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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 11

post #301 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by autobot View Post

1) On my Sony KDS-60A3000 internal tuner which has a great HD PQ however the DTV PAL tuner live PQ is better than the internal HD tuner fact its MUCH BETTER.

2) Recorded House and the PQ was as good as the Live I could not see a difference.

Also the Dolby Digital output sounds better too.

I also have a KDS-60A3000. This is the definitive description I was looking for. I will order now without reading more.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #302 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbalo View Post

The main processor is on the under side of the board, or possibly under the "can"..

Someone's going to have to be daring enough to do a little further dimantling.

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudke
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post #303 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudke

Thanks! It looks like the ST chip is the processor. Would you mind posting a close-up of the tuner section, please?

TIA!

Reg
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post #304 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudke


Note the "Designed in the UK 2008 (upper middle) and the "Made in China" (just below the can over the CPU)

I don't see a cooling fan - Is there NOT one?
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post #305 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:47pm
Can someone with an open unit please post the part number of the hard disk? I might investigate finding a lower-power 3.5" or even a 2.5" drive to substitute into this DVR. TIA!
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post #306 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Thanks! It looks like the ST chip is the processor. Would you mind posting a close-up of the tuner section, please?

tiny url.com /97vglc
tiny url.com /86xvtm

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavemaster View Post

I don't see a cooling fan - Is there NOT one?

There is one just beside the mainboard. Air was designed to enter from the side of the power supply and exit out through the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Can someone with an open unit please post the part number of the hard disk? I might investigate finding a lower-power 3.5" or even a 2.5" drive to substitute into this DVR. TIA!

It's a 3.5" is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15377033

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.
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post #307 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can.

Findings so far:
  • The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
  • It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
  • If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.

Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.

Are you planning to use the WD 750 Cavier Blue ? - http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=311
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post #308 of 16895
12/25/08 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

Here ya go.
tiny url.com /9abg6c
(minus the spaces)

Updated: this one with the shields removed revealing the tuner and video chips
tiny url.com /7cudke

Thanks. I am surprised, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't use a Broadcom DVR CPU like every other Dish Network satellite DVR. Instead, it is designed around the STMicroelectronics STi7109.
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post #309 of 16895
12/25/08 at 3:08pm
I don't have an Ethernet connection near my Dish DTVPal. Being lazy, and not wanting to crawl under the
house on a cold rainy day, I did the next best thing: I dredged up an ancient 802.11b Linksys WAP11 from
my cobweb covered junkbox of discarded/derelict access points, and configured it for "Point to Multipoint" .
Presto, I now have a wireless Ethernet bridge between the DTVPal and my Internet access point. It's
802.11b sloooow, but it worked perfectly for the firmware update. However, I'm not sure I'd want to try
moving video across the link... ;-)
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post #310 of 16895
12/25/08 at 3:16pm
If anyone else plans to upgrade/remove the hard drive it would be interesting to see if the original drive is mountable and recorded content accessible from a cpu.
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post #311 of 16895
12/25/08 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

tiny url.com /97vglc
tiny url.com /86xvtm

It's a 3.5" is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15377033

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

Thanks!
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post #312 of 16895
12/25/08 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

If the box is still open, could you read the part number off one of the memory chips next to the ST CPU? That would allow us to determine whether the box has 128MB or 256MB memory.

In addition, can you read the numbers off that part to the right (or left, depending on your orientation) of the ST CPU, outside the frame?
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post #313 of 16895
12/25/08 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth B View Post

wildwillie6 - What do you use for an antenna?

There's a diagram of the setup at http://bridgewaterva.com/antenna/ and, of course, a dandy thread on antennas at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623 (try the thread search tool -- great for a long one like that).
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post #314 of 16895
12/25/08 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

If the box is still open, could you read the part number off one of the memory chips next to the ST CPU? That would allow us to determine whether the box has 128MB or 256MB memory.

In addition, can you read the numbers off that part to the right (or left, depending on your orientation) of the ST CPU, outside the frame?

Looking at the fuzzy zoomed image and google guessing, I'd say you get two of these:

http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E0699E50.pdf (D5116AFTA; 512Mb = 64MB each)

and two of these:
http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/d...P(Rev0.03).pdf (hy5du281622ftp-d43; 128Mb = 16MB each)

for a total of (2x64MB) + (2x16MB) = 160MB of RAM in there.

I don't know what the K167... white sticker on the right says. 5's or S's, google isn't helping.
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post #315 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Thanks. I am surprised, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't use a Broadcom DVR CPU like every other Dish Network satellite DVR. Instead, it is designed around the STMicroelectronics STi7109.

Interesting. The documentation you link to is dated December 2006, two years ago. And, it refers to the product as 'low cost'. Well, I supposed as long as it does the job....

I guess this should be no surprise, from Dish Network.
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post #316 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post

Looking at the fuzzy zoomed image and google guessing, I'd say you get two of these:

http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E0699E50.pdf (D5116AFTA; 512Mb = 64MB each)

and two of these:
http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/d...P(Rev0.03).pdf (hy5du281622ftp-d43; 128Mb = 16MB each)

for a total of (2x64MB) + (2x16MB) = 160MB of RAM in there.

I don't know what the K167... white sticker on the right says. 5's or S's, google isn't helping.

You're right about the Hynix and Elpida chips.

Under the K167 sticker is a SPANISON S99-50052 NVRAM. The sticker "K167519. 19D5" probably denotes the software version that came originally.
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post #317 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:16pm
Trying to program a manual timer. It does not conflict with any other timer. I get this screen:

Confirmation [A0X]
The attempted action has failed (29).
OK

Any ideas what this means?
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post #318 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!



FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.
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post #319 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavemaster View Post

This should help bolster visability...and a few additional reviews


Yeah, I thought I should tip them since the DTVPal DVR had been out for days and they hadn't reported on it.
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post #320 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!



FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.

Was the 750GB a 3.5" drive? I'm thinking that the firmware is looking for a specific cylinder/head count.
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post #321 of 16895
12/25/08 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuchana View Post

I got mine today (Fort Collins, CO) and got it hooked up. The first thing that I notice is that it has MUCH better reception than other DTV receivers I have tried. I am getting a reasonable lock on the Denver PBS station that I've never been able to get more than a second or two blip in the past. The Denver NBC station that is currently low power seems to be solid also. We'll see if this holds up, or if the atmosphere is just being extra friendly.

One of the first things I did is install a firmware update via Ethernet connection. I think it came with F201, and it updated to F202. It was an easy process.

If you configure the guide to use small text, you can get about 9 channels on the screen, with about 3 hours of data. Nice! Response is fast.

Right now, some stations, including KCNC-DT Denver (CBS), who is supposed to be the TV Guide source, show "No Information Available". Maybe this will fill in eventually.

I'm using HDMI and an additional optical connection for audio. Everything seems to work OK. I wish someone would broadcast some test patterns/color bars, the default settings look a little washed out vs. my Comcast DVR, but I'm sure I can adjust it properly.

Still learning, but very impressed so far!

Mark

P.S. Mine came with batteries for the remote.

Does anyone know what updating the firmware fixes/enhances?

I am not having any issues but from experience, in some cases, updating firmware may disable certain capabilities such as being able to update the drive, format drive, or removing other capabilities Dish never thought about when producing this unit.

I know there is an update available, but does anyone have a list of what features are modified?
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post #322 of 16895
12/25/08 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!

Awesome job! Thanks for tinkering.
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post #323 of 16895
12/25/08 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!

Double is better than nothing! Good job!
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post #324 of 16895
12/25/08 at 10:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

You're right about the Hynix and Elpida chips.

Under the K167 sticker is a SPANISON S99-50052 NVRAM. The sticker "K167519. 19D5" probably denotes the software version that came originally.

Thanks.

I didn't find that part on the Spansion web site, but a search reveals that it is a 128Mbit (16MB) flash IC. That seems like so little for system software, but the more featured Dish Network ViP722 satellite DVR also uses the same size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!

Excellent!

Before I add this to the first post, can you [re] confirm that all you had to do was remove the old drive and replace the new? The box booted and proceeded to format the new drive, automatically -- is that correct?
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post #325 of 16895
12/25/08 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Before I add this to the first post, can you [re] confirm that all you had to do was remove the old drive and replace the new? The box booted and proceeded to format the new drive, automatically -- is that correct?

Yep, it took the 500G automatically. At least that was the case for me. Blank unpartitioned drive. Plugged it in. It didn't even mention formatting, just the standard "Loading Please Wait" start up screen.

I tried plugging in the dvr drive with a couple recording to my Mac, but it didn't recognize the partition table. I'll have access to a linux box at work and I'll give that a try again.
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post #326 of 16895
12/26/08 at 1:02am
I wonder if someone who has relatively complete TVGOS program guide info would specifically check to see if the program descriptions say whether programs such as prime-time dramas are new or repeats. The TVGOS-based DVRs that I am familiar with use the actual TV Guide style program guide, and these have stylized symbols for new or repeat, but the Pal DVR uses the Dish-style program guide instead, and doesn't appear to use the special symbols of TVGOS. So, if the guide has this info, it would presumably be part of the program descriptions for individual programs, which would probably use something like an R to indicate repeats, or - if its indications are designed in the opposite direction - it would probably have N for new.

Of course, right now there are NO new episodes of prime-time dramas, so if it uses the latter indication (i.e., N), we would not now see anything, so we may have to wait until mid-January to know for sure. (I'm just not so sure whether these indicaions are used for other types of programs, e.g., sports)...

Thanks - Tony
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post #327 of 16895
12/26/08 at 3:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hignfy View Post

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!
...
FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS. While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

Does anyone have one of these lying around that they can test? If not, I'll probably go ahead and pick one up.

Reg
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post #328 of 16895
12/26/08 at 3:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS. While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

I think the Western Digital WD5000AVVS might be a better choice. This is their "GreenPower" line marketed for CE and DVR applications. They claim several features designed specifically to improve reliability in such products. It sells for $60-$65 from the likes of Buy.com.

Coincidentally, this is the 500GB version of the 1TB drive used in the 1TB TivoHD XL.
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post #329 of 16895
12/26/08 at 3:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I think the Western Digital WD5000AVVS might be a better choice. This is their "GreenPower" line marketed for CE and DVR applications. They claim several features designed specifically to improve reliability in such products. It sells for $60-$65 from the likes of Buy.com.

Coincidentally, this is the 500GB version of the 1TB drive used in the 1TB TivoHD XL.

Hmmm. That drive uses MORE power in all operating modes and contains a buffer that is half the size of the GreenPower unit for computer use that I specified. I can get the drive for $64 shipped.

Thoughts?

Reg
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post #330 of 16895
12/26/08 at 4:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Hmmm. That drive uses MORE power in all operating modes and contains a buffer that is half the size of the GreenPower unit for computer use that I specified. I can get the drive for $64 shipped.

Thoughts?

The buffer differences are a non-issue for DVRs.

The only mode that really matters for a DVR is read/write, which is 5.4 vs 6.0 watts. I would not be surprised if these were essentially the same drive with different firmwares. The "Preemptive Wear Leveling" feature on the WD5000AVVS could be responsible for the extra consumption. Or the WD5000AACS numbers could assume some power savings from the extra cache, which would not be realized in a DVR application. These numbers are all estimates based on a particular usage model, which may or may not be the same for both drives.

It if it were me, I would not buy either drive now. I would wait until other members verify that 500GB is the largest supported size. I would hate to order a 500GB drive now and then see a member find a working 1TB drive in a few days. However, if I had to order a drive now, I would still opt for the WD50000AVVS, assuming it could be found for roughly the same price.

Before you buy any drive, and I would take another look at the instructions to make sure it is something that you are comfortable doing. I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.
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