middle.

It's also possible that the vaunted "weighted average" is nothing more than a simple median.
post #17411 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I'm assuming Pete-N2 calculated his Pal's +18 second clock error with respect to an independent source, such as a cell phone clock.

http://www.time.gov/widget.html on an andriod tablet...
post #17412 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmancini1 View Post

So with the recommended hard drive upgrade list on the first page so out of date, what's a good current 1TB drive to use?

If you are replacing the drive I would recommend you go external and then you don't have to worry about drives preset for spinning down. Just have to get an enclosure that powers the drive so it does not spin down. By taking the drive out of the box your PAL will run a lot cooler.

If you decide to install the drive internally and it isn't one of the ones we have tested then you might run into spin down issues.
post #17413 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I recall a few pages back an answer has been given, please read posts here for last month and you'll find the answer.

Time flies! It was back in May, starting around page 561. I haven't seen much discussion on this recently. Just thought someone might have some new info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

If you are replacing the drive I would recommend you go external and then you don't have to worry about drives preset for spinning down. Just have to get an enclosure that powers the drive so it does not spin down. By taking the drive out of the box your PAL will run a lot cooler.

If you decide to install the drive internally and it isn't one of the ones we have tested then you might run into spin down issues.

Thanks. I was hoping to not go external. Both my PALs run cool with the stock drive. Will the 1TB drive generate more heat and create more of a problem?
I'm looking into WD AV-GP drives and the only one on newegg for example is the WD10EURX but it's SATA-III. Is it better to use a II internally?
I thought I had read to use a III you might have to set a jumper or software switch. Or is the spin down issue a bigger deal?
I also saw something about using a 2.5" drive internally. Ugh. Too many options!
post #17414 of 18096
I have scrolled through the Diagnostics options and didn't see a list of PSIP stations or the +- times referenced a few posts above. I wanted to check how accurate the stations were. After we lost TVGOS, I was setting the clock manually and dealing with the time gain. Finally, I did the recommended 2 soft reboots and the clock seems to have settled in. But I'd sure like to find that diagnostic screen. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
post #17415 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

I have scrolled through the Diagnostics options and didn't see a list of PSIP stations or the +- times referenced a few posts above. I wanted to check how accurate the stations were. After we lost TVGOS, I was setting the clock manually and dealing with the time gain. Finally, I did the recommended 2 soft reboots and the clock seems to have settled in. But I'd sure like to find that diagnostic screen. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

See this post. Make sure you use the Page Dn/Up buttons on the remote, top right side above the Guide button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

On the remote, press Menu, 3, 2, 6; then Page Dn to scroll through the info (Page Up to scroll back of course). Don't select the options on the right side of the screen (except of course Done when finished). Refer to Pete-N2's screenshot to see what it looks like. If you have 19+ elements the 19th will be partly cut off and you won't see any more after it.

The Ident's are transport stream IDs. You'll have to consult http://rabbitears.info to figure out which stations they correspond to. Times are in GMT as mentioned previously
post #17416 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmancini1 View Post

Time flies! It was back in May, starting around page 561. I haven't seen much discussion on this recently. Just thought someone might have some new info.
Thanks. I was hoping to not go external. Both my PALs run cool with the stock drive. Will the 1TB drive generate more heat and create more of a problem?
I'm looking into WD AV-GP drives and the only one on newegg for example is the WD10EURX but it's SATA-III. Is it better to use a II internally?
I thought I had read to use a III you might have to set a jumper or software switch. Or is the spin down issue a bigger deal?
I also saw something about using a 2.5" drive internally. Ugh. Too many options!
When I upgraded I used the 2.5 inch drive P Smith had evaluated:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145584
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=HTS541010A9E680

and the following bracket:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BH3Z8E/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and it was basically plug and play. The hardest part was breaking into the DTVPal. I have been using the upgraded DTVPal for about three weeks now have not had any problems. I have had a least one instance where I was recording two programs and playing back a third.

If you choose a different bracket make sure you get one where the drive mounts to the rear of the 3.5" foot print so that the connectors are in the same place. If you don't you may have to add about an inch to the length of the power supply cable - four wires. Mounting kits like:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817990022

don't work because that are not long enough. They are only the length of a 2.5" drive.
post #17417 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt 
On the remote, press Menu, 3, 2, 6; then Page Dn to scroll through the info (Page Up to scroll back of course). Don't select the options on the right side of the screen (except of course Done when finished). Refer to Pete-N2's screenshot to see what it looks like. If you have 19+ elements the 19th will be partly cut off and you won't see any more after it.

The Ident's are transport stream IDs. You'll have to consult http://rabbitears.info to figure out which stations they correspond to. Times are in GMT as mentioned previously.

OK. I found the data. It says there are 31 events but I only have 7 stations in my channel list so have no idea how the Pal is pulling in all that into. Looked at all the menu items over at rabbitears but haven't been able to find the Idents. Times are all over the place but somehow the Pal is sorting things out pretty well . . .
post #17418 of 18096
I googled TSID rabbit, here is your link:

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=tsid

Can you get a screen shot of the screen that says 31 events?
post #17419 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

I googled TSID rabbit, here is your link:

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=tsid

Can you get a screen shot of the screen that says 31 events?

Go it! Thanks. First off, it said '31 elements' NOT '31 events'. My bad memory. I counted and there were 19 entries but only one of them - next to last - was a station that I get locally. Some of the time skews on the ones listed were pretty outrageous. This was an exercise in futility because 99% of the info is irrelevant to my local stations.
post #17420 of 18096
I have a CM7000 DVR but am posting here because this seems to be the more used thread for these identical boxes - hope that's ok and the amount of detail I'm giving is ok (I am a rookie...).

We've had the machine for over 3 years and it's been great (other than the little issues we all would have loved to have seen fixed with a firmware upgrade). However, as of last week, it started constantly freezing for up to a minute when it is doing most functions - changing channel, returning to the list of recorded files after stopping playback, deleting a recording. It will freeze up, normally with a black screen, then will eventually find the picture, but just a frozen picture, then it will eventually find the channel and be fine until we change channel, etc. It's also clear that it's freezing up when it starts a second recording (eg if I'm recording something from 8-9 pm and start something at 8:30 pm), because there is a skip on the file that was already recording. While it is frozen, it still receives signal from the remote (the green light on the front flashes for each press of the remote), but nothing happens. Sometimes it will cue these signals up, sometimes it won't.

It is happening with all channels and once it has found the channel, the signal strength is very high, so it's not that it's a weak signal. I also plugged the antenna cable directly into the TV and checked the TV signal with analogue pass through and it's all fine, so it's definitely the PVR. I have done a soft and hard reboot and nothing changed. We have not changed anything about our setup (eg moving the antenna, adding new components, changing cabling, etc).

I contacted CM support and they suggested doing a factory reset and re-formatting the drive - did both of those and no dice. I opened the case up using the super helpful instructions in this forum (thanks!) and while there was a bit of dust, it was nothing crazy and I'd be very surprised if that was causing it.

I'm assuming my next step is to replace the HDD (give me a chance to upgrade anyway) or else I'm looking at something serious like a dying tuner...? I've read through the forum as much as I can and have seen that I should be able to get any 80Gb-1Tb drive, as long as it's 3.5" (I don't want to try the mods to do a 2.5"); 5400 RPM; SATA I or II (or III that can be jumpered down). I've looked at our local retailers and none sell any of the drives that are referenced on the first page of the forum or the ones people have mentioned throughout. So, I wondered if anyone had any luck with:

Western Digital WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN
Western Digital WDBABC0010BNC-NRSN or
Western Digital WD10EZRX

Appreciate any help!
post #17421 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Go it! Thanks. First off, it said '31 elements' NOT '31 events'. My bad memory. I counted and there were 19 entries but only one of them - next to last - was a station that I get locally. Some of the time skews on the ones listed were pretty outrageous. This was an exercise in futility because 99% of the info is irrelevant to my local stations.
From post #17417 (20 hours ago)
If you have 19+ elements the 19th will be partly cut off and you won't see any more after it.

Here is the basic flow as I understand it:

When you reset a DTVPal stations are added to the diagnostic screen in RF Channel order - low to high
As new stations are found they are added to the top of the list.
Hiding them does not remove them from the diagnostics screen (or time calculations)
Warm boots (or power failures) cause the station order to reverse
As new stations are found they are added to the top of the list.
The typical DTVPal internal clock gains 8 seconds a day
If a station has not been received within a 24 hour period it's calculated time will gain about 8 seconds
It has not been determined if/when a distant station is removed from the time calculations

If you want to see the diagnostics for the other stations, do a warm boot.
post #17422 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

If you want to see the diagnostics for the other stations, do a warm boot.

Thanks for all the info but not going to do any reboots unless I have to now that the clock finally seems stabilized.
Edited by golinux - 9/14/13 at 3:03pm
post #17423 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

Thanks for all the info but not going to do any reboots unless I have to now that the clock finally seems stabilized.
Also, remember that if you do reboot, always reboot a second time to lock the clock to PSIP time.
post #17424 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Also, remember that if you do reboot, always reboot a second time to lock the clock to PSIP time.

Yup, That's how I got the time stabilized. Reboots make me nervous. They are so slow I keep worrying it's going to get stuck on the 'loading please wait' screen'. Too stressful!
post #17425 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

(...) Reboots make me nervous. They are so slow I keep worrying it's going to get stuck on the 'loading please wait' screen'. Too stressful!
I agree with you on that. smile.gif
post #17426 of 18096
I just stopped by the Rovi Facebook page and was delighted to see folks still pounding them for discontinuing TVGOS (not that it's gonna do any good but I like to see the 'bad' guy getting a very public earful after all these months).
post #17427 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Also, remember that if you do reboot, always reboot a second time to lock the clock to PSIP time.
It is my understanding that this process is only necessary after factory reset.
post #17428 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

It is my understanding that this process is only necessary after factory reset.

I've never done a factory reset. I had to do two reboots after I had manually reset the clock and become a victim of the +8 seconds a day quirk..
post #17429 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

It is my understanding that this process is only necessary after factory reset.
Rebooting the DVR unlocks the clock from the PSIP data.
Rebooting a second time locks it again.
You can easily test this by rebooting once, then watch the clock start gaining eight seconds per day.
post #17430 of 18096
Is a power failure the same as a reboot?
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