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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 583

post #17461 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Good. That's what I thought.

Keep in mind while the two are recording you can't watch a third show live (you only have 2 tuners). However, you can play a previously recorded show.
post #17462 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell_ View Post

Keep in mind while the two are recording you can't watch a third show live (you only have 2 tuners). However, you can play a previously recorded show.
You can watch a third show live off of your TV's tuner. I often do this.
post #17463 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

You can watch a third show live off of your TV's tuner. I often do this.

Yes; just put the Pal in standby with the power button. Both shows will record and you can watch something else on TV. (Of course, you won't be able to pause, skip commercials, etc.)

BTW, that brings up a question I've long wondered about: why did the DTVPal bother with that stupid "analog pass-through" button on the remote? My wife often hits that instead of the power switch, but as far as I can tell, it does exactly the same thing (except for the 10-second delay and the green light not turning off rolleyes.gif ).

True, RF is passed straight through from input to output as you'd expect, but all the non-RF outputs are shut off as well. The exact same thing happens in standby. What's the point? It looks like it was just an unthinking holdover from the Pal CECB.
post #17464 of 18096
Quote:
BTW, that brings up a question I've long wondered about: why did the DTVPal bother with that stupid "analog pass-through" button on the remote? My wife often hits that instead of the power switch, but as far as I can tell, it does exactly the same thing (except for the 10-second delay and the green light not turning off rolleyes.gif ).

True, RF is passed straight through from input to output as you'd expect, but all the non-RF outputs are shut off as well. The exact same thing happens in standby. What's the point? It looks like it was just an unthinking holdover from the Pal CECB.
Isn't that for old CRT TVs?
post #17465 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Isn't that for old CRT TVs?
A CRT TV doesn't have to be analog...
post #17466 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Yes; just put the Pal in standby with the power button. Both shows will record and you can watch something else on TV. (Of course, you won't be able to pause, skip commercials, etc.)

Good tip....but this is only true if you choose to split the signal to the PALDVR and feed your TV. If you have strong OTA reception this is OK but this can be a problem where you are dealing with stations you want to record with marginal signal strength. Not everyone can or is willing to give up reception quality.
post #17467 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Good tip....but this is only true if you choose to split the signal to the PALDVR and feed your TV. If you have strong OTA reception this is OK but this can be a problem where you are dealing with stations you want to record with marginal signal strength. Not everyone can or is willing to give up reception quality.
I've been doing that since 2008 with no problems. cool.gif
post #17468 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Yes; just put the Pal in standby with the power button. Both shows will record and you can watch something else on TV. (Of course, you won't be able to pause, skip commercials, etc.)

Good tip....but this is only true if you choose to split the signal to the PALDVR and feed your TV.
I think the DVR has some booster circuitry, and the passthrough is just about as strong as a straight input from the antenna would be.  This has been discussed before IIRC.
post #17469 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

I think the DVR has some booster circuitry, and the passthrough is just about as strong as a straight input from the antenna would be.  This has been discussed before IIRC.

Huh? What on earth are you talking about? We are talking about 2 different things.
post #17470 of 18096
Folks at noon today I was setting up my 2 PALDVRS for tonight's recordings and noticed the clocks on both of them are now off an hour (early). Am I the only one to notice this or report it?
post #17471 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

I've been doing that since 2008 with no problems. cool.gif

AS I said for some it will be no problem but for others it will be. I have several antennas installed and I can only do this with one of them.
post #17472 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Folks at noon today I was setting up my 2 PALDVRS for tonight's recordings and noticed the clocks on both of them are now off an hour (early). Am I the only one to notice this or report it?

Same here in NE Wisconsin.
post #17473 of 18096
Me too, an hour slow!
post #17474 of 18096
One hour off here in Minneapolis/St. Paul as well on both my Dish DtvPal and my Channel Master CM-7000.

I did a factory reset on the CM-7000 for the heck of it - no help.

Had to set the time zone from central to eastern to get guide and time to sync.

Obviously something is amiss...
Edited by EeeCeeTee - 10/3/13 at 10:38am
post #17475 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Folks at noon today I was setting up my 2 PALDVRS for tonight's recordings and noticed the clocks on both of them are now off an hour (early). Am I the only one to notice this or report it?

I have probably posted on this before here but a quick(ish) summary.

The system time table in the PSIP data includes information to control the transition into and out of DST. There are three items: DS_status, DS_dayofmonth, and DS_hour.

Normally DS_dayofmonth and DS_hour are set to zero but one month prior to the transition they are set to the values for the transition. Once the entire broadcast area (it could span more than one time zone) has passed through the transition time, DS_status changes and DS_dayofmonth and DS_hour are set to zero again.

You might have noticed that there is no information on which month the transition happens in and this is the source of the problem. Many stations have set the DS_dayofmonth and DS_hour (to 3 and 2) one day early. The receiver sees this and assumes that now is the time for the transition. There is nothing you can do except complain.

I have complained repeatedly both to the stations and the FCC. This spring I actually got a call back from the FCC but nothing has happened. I have also requested that the ATSC standards organization clarify the standard. One of the comments I received from one station is that nobody complains about this. (I recently purchased a new TV to replace my old particle accelerator and if it is any indication, I can see why. It provides no guide data, no current time or even program descriptions. It does display the program title and start and end times. But it ignores DST completely.)

I have sent my twice a year whines to the TV stations but the FCC web site is down for a while. I suggest that anyone experiencing this problem complain as well.

At midnight tonight the time will go back to normal.

Hidden in this is how the DTVPal DVR decides when the DST transition happens. Some local (DFW) stations got it right but most got it wrong so it is probably some sort of voting system.

Tomorrow, dig down the menus to the diagnostics. For each station you will see a current time and a line that says "next". I think that is when the next transition is supposed to happen. I haven't watched that through a DST change without TVGOS before so this will be new.
post #17476 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Folks at noon today I was setting up my 2 PALDVRS for tonight's recordings and noticed the clocks on both of them are now off an hour (early). Am I the only one to notice this or report it?
Here we go again. It is the time change bug again. Crap, I didn't check my timers since Monday night. frown.gif
Edited by phildaant - 10/3/13 at 10:48am
post #17477 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeCeeTee View Post

One hour off here in Minneapolis/St. Paul as well on both my Dish DtvPal and my Channel Master CM-7000.

I did a factory reset on the CM-7000 for the heck of it - no help.

Had to set the time zone from central to eastern to get guide and time to sync.
Same here. As schultdw stated above, it will self correct in time.
post #17478 of 18096
So this is a PSIP issue? It's new to me as the DST changes always worked OK when the TV Guide data was alive.
post #17479 of 18096
So your Pal's clocks "fell back?" DST ends Nov. 3; I wonder if some stations flipped off the DST flag this AM (Oct. 3) by mistake, fooling the Pal into switching back to standard time. Or it could just be a weird manifestation of the Pal's DST bugs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

I think the DVR has some booster circuitry, and the pass-through is just about as strong as a straight input from the antenna would be.  This has been discussed before IIRC.

Huh? What on earth are you talking about? We are talking about 2 different things.

In the OP's scenario (recording 2 channels and watching a 3rd) you don't need to split the antenna signal. Just connect the antenna to the Pal's RF input, and connect the Pal's RF output to the TV. In my experience, RF has always passed through the Pal without noticeable loss when it's in standby. (Remember, the Pal can still record 1 or 2 channels even in standby.)

But when the Pal is on, the RF output is the channel 3 or 4 signal from the Pal's RF modulator. So if you want to pass the antenna signal to a TV or other device even when the Pal is on, you'd have to split it, which does weaken it (unless the splitter is itself amplified). You might want to do this if your TV has a picture-in-picture function or you have a second DVR.
post #17480 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeCeeTee View Post

So this is a PSIP issue? It's new to me as the DST changes always worked OK when the TV Guide data was alive.

I still have a CM7000 CECB and this has been a regular problem for it. Not as big a problem as having recording timers fire at the wrong time but still a problem.

This problem has been around for a while. See this from 2008: http://sbe36.org/2008/10/have-a-peek-at-your-psip/
post #17481 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Isn't that for old CRT TVs?
A CRT TV doesn't have to be analog...
CRT or not, the idea behind "analog pass-through" was to let the viewer watch analog TV stations without disconnecting the Pal, since the Pal doesn't have an analog tuner. Several low-power TV stations were still broadcasting in analog when the Pal was being sold. (Most have since switched, but we do still have one analog station in DFW!)

Pass-through just passes the RF input signal through to the output, so you can watch an analog station with your TV's own tuner. It really should be called "RF pass-through" since all RF signals are passed through, not just analog ones (thus, the ability to watch a 3rd digital station with your TV tuner while recording 2 other stations with the Pal).

But what's puzzled me is, why a separate button, since putting the Pal in standby (i.e., turning it "off" although recordings can still occur) also passes the RF input through to the output?

That's what many CECBs did. Just turn it off to watch analog stations; on to watch digital ones. But the Pal CECB had the same "analog pass-through" button as the DVR, and it didn't really make sense there either.

I could understand having a separate button if it worked differently: say, passing the RF input through but leaving the composite, component, HDMI, and audio outputs active, unlike standby which turns them off. But the Pal doesn't do this: analog pass-through works exactly like standby as far as I can tell.

It's clearly no big deal. Just seems like an odd quirk in the design.
post #17482 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

It's clearly no big deal. Just seems like an odd quirk in the design.
I agree.
post #17483 of 18096
I was just checking the ATSC web site and they issued a revision in August to the A/65 standard which covers PSIP data with Annex A describing the DST requirements. I was a bit surprised because they had said they would keep me updated.

There is a very slight revision to Annex A. Although the language is tortured and a bit unclear, it is an attempt to resolve this problem.

The squeaky wheel does sometimes get a little grease.
post #17484 of 18096
Yes but NADA happened!
post #17485 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Huh? What on earth are you talking about? We are talking about 2 different things.
Sorry for being terse; I was explaining that there's no need to split the signal and thus no need to boost it.  JHBrandt's cleared that up in the meantime.
post #17486 of 18096
No Problem. I learned something to day which at my age is a good thing! I took out my 3 way splitter and replaced it with a 2 way and then sent the feed from one of my PALDVRs to my Samsung TV and magic happened.

I could not detect any improvement or negative impact on reception for my TV or DVRs. I would have assumed by replacing the 3 way splitter with a 2 way it should help reception some.
post #17487 of 18096
I do not have recurring timers so I think from what I see with the clock being off an hour and the guide being off an hour that the scheduled recordings may actually work for tonight.
post #17488 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeCeeTee View Post

One hour off here in Minneapolis/St. Paul as well on both my Dish DtvPal and my Channel Master CM-7000.

I did a factory reset on the CM-7000 for the heck of it - no help.

Had to set the time zone from central to eastern to get guide and time to sync.

Obviously something is amiss...
I'm in the same boat. Does anyone know to set the Pal to the Bermuda time zone ? biggrin.gif
Just kidding..I did reset my time but the PSIP guide is still off by an hour.
post #17489 of 18096
It should correct itself over night.
post #17490 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

It should correct itself over night.
And not in 2.7 hours with my recordings starting at 8:00 PM PDT. [sighs] frown.gif
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