The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 24

It doesn't matter now which way I turn on or off now. (should have mentioned that) The really odd thing was that the DVR would not even turn on.

A couple of things to try. If you have already removed the drive, connect it to a PC and run a diagnostics from WD on it. If it is in fact bad, you may be better off either:

Buying an identical drive and replacing this one

or

Contacting WD with the SN and model and having them ship you a new one.

It sounds like returning this to Dish and getting a new one may take longer than one of the above options.

If you think the entire unit is bad, I would send it back to dish.

FWIW I'm starting to see more and more OTA users that have just had enough of pay TV increasing their rates. Perhaps this will bring some competition to the DTVpal DVR and increase quality/lower price.

wondering would this work with the dtvpal dvr, Linksys WUSB54GC USB 2.0 Wireless Adapter. Would make updating and internet access easy

Well I've got a couple. A Panasonic and a Sony both about 5 yrs old. Analog tuners and not HD by any stretch of the imagination. Both support 480p over component -- remember before upconversion, progressive scan DVD players were all the rage.

I just received my wireless bridge today and had no problems obtaining an IP address with the DTVPal DVR. I have yet to download the firmware though. I think I will wait till I get some clarification as to what the latest version fixes first. Here is a link to the unit I bought for $19.99 if anyone is interested.

bfdtv,

On a firmware update I would think the unit would download the whole update, run a crc check on it to verify it was downloaded properly, instead of doing a update "on-the-fly", wireless network or not.


Q: Has anyone plugged a USB stick into the USB port, and then told the unit to do a firmware update?

I ask because I'm wondering if the unit backs up a copy of the existing firmware- before doing a update.

(Yes I know a usb firmware update download is not available as of 12-30-2008 - and the update the firmware via the USB option may be "greyed-out" unless the unit "sees" a firmware flash file on the USB stick.)


.

I would agree as using wireless to update the firmware is really no different than downloading a firmware via a Dish Network satellite signal. There is always a chance of interruption or signal loss. Being that the software in the DTVPal is the same or similar as what comes with a Dish Network DVR, I would think it functions in a similar manner.

It was done during beta tests (s/w updates using USB)

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

Is it perfect ? - no. But it should serve most people pretty well as a VCR / timeshifting replacement. The tuners are pretty decent. Watching a recording is like watching it live - because this just records the bitstream. It does HDTV, yet you can also work it with your old analog TV and not lose any functionality - I think it works pretty decently as a more capable CECB.

It is well worth my $250 considering I have no cable or satellite and receive only OTA. Other things to keep in mind:

No other DVR on the market except the Philips and Tivo. I like Tivo but the price is not cost effective and the Philips is just junk in my opinion.

No monthly DVR fees with this unit (at least not yet)

"Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that feature.

Also some older DVDRs have component inputs, does anyone know if they would accept 480p for offloading the Pal?"


It looks like the first question has not yet been answered. I assume from reading the manual that if you selected SD, you ONLY have the choice of 480i output, yet since all outputs are active at the same time, it seems reasonable that the 480i output is available from the component output.

Is there anyone out there using component cable input to SD 480i TV that can confirm this? I have ordered two DTVPal DVRs based upon my understanding from the manual, so a confirmation of component 480i output is needed.

Donald1800

Personally, I would have paid more if I'd had to.
I think it's a great machine for the price even if they discontinue the $50 discount.

But it's closer to $275 with tax and shipping

I doubt it would work yet since it still doesn't work with the non-DVR 'pal, but has anyone tried to use this DVR to feed an analog TVGOS device (like an E85)?

This would be "option C" that no one could imagine needing since you have a 'pal DVR. How about if you wanted to record something on your old analog E85 DVR so you could edit it on the hard drive and then burn it to a DVD, neither of which can be done with the 'pal DVR, without having to do a real-time re-recording over composite cables to get it on the E85. Or, maybe you just want the 'pal DVR to give your old analog TVGOS device the time once in a while so it can still be used with a different external tuner to record three things at once (two on the 'pal plus one onto the E85). Or, maybe you like the E85's TVGOS menu system better than the 'pal's, and find it easier to find repeat info, categorized shows, alphabetical listings, etc., using the old TVGOS EPG.

The settings for the component / HDMI outputs are independent of the setting for the composite / RF outputs. You can have the HD settings set to 16:9 TV at 720p or 1080i and at the sametime, the composite will come out as 480i. There is NO setting for 480i for the HD outputs (component and HDMI). You can even set your 480i output to 16:9 as well as 4:3 (haven't looked at this yet - but the option is there).

If the better quality of SVideo is worth it to you - www.svideo.com does have some component to svideo convertors available. YMMV. Haven't tried them myself. I use HDMI to my HDTV and the composite goes to a whole house modulating system (TOSLINK to TV input on A/V receiver). I have used the component outputs, but it's easier to tell the wife to just use HDMI for the HD DVR.

I would say it is a piece of junk if they don't update the constant shut downs/restarts. That being said I do expect they will fix this with an update. I wish they would have used better Beta testers.

Posters interested in the TVGOS function may want to look at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093923

Subject: the M8B by moderator KenH

Those of us with the Sony HDD250/500 feel fairly certain our HD DVR's will continue to function after the DTV changeover date based on Ken's report


BTW The Sony will record an entire episode from the beginning as long as it is in the buffer when the record command is given. Moreover the buffer length is user selectable from 15 min to 2 hours.

If the DTVPal DVR will not do this, it is a fairly serious shortcoming IMHO. While I am interested in this unit, it seems prudent to hold off untill this feature is deemed to be present or added. Obviously with a working Sony there is no urgency in my case.

BTW 2: The TVGOS on the Sony will show a red R in the record icon if the show is set to repeat.

And for those interested in PSIP there is now a WIKI on this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...ation_Protocol

Tried with no success. Sent an email to Ce_customer_support@tvguide.com but don't have an answer yet. Like many have said this probably does not have much utility but it is a challenge. Panasonic is not listed on the TVGuide support site.

I've run tests with a few different hard disks. I have observed operation and measured power consumption and the voltage regulation of the 5V and 12V supplies. Voltages were measured using a Fluke 77 Multimeter at the power supply board connector from the yellow (12V) or red (5V) wire to the adjacent black wire. Power is measured using the Brand Electronics 20-1850 Power Meter. Here are my results:

Included hard disk (250 GB 3.5"):
I did not remove it to check the part number.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 12.45V Power (Off): 21W Power (On): 23W
No problems with operation noted so far.

Western Digital WD10EACS-00ZJB0 (1 TB 3.5"):
This drive was pulled directly from a RAID 1 array and inserted into the DTVPal DVR as is.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 12.35V Power (Off): 19W Power (On): 21W
This drive does NOT work with the DTVPal DVR. Unit reported problems with the hard drive. I attempted to format the drive, but the unit simply shut down and then reported that the drive was not working when it restarted.

Seagate ST9500325AS (500 GB 2.5"):
This drive was pulled from an external USB enclosure. It was formatted NTFS with compression turned on.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 13.95V Power (Off): 17W Power (On): 19W
This drive WORKED in the DTVPal DVR. However, the picture frequently broke up when this drive was being used. I suspect with the 12V output of the power supply unloaded (and hence unregulated) the operating mode of the switching power supply may have changed, leading to much worse EMI. Another possibility is that the 5V supply may not have become unstable (or possibly contained much more ripple) when the 12V supply was unloaded. The bottom line is that the unit became quite unusable even though the drive worked properly. Interestingly, even though information was recorded onto this drive, it was not obvious this was the case when it was later read using a Windows computer. No new data was found and no former data was obviously lost. (I won't trust the data on the disk, however.)

Western Digital WD2500BEVS-60UST0 (250GB 2.5")
This drive was previously the internal drive within a Windows Vista Ultimate tablet computer. It was working fine when removed.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 13.99V Power (Off): 17W Power (On): 19W
This drive does NOT work with the DTVPal DVR. Unit reported problems with the hard drive. I attempted to format the drive, but the unit simply shut down and then reported that the drive was not working when it restarted.

Toshiba MK1246GSX (120GB 2.5")
This drive was previously the internal drive in an Ubuntu laptop. It was formatted with several partitions including file formats such as ext3 and swap.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 14.00V Power (Off): 16W Power (On): 18W
This drive WORKED in the DTVPal DVR. I was in a hurry, so I did not observe whether the same tuner problems I saw with the Seagate drive existed. I suspect they did.

Conclusions:

1) While some 2.5" drives appear to work in the DTVPal DVR, it appears the the power supply does not like having its 12V output unloaded. Somehow this results in frequent breakups in the picture.

2) The 2.5" drives save approximately 4W over the stock drive.

3) The only 3.5" drive I have on hand does not seem to work in this unit.

4) The low-power 1 TB WD drive saved only about 2W of power in the unit, which is less than I had predicted based on specifications. While the added space would have been nice had it worked, the overall power savings is less than 10%.

Thoughts:

5) I'm wondering what factors determine whether a drive can be used or not. Is it the characteristics of the drive or the type of partitioning pre-existing or something else?

6) I'll probably stick with what's in there for now, as I'm new to the DVR world and I don't know if I'll use more than 250 GB or not.

I'll keep the unit open for a couple of days while I'm still on vacation. If anyone would like me to conduct further tests, please let me know.

Thoughts?

Reg

It is a very reasonable price considering what I paid for my single tuner Sony Hi Def HDD DVRS a few years ago. I have a 250 Gig and a 500 Gig which I believe retailed for around $800 though I got it on eBay for around $500.

I have only been using it for 24 hrs but everything seems to be working fine.

The real issue is if you program 2 back to back events, it will set them to use different tuners. So trying to then program an overlapping event gets the error message since neither tuner is free.

I had the issue again today, so I took the chance to play with it a bit. As mentioned, programming the longer event first works. What also works is programming overlapping events first and then the back to back event.

For example, event A is 8:00 to 9:00, B is 8:00 to 8:30 and C is 8:30 to 9:00. You can program in the following orders ABC, ACB, BAC, and CAB. But you can't do the orders BCA or CBA because B and C will be programmed for different tuners thus not allowing A because it conflicts with both B and C.

- - - -

I ran into several other problems with setting events (I suspect there are quite of few bugs in setting events). I have 2 NBC channels, one has TVGOS data, the other doesn't. The one that doesn't has the stronger signal, so I prefer to use that one. When setting an event from the guide, I pick the show from the guide on the weaker NBC, then when the programming screen comes up, I switch it to the stronger NBC and set the event. This generally works.

However, today I was trying to set for the Rose Bowl Parade (1/1 11:00am to 1:00pm), and when I tried to do this trick, it gave me an error something like "the event is already recording", which made no sense.

I then tried to set a manual event for this and from the programming screen, it refused to let me set the date to 1/1 (only allowed the month of 12 and days 30 and 31). It also refused to let me change the "pm" to "am". I would set the time to 11:00 and as soon as I tried to change it to "am" it immediately set it to 1:42 (which was the current time) and did not change to "am". Very irritating and I gave up. It did let me program the event for the weaker NBC with no trouble. I'll have to change in Thursday morning. Possible a bug in crossing the year boundary, which will hopefully go away in 2 days (at least until next year if it doesn't get fixed).

The button has not been disabled, the DTVPal DVR doesn't do anything when it's pushed. When both my DTVPal DVR and Dish 625 DVR were set to remote address 1, hitting this button made the 625 go to the Dish Home application.

I only hit the button to see what it would do, which was nothing on the Pal. When I switched the TV input to the 625, the Dish Home application was running.

I would say they should have used more beta testers, even the best tester can't foresee all the different ways this unit will be used. but if you have a lot of beta testers then you would cover many different user patterns.

Great work.
With all this good testing going on with this box maybe it is time for a separate DTVPal DVR Hacks 'N Mods thread

Perhaps 7200 vs. 5400 RPM matters? The 2.5" laptop drives tested that kind of worked but had picture breakup were both 5400 RPM. The WD "green" disks aren't 7200 RPM most of the time.

This theory will probably be shot down based on other results, and I don't even believe it would matter, but it's something to ponder.

Have people tried a non-green drive that otherwise works, is 7200 RPM, and is larger than 500GB? The 750GB previously tried was later found to be dead.

Works great with my Harmony 1000. I initially had a little trouble with the power on, but lengthened the delay a bit and solved it. You should be good to go.

I guess I'm gonna miss out on the party. I got my DTVPal DVR last week but have decided to try and sell mine on EBay. I was going to also spring for the a Roku box for Netflix streaming, but that additional money puts the DTVPal DVR + Roku close enough for me to justify a Tivo HD + lifetime subscription. You guys are always a wealth of info. It sounds like the DTVPal would have done a fine job for me. Love the apparent easy HD upgrade.

"Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that feature."


Unfortunately your reply added confusion factor instead of clarity, IF I understand you.

I could not locate any reference in the latest user manual that states that the component video output is HD only, and only the ancient composite/RF outputs are SD. Since the component video connection was released prior to HD TV availability and many quality near-HD 480i resolution TVs were released with both component and S-Video inputs, I felt that the DTVPal DVR would fit in with my other component output 480i capable equipment (Sony Blue Ray DVD Player, Xbox, etc.) for my Sony tube TV.

If indeed, the DTVPal DVR only can output HD from the component output (a stupid decision as the component video connection is NOT an HD connection), and my Sony SD TV with component and S-Video inputs can only use 480i - not 480p/720p/1080i video, then this is not compatible. Are you saying that the component output will ONLY output HD outputs? The component to S-Video converter only converts component to S-Video - NOT HD 720p/1080i to 480i, so this is not a solution. A composite/RF connection is out of the question. I will have to cancel my preorders if I can't get component 480i out of the DTVPal DVR component outputs.

Somebody PLEASE clarify this situation.

Donald1800