or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 591

post #17701 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonDrm View Post

I am out of room on my DTV Pal,, and was thinking of hooking up my extra one,, but, will I lose all my recordings on my original Pal? My notes say " If you reformat the HD, you will lose all your recordings"... will I have to reformat the Pal when I hook up the first DVR again? I know you don't lose recordings from just having it unplugged for extended times,,, but when I reconnect it to the antenna, will that cause me to lose my recordings?
As long as you do not choose Format in the menu, you will not lose your recordings.
Even going completely through the setup will not delete your recordings.
The only way your recordings can be lost is if you delete them, or format the drive.
post #17702 of 18096
Chuck44,,, Thank You!
post #17703 of 18096
Are the recordings saved on the hard drive from one DTVPal playable when connected to another DTVPal unit?
post #17704 of 18096
yes
they are just a copy of OTA sub-stream/mux - PIDs of one program/channel; not encrypted at all
post #17705 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

yes
they are just a copy of OTA sub-stream/mux - PIDs of one program/channel; not encrypted at all
What about other similiar boxes like ChannelMaster's? Too bad the HDDs are encrypted to use in computers and other devices. frown.gif
post #17706 of 18096
The distinction between encryption and using a proprietary filesystem is moot, as they both achieve the same end result: you can't access the recordings from other devices.
post #17707 of 18096
well, I would mind to point to TiVo proprietary file system, to TiVo community's inventions what expanded access to stored data and XX century approach of TiVo company to not prosecute the endeavor
post #17708 of 18096
I've had the machine for nearly 4 years and it's been great until recently. It started to constantly freeze up after a few minutes of watching TV.

I opened the case and took out the hard drive, and checked for errors using Victoria but the program found no errors. I've done a factory reset and re-formatted the drive, and that did not improve the performance. I then tried replacing the hard drive with a Western Digital WD AV-GP 500GB hard drive, and it appears to increased the time it takes to freeze to about 5 to 10 minutes (instead of one to two minutes with the original hard drive), but in the end it did not help since the unit is still freezing.

While it is frozen, it still receives signal from the remote (the green light on the front flashes for each press of the remote), but nothing happens. I'm am able to soft reset by holding down the power button on the remote, and the unit will reset.

When I disconnect the hard drive and turn on the unit, I can watch Live TV without any problems and the unit does not freeze. I've got a good signal from channels, so it doesn't look like there's a problem with the tuner.

I'm on firmware F08.

I'm not sure what to look at next. Does anyone have any suggestions? I really wish that swapping the hard drive would have fixed it, but it is still freezing.

Appreciate any help!
post #17709 of 18096
Would you post SMART values for both drives ?
Edited by P Smith - 11/25/13 at 1:14am
post #17710 of 18096
KDODH,

Verify that the fan is working. Sounds like it might be a heat build up issue.
post #17711 of 18096
I am having a very similar problem, but I have not swapped out the hard drive yet. I did remove the hard drive and made sure the acoustics were correct. I have to add that I have a 1-TB drive in place. I did clean out all the dust and made sure the fan was working.

I get good signals - even 100%, but am getting pixies. I now suspect overdrive, and my next step might be to add some attenuation to the DTVPal input. I have removed all tropo-channels that might be feeding bogus info.

I probably will put back the old 250-GB drive to see what that does. I hope to remember to capture the SMART info ( for both drives ) while in this process. I also hope to remember all the tips I have read here in the past. I did try unplugging for a couple of hours.
post #17712 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Would you post SMART values for both drives ?

Using Victoria, I get the following message for both drives: "Get S.M.A.R.T. command... Error reading S.M.A.R.T!" so I guess I must be doing something wrong. What do you suggest to get SMART values? I use a Windows machine.

Thanks for your help.
post #17713 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

KDODH,

Verify that the fan is working. Sounds like it might be a heat build up issue.

Len L,

I thought the fan was working and I could hear it, but when i looked at it closely it did not look like it was moving very fast. So I opened up the case and moved the hard drive bracket away from the rest of the board. I plugged the hard drive back in and powered up., while leaving the case open, to minimize the chance for heat buildup.

So far, It has been running over 80 minutes without freezing and its still going! This is the longest its run since I encountered this problem. I guess I should replace the fan now and try it with the case closed. Can you suggest a replacement fan? (name/model or link would be super helpful. )

Thanks!

UPDATE: After running over 2 hours with the case open and on the same channel without freezing, I decided to set up some recordings for overnight. I browsed through the guide and selected some recordings, but then the unit froze when I was in the program guide. (Oh no!) I waited for 5 minutes to see if it would unfreeze, but no luck. So I had to hold down the power to soft reset.

So if heat is the issue and its still freezing with the case wide open, what recourse do I have? Is the unit permanently damaged?
Edited by kdodh - 11/25/13 at 8:30pm
post #17714 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdodh View Post

Using Victoria, I get the following message for both drives: "Get S.M.A.R.T. command... Error reading S.M.A.R.T!" so I guess I must be doing something wrong. What do you suggest to get SMART values? I use a Windows machine.

Thanks for your help.


Can you suggest a replacement fan? (name/model or link would be super helpful. )
I saw many different programs in Internet what monitoring HDD's health, taking SMART values.
I would try to load MHDD from CD or Linux (say, Ubuntu from bootable CD) to cut Windows from the path.

I posted a picture of the fan in the thread, there is full info.
post #17715 of 18096
Sorry, I did look for the fan post, but I couldn't find it.
post #17716 of 18096
post #17717 of 18096
post #17718 of 18096
I remembered the picture, but I didn't remember the post with the 800 number...


On a totally different subject, P Smith, any thoughts on advance format disks and the DTVPal?
post #17719 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

...
On a totally different subject, P Smith, any thoughts on advance format disks and the DTVPal?
Sorry, I missed - did you mean format to eliminate bad sectors or that formatting [E*FS] of file system what TR-50 (same as DP501, ViPxxx) using ?
post #17720 of 18096
Newer disks use 4096 byte sectors with 512 byte emulation...
post #17721 of 18096
Ah, yeah - I did try one of these (I posted its model here a while ago ), works fine. Mfgs making new models, so it's require constant testing latest models of HDD.
post #17722 of 18096
PALDVR Fan Issues,

I just want to point out for those of you who are having fan issues that your PALDVRs were running HOT or HOTTER than they should have been. As a consequence your hard drives and other internal components like CPU and capacitors may have been damaged or aged. Your units may be damaged or the operational life compromised.mad.gif

A good reason to:

a. Open those cases at least annually and clean and inspect the fan and get the dust out of the case.
b. Put the hard drive in an external enclosure and get rid of a major source of internal heat and at the same time allowing better air circulation and cooling inside the PALDVR case.smile.gif
post #17723 of 18096
I could not agree more. It is incrredibly easy and inexpesive to add an external HDD unit and an added benefit is that it is so darn easy to switch HDDs whenever you choose with an external drive. Quite frankly I don't understand why everyone does not make the switch. smile.gif
post #17724 of 18096
I agree with your agreement.

There is one thing I can say in defense of internal HDDs, though: you have to find someplace to put an external HDD, and if you have a Pal atop an old CRT-type TV (as one of mine is), you may not be comfortable leaving an external HDD up where it could be easily knocked off. Talk about "crashing" a drive!

But if an external HDD isn't practical, the next best option is to replace the power-hungry, stock internal HDD with a 2.5" model. (IIRC P Smith recommended a 1 TB Hitachi drive several posts back.) You'll need a mounting bracket, but it'll still reduce power consumption/heat production while improving airflow. Not as much as an external HDD, but close.
post #17725 of 18096
OK, I am convinced. I went through the ordeal of going to an external drive.

I verified that the 1TB drive worked OK with the cover off, but not connected to the Antenna. I had a Rosewill box and put the 1TB drive in it.
However, I found that the external box had an eSATA connector, but that the DTVPal box has a SATA connector. Fortunately, the Rosewill had a PCI bracket that had a female SATA connector on one side, and the eSATA connector on the other. This way, I could verify that the whole mess works - it does !!! Now I really need to get a cable with SATA on one end with eSATA on the other to make for a cleaner solution. They look to be about $3.50 on ebay. I'm not going to put things all back together until I get that cable.
post #17726 of 18096
My DTVPal DVR decided to format itself. Any way to recover?

I have a 1TB WD Green in there and it's been generally fine for years. Sometimes when I was down from 142 hours free at start to 3-4 hours left (yes, no matter how big your hard drive is, it's always mostly full), it would have problems playing a recently recorded show. This happened last night, so I deleted it. As I was experimenting, I tried to play some other corrupt show (I was keeping it under the idea that it would hold the bad sectors and avoid new recordings from being bad). It didn't play at all, so I did a soft reset and went to sleep. This morning, it recorded something. This afternoon, I went to watch some stuff before I ran out of space, and it now only has the one show from this morning and a lot of free space again. I guess it decided to format itself when it wouldn't play that corrupt recording. That's a very annoying behavior. Most of the shows were "protected" but they are all gone now.

Anyway, any tricks to "undo" this? I would imagine file recovery software doesn't work the same as it does on a Windows PC because we can't rebuild their proprietary file system.

It's kind of liberating to have removed this backlog of crap, but it's also annoying to have lost a few things that I was actually going to watch and aren't available via other methods vs. the other stuff I had for "maybe one day."

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
post #17727 of 18096
P Smith is our resident expert on the E* file system. Nothing is certain but I'd PM him and see if he'd be willing to try to recover your recordings.

BTW, I found it worthwhile to set up a second DVR for just this purpose. I use a PC but something cheap like a Homeworx might be good enough. If you have the $$ you could even try to pick up a second Pal on eBay.
post #17728 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

P Smith is our resident expert on the E* file system. Nothing is certain but I'd PM him and see if he'd be willing to try to recover your recordings.

BTW, I found it worthwhile to set up a second DVR for just this purpose. I use a PC but something cheap like a Homeworx might be good enough. If you have the $$ you could even try to pick up a second Pal on eBay.

The 2nd DVR for what purpose? Just having a backup recording going or recovering lost data? I suppose you mean having a 2nd DVR that doesn't have a proprietary internal format for both those reasons. I hadn't heard of the Homeworx, thanks! I might grab one while they're $33 on the Egg just to experiment.
post #17729 of 18096
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post

The 2nd DVR for what purpose? Just having a backup recording going or recovering lost data?
I've found just having a backup recording helps a lot. I've found it's way too easy for me to mess something up and miss a recording, but if I have a backup DVR recording the shows I'd regret missing, odds are pretty good that I won't mess them both up.
post #17730 of 18096
I decide to post my answer here, in case someone else would come to same question:
Quote:
I'm sorry to write this but all your recording are gone. The proprietary file system has no provision to recover formatted partitions.

I've been in same position and did extensive analysis of whole file system and found no way to recover.
Only one possible chance exists - when you encountering any small issue and all records are still in a list; at the moment is necessary to remove the drive (no reboot!) and start recovering process on PC; it could be simple as copy to new drive or make full backup (by a partition) to Windows PC ...

Now, I would recommend get an assessment of your drive: move it to PC, run MHDD (from bootable CD), do Scan+Remap, get SMART before and after the scan; at least do that under Windows by Victoria. Best way do that - using MHDD.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!