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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 9

post #241 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:26pm
I'm getting the "TV Guide" emblem in the top right of my guide, but there's no TVGOS digital being transmitted by my local CBS station.
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post #242 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:29pm
Does the guide tell you if the show is a repeat?

My old analog Panny E85H's TVGOS has a little R-> logo (an R with a curling arrow) that indicates if a show is a repeat. I know you can't do seasons or tell the 'pal DVR to skip repeats, but I think the info is there in the TVGOS signal (at least the analog version) and it would be nice if it showed up somewhere in the guide as you're deciding what to record.

From my experience, PSIP doesn't say if it's a repeat.
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post #243 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

I'm getting the "TV Guide" emblem in the top right of my guide, but there's no TVGOS digital being transmitted by my local CBS station.

There maybe another CBS that is sending it - maybe Baltimore ? Or Richmond ?
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post #244 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

I'm getting the "TV Guide" emblem in the top right of my guide, but there's no TVGOS digital being transmitted by my local CBS station.

According to this both WUSA in DC and WJZ in Baltimore transmit TVGOS. No TV Guide log in mine yet, but it has only been hooked up a few hours. Hopefully it will update overnight.
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post #245 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

As the digital transition occurs, expect to see much greater attention paid to PSIP. I expect not much less than 99% PSIP accuracy, after lets say next April. Give'em a little time to really button it down, once analog is history.

What would really be nice is the DTVPal DVR having a menu option to select which source to use for the guide; TVGOS or PSIP.

EXACTLY. After reality hits, which will only be on 2/18/09 for some, they'll learn to pay attention to their rice bowl. Then things will improve, PSIP wise. And maybe for AQ, as well.
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post #246 of 16892
12/24/08 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycruiser View Post

According to this both WUSA in DC and WJZ in Baltimore transmit TVGOS. No TV Guide log in mine yet, but it has only been hooked up a few hours. Hopefully it will update overnight.

Thank you. I notice "as of 12/17" - last time I checked, no TVGOS from our CBS affiliate. I should have checked again.

Now - is it really useful to select for TVG over PSIP?
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post #247 of 16892
12/24/08 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

This is an HDTV forum. Please keep on topic.

It is? Well where is the analog forum for the DTVPal DVR? I mean really, where can i go to discuss the DTVPal DVR? Will i get kicked out of here because i haven't purchased a HDTV set yet?
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post #248 of 16892
12/24/08 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

I'm getting the "TV Guide" emblem in the top right of my guide, but there's no TVGOS digital being transmitted by my local CBS station.

You may have to wait over night with the unit in standby to get TVGOS data. It may take several days to populate the full weeks data.

PSIP is constantly broadcast but they only download TVGOS a few times a day (I think 4) so let is set over night and see what happens. If it is like analog, and the manual sort of indicates it is, it will not update while you are watching.
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post #249 of 16892
12/24/08 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

You had indicated in the other thread that you had "tried every indoor antenna i could get my hands" on to try to get reception from your pre-DTVPal tuner. Is the antenna you are currently using amplified? If so, you may be providing TOO MUCH signal to the DTVPal DVR and overloading the input. I would suggest that you try running with something fairly omnidirectional, such as rabbit ears, before you give up.

Good luck!

Reg

Thx Reg, i am using rabbit ears. After playing with it a bit i will say this thing has excellent PQ. Better than any converter i have used. But i am getting the multipath problems big time. I think i will probably end up getting an outdoor directional antenna. I didn't really want to do that but looks like i might have to. It is a nice machine though i don't find it as user friendly as a Tivo. I found a spot for my antenna that is away from my TV and on my fireplace mantle. I get halfway decent reception there but still, the planes are killing me. Can't people vacation elsewhere, lol.
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post #250 of 16892
12/24/08 at 6:46pm
I have the DTVPal unit connected to an Outlaw 1070 receiver with the optical output and the video is connected by component cables to a Mitsubishi 1400 projector. I have noted the following audio problems and wonder if any one else has experienced similar problems. These were not present with my prior Samsung SIR T150 tuner. I'm not sure if the problems are with the tuner or the receiver.

1. There is a brief audible static pulse for a fraction of a second when changing channels for live TV, or when jumping forward and back in a recorded HD program.
2. The sound on commercials seems much louder than the sound on programs.
3. When I pause a recorded HD program, there is continuous static on all channels.
4. Dialog seems softer than usual on programs compared to other sound.

I am using the Dolby Digital setting, and the same problems appear in either Night or Standard mode. The receiver is detecting 5.1 channels, and all 5 speakers are working with discrete channels.

I'm also wondering how long it will take Harmon to list the codes for this new unit for my universal remote.
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post #251 of 16892
12/24/08 at 7:25pm
So far so good. I'm running a Terk indoor antenna on a splitter and the tuner is loving it.

My only complaints so far is that there are some artifacts when skipping, but that doesn't bother me. The more concerning of my complaints is that TVGOS isn't transmitting the guide for all 9 channels (missing NBC and CW). TVGOS also had some incorrect schedules in the future (i.e. COPS instead of the Cowboy game) and now it only has schedules for 1/3 of the channels 24 hours from now; and it doesn't have any schedules 36 hours from now. We'll see if TVGOS updates overnight.
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post #252 of 16892
12/24/08 at 8:22pm
What information, if any, is lost when the power is disconnected for a few minutes?  If I purchase a DTVPal DVR, I may need to unplug it and take it to another room to get firmware updates.

Are stored recordings kept or lost?  What about scheduled events: are they retained or must they be reentered?  What about guide information: does it survive the disconnection or does it have to be reloaded from the stations?

Thanks for any assistance.
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post #253 of 16892
12/24/08 at 8:28pm
Recorded events are kept, however guide information must be reloaded. You also don't have to redo your channel scan.
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post #254 of 16892
12/24/08 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoman View Post

I have the DTVPal unit connected to an Outlaw 1070 receiver with the optical output and the video is connected by component cables to a Mitsubishi 1400 projector. I have noted the following audio problems and wonder if any one else has experienced similar problems. These were not present with my prior Samsung SIR T150 tuner. I'm not sure if the problems are with the tuner or the receiver.

1. There is a brief audible static pulse for a fraction of a second when changing channels for live TV, or when jumping forward and back in a recorded HD program.
2. The sound on commercials seems much louder than the sound on programs.
3. When I pause a recorded HD program, there is continuous static on all channels.
4. Dialog seems softer than usual on programs compared to other sound.

I am using the Dolby Digital setting, and the same problems appear in either Night or Standard mode. The receiver is detecting 5.1 channels, and all 5 speakers are working with discrete channels.

I'm also wondering how long it will take Harmon to list the codes for this new unit for my universal remote.

On the remote - if it can do the Echostar 522 / 625 DVRs - it's ready now.(same remote)
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post #255 of 16892
12/24/08 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Recorded events are kept

OK, but what about schedule information for future events already entered but not yet reached or recorded?
Quote:


however guide information must be reloaded.

Thank you; that's disappointing but better to know than not to.
Quote:


You also don't have to redo your channel scan.

Thank you especially for that; I had the example of the Motorola DCH3416 DVR rented from Comcast in my mind and didn't think about the channel scan.
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post #256 of 16892
12/24/08 at 9:14pm
Other than having to redo the program list, is there any other good reason why you can't just "turn off = unplug" the DVR to add life to the HDD? This naturally assumes you don't have anything to record - duh! OR, it could be connected through a timer switch so you could record IF it would boot up and IF it did not loose the recording list [this could kill the whole idea!]

On the other hand, I had a whole bank of HDDs going back in the early 90s on some units we used for dialup update support and they lasted for 4 to 6 years going 24/7. Good old days!
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post #257 of 16892
12/24/08 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

EXACTLY. After reality hits, which will only be on 2/18/09 for some, they'll learn to pay attention to their rice bowl. Then things will improve, PSIP wise. And maybe for AQ, as well.

I sincerely hope so.
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post #258 of 16892
12/24/08 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

It is? Well where is the analog forum for the DTVPal DVR?

I have no idea.


Quote:


I mean really, where can i go to discuss the DTVPal DVR? Will i get kicked out of here because i haven't purchased a HDTV set yet?

Just keep the non-HD stuff to a minimum.
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post #259 of 16892
12/24/08 at 11:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDXTECH View Post

Other than having to redo the program list, is there any other good reason why you can't just "turn off = unplug" the DVR to add life to the HDD? This naturally assumes you don't have anything to record - duh! OR, it could be connected through a timer switch so you could record IF it would boot up and IF it did not loose the recording list [this could kill the whole idea!]

If DVR manufacturers felt that a true 'off' button would significantly extend product life, they would all offer that feature. With perhaps one exception, cable and satellite companies have standardized on DVR hardware and software designs that operate 24/7 (typically @ ~30 watts or $2.30/mo in VA).

The prevailing sentiment among manufactures seems to be that an 'off' button on a DVR is a recipe for failure. As taxing as it is on the hard drive to perform sustained writes of 3-4 MB/s throughout the day, constant power cycles and/or drive "spin downs" evidently present an even greater threat to DVR longevity.

Before long, I'm sure we'll see some members experiment with drive upgrades / replacements. If/when your hard drive fails, drive replacement could be a viable option. Until then, I would take the normal precautions. Make sure that your DVR has adequate ventilation and connect it to a functional surge protector. If your area is known to experience regular brown outs, you might also consider a UPS.
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post #260 of 16892
12/24/08 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

Anyone have this hooked up to an analog TV? I sure hope the pq is better than the DTVPal. Gawd my UPS man is slow!!

I am also quite interested in the analog output of the Pal DVR, specifically through the composite output. In my case it is not for input to an analog TV but rather for input to a DVD recorder. I would like to know how the downscaled analog PQ is and what the output format of a 16:9 broadcast is -- anamorphic frame, 4:3 pan-n-scan or 4:3 letterbox.

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.
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post #261 of 16892
12/25/08 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I am also quite interested in the analog output of the Pal DVR, specifically through the composite output. In my case it is not for input to an analog TV but rather for input to a DVD recorder. I would like to know how the downscaled analog PQ is and what the output format of a 16:9 broadcast is -- anamorphic frame, 4:3 pan-n-scan or 4:3 letterbox.

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.

When I quickly read through the owner's manual, I noticed that there are separate/independent settings for format for HD and SD outputs. Hopefully someone here with real experience can report just how that works.

For download to DVD recorder, I would want the SD output to be anamorphic. For extending to another 4x3 analog TV, I would want SD output to be letterbox or pan and scan. All the while I would want the HD outputs to remain anamorphic.
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post #262 of 16892
12/25/08 at 1:32am
So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can.

Findings so far:
  • The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
  • It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
  • If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.

Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.
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post #263 of 16892
12/25/08 at 3:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can.

Findings so far:
  • The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
  • It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
  • If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.

Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.

That's awesome! I was hoping the drive was easily upgradeable! Do you have any idea whether the unit will use more than 250 GB or not? I guess that's the next question.

Also, any tips on opening the case? Others have reported difficulty doing this...

Thanks again!

Reg
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post #264 of 16892
12/25/08 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid. Not that bad though. However the actual broadcasts themselves are excellent.
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post #265 of 16892
12/25/08 at 5:37am
Some pictures of the unit with the cover off would be great, please.

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post #266 of 16892
12/25/08 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Nagravision (the name on the card) does (according to Google) security stuff for DTV and satellite.

So does that mean the DTVPal DVR is some sat DVR based chasis from which Echostar hasn't bothered to remove the security card or it's for some future feature?

My thought was if it had a slot and Echostar is part of the Tru2way alliance then maybe this was/is intended for some future cable feature. Would such a card be needed/work for VOD (via the Ethernet port)?
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post #267 of 16892
12/25/08 at 6:23am
This should definitely be moved/posted in the main Pal DVR thread - good news indeed.
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post #268 of 16892
12/25/08 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid. Not that bad though. However the actual broadcasts themselves are excellent.

Thanks for the report. I know exactly what you mean by jaggies and text shimmies. I get the same using the composite output on my CM-7000 CECB, the S-video output really cleans it up. Dang I sure wish they had kept the S-video out in the Pal DVR for offloading to DVD
Does anybody know if the grid tells if a program is NEW? I didn't notice any NEW icons on akbungle's screen shots? Both the old analog and new digital TVGOS that I'm familiar with tells if the program is NEW, but the graphics on the Pal doesn't seem to be the full fledged TVGOS. For one it's missing the TV channel logos and doesn't look as polished as regular TVGOS.
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post #269 of 16892
12/25/08 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

So does that mean the DTVPal DVR is some sat DVR based chasis from which Echostar hasn't bothered to remove the security card or it's for some future feature?

My thought was if it had a slot and Echostar is part of the Tru2way alliance then maybe this was/is intended for some future cable feature. Would such a card be needed/work for VOD (via the Ethernet port)?

The card and card slot cannot be used for CableCards or True2Way. It's not a compatible interface. If you want to speculate, the card could be used to support:
  1. a premium, subscription DVR service with greater functionality and more reliable guide information;

  2. subscription or pay video-on-demand and PPV delivered using IP (ethernet connection);

  3. a limited cable channel package delivered using IP (network connection).

I think we are most likely to see #2 in the next year, since the infrastructure is already in place to do that. I suspect any other options we see will depend in part on how successful the DTVPal DVR is as a product.
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post #270 of 16892
12/25/08 at 6:44am
Thread Starter 
Please take and post high-resolution screenshots of the internals.
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