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The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 325

post #9721 of 16895
6/6/10 at 6:56pm
So here in Connecticut we had an extremely windy day today and the power cut out twice over a span of 15 seconds. After it rebooted i was surprised to find that the hard disk was completely empty. I checked all the other custom settings I placed and they were still intact. Then I checked hard disk diagnostics and found that there were no reported errors and everything was completely fine. My theory to what happened is this. During the reboot cycle after the first power outage there was an interruption from the second power outage and something happened. What exactly happened I have no idea but maybe it was some sort of unexpected glitch or bug. I rechecked the dvr to make sure everything else worked fine and found nothing wrong. By the way I was an early adopter of this dvr and had it since early 2009. There were a couple power failures each summer but never was the dvr affected this way. I don't care that the shows were deleted because all the good ones ended a couple weeks ago anyway and the only stuff I had on it was reality crap. If anyone else experienced this or knows why this happened please post. Thanks.
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post #9722 of 16895
6/6/10 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giblit View Post

If anyone else experienced this or knows why this happened please post. Thanks.

I've had numerous (short term) power outages since I got my DVR in 2008 and have never lost anything off the HDD.
Never lost files off my computer's HDD from power outages either.
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post #9723 of 16895
6/6/10 at 7:25pm
DOn't know why it happened, but this illustrates perfectly why most experianced DVR users have them on a UPS.
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post #9724 of 16895
6/7/10 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes but your said NO info on every channel?

Yes, no TV Guide info on any channel, in Picture 1. I showed day eight so, as not to confuse the PSIP data with TV Guide data.

Mark
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post #9725 of 16895
6/7/10 at 10:56am
Make your Menu changes after the DVR's Initial Installation or after resetting the Factory
Defaults (via - Menu/Setup/System Setups/Factory Defaults).

* Menu/Setup/DVR Default Option; set Start Early and End Late each to '0 Minutes' each.

* Menu/Setup/Updates- set Enable/Disable Timer to 'Disabled'.

* Menu/Preferences/Guide Display- set Direction to 'Ascending' and Type to 'Small Text'.

* Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup- Set to 'Standard'. See Note below (Dolby Digital Setup):
You may prefer keeping the default ('Night') for un-compressed audio.

Note:

Re. The Dolby Digital Setup for 'Standard'/'Night' modes (Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup).

The Help display for this mode says - Select "Night Mode" to have a smaller range between the
loudest audio and the quietest.

Although, due to a F208 system software programming error, this mode selection is reversed.
The 'Night' mode (Factory Default in F208) is actually 'Standard', and vice-versa. Thus
the 'Standard' mode has the lower range in volume with its moderate audio compression.

I prefer F208's 'Standard' mode for its audio compression. It reduces the level of excessively
loud audio, such as in some commercials, etc.
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post #9726 of 16895
6/7/10 at 11:16am
There are 3 types of Resets for the DTVPal DVR

1. Soft Reset (least aggressive Reset):

Hold down the Remote's 'Power ON' button for 10 seconds.

Note:

Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Does NOT erase recording schedules.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.

2. Hard Reset (restart locked DVR):

Unplug the DVR from its AC power outlet,
wait at least 30 seconds, then plug it back in.

Note:

Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Does NOT erase recording schedules.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.

3. Factory Reset (most aggressive Reset):

Restores the 'Factory Defaults'. Select Menu (button), Setup/System Setups/Factory Defaults.

Note:

Erases and re-scans local channels.
Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Erases any previous 'Menu' changes.
Erases recording schedules/timers.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.
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post #9727 of 16895
6/7/10 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanab View Post

I just got my Pal hooked up today. Boy it sure does go off and on alot to update guide. I "know" it is set up for Dolby Digital not the pcm but all I get on my Pioneer 1018 is stereo when I go to auto surround. My old Sony dvr worked for DD and my Sony BR does DD. What is set up wrong? Nothing changed on my receiver..HELP ?

If your unit is constantly rebooting try a battery backup. Variation in the voltage could be causing the rebooting. I have experienced this on several computers. You might not notice the voltage variation but the Pal will.
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post #9728 of 16895
6/7/10 at 12:13pm
Quote:


Re. The Dolby Digital Setup for 'Standard'/'Night' modes (Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup).

The Help display for this mode says - Select "Night Mode" to have a smaller range between the
loudest audio and the quietest.

Although, due to a F208 system software programming error, this mode selection is reversed.
The 'Night' mode (Factory Default in F208) is actually 'Standard', and vice-versa. Thus
the 'Standard' mode has the lower range in volume with its moderate audio compression.

I prefer F208's 'Standard' mode for its audio compression. It reduces the level of excessively
loud audio, such as in some commercials, etc.

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?
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post #9729 of 16895
6/7/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

My ears are the only confirmation I need!
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post #9730 of 16895
6/7/10 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

+1 Hearing is believing and I did read it way back in this forum, but can't remember if it was on page 1 or not.
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post #9731 of 16895
6/7/10 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post

My ears are the only confirmation I need!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Night mode = narrower dynamic range which should equal "louder volume"

This is my experience, especially when using RF through TV speakers. I run it with Night Mode on so that if the DTVPal turns off before my TV I don't get a blast of static (I.e. volume levels of TV tuner and PAL are closer)
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post #9732 of 16895
6/7/10 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

I've had mine since Dec 2008, and it has never taken more than 7 or 8 minutes to acquire and fill in a full 7 plus days of TVGOS info after a restart.
And yes, I do know the difference between PSIP and TVGOS.

I verified what you have said here. Doing the 10 second power switch reset, does get the guide data back in 7 or 8 minutes, also pulling the power cord and plugging it back in gets the data back that fast also. However, that is because the TVGOS data is not actually deleted from the DTVPal, rather the reset causes the "link" between the data and the grid to be lost, and it has to re-establish that link to copy the data back to the grid. That only takes about 7 or 8 minutes like you said.

If you do the Factory Defaults, it will take from 30 minutes up to 8 hours (if reset in the evening) to get the TV Guide data back. This is because unlike the other two resets, the Factory Defaults wipes the TV Guide data from the DVR, and it has to re-download the data. It is easy to prove, (or dis-prove) what I am talking about. If you do the Factory Defaults after 5:40pm, you will not have TV Guide data when you go to bed that night. You won't get any guide data until after 2:00am the next morning. This is because there is no listing data sent out between 5:41pm in the evening, and 2:01am the next morning.

Mark
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post #9733 of 16895
6/7/10 at 7:02pm
Ok
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post #9734 of 16895
6/7/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I verified what you have said here. Doing the 10 second power switch reset, does get the guide data back in 7 or 8 minutes, also pulling the power cord and plugging it back in gets the data back that fast also. However, that is because the TVGOS data is not actually deleted from the DTVPal, rather the reset causes the "link" between the data and the grid to be lost, and it has to re-establish that link to copy the data back to the grid. That only takes about 7 or 8 minutes like you said.

If you do the Factory Defaults, it will take from 30 minutes up to 8 hours (if reset in the evening) to get the TV Guide data back. This is because unlike the other two resets, the Factory Defaults wipes the TV Guide data from the DVR, and it has to re-download the data. It is easy to prove, (or dis-prove) what I am talking about. If you do the Factory Defaults after 5:40pm, you will not have TV Guide data when you go to bed that night. You won't get any guide data until after 2:00am the next morning. This is because there is no listing data sent out between 5:41pm in the evening, and 2:01am the next morning.

Mark

It would be true if you'll use a word "flash memory"; nothing on HDD is resemble PSIP or TVGOS data.
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post #9735 of 16895
6/8/10 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

It would be true if you'll use a word "flash memory"; nothing on HDD is resemble PSIP or TVGOS data.

I don't know where the data is stored, but it is stored somewhere, and must be "linked" to the grid from there. That "link" is apparently lost after a "power button" reset. It then has to re-establish that link to fill the grid back in. The total loss of TVGOS data is easy to demonstrate by doing a Factory Defaults, and seeing that it takes much longer to get the TVGOS data back. However, I also know that most people have their DVRs recording shows on a regular basis, and don't want to lose all their timers, just to play with this.

Mark
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post #9736 of 16895
6/8/10 at 7:30am
It use two kind of memory for the purpose: volatile - RAM and non-volatile - flash [NOR flash]; recordings/catalog it keep on a drive.
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post #9737 of 16895
6/8/10 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Thanks, see my post just above.

To be more specific I am trying to locate someone with a fixed 1080p panel (plasma or LCD), that has selectable pixel mapping (Like the Panasonic HD Size 2), and has confirmed the DTVPal will not overscan on a 1080i source to that pixel mapping 1080p panel.

The DVR always outputs what you select for the available options. 1080P is not an option. If your display can't handle 1080i this DVR will not work for you. If you set the DVR for 1080i that is what you get even if the broadcast is 480i or 720P. I have no complaint with the picture quality/conversion no matter what the input except when a station takes a 16:9 format program, letterboxes it to 4:3 you end up with a lot of black border unless you zoom and it never fits exactly right.
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post #9738 of 16895
6/8/10 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I never owned one but from what I have read they were very well-made/high-quality units. One thing that I believe lead to their demise was the MSRP which ranged from $800 for the 250GB unit to $1,000 for the 500GB unit. I don't believe the majority of OTA viewers who wanted to record HD were willing to spend that amount of money. A lot of people buying electronics look for the cheapest price and unfortunately don't give much thought to the quality of the build or components inside. IMHO the Sony units had a limited market based on their MSRPs at the time.

It was expensive but it was also a product before its time. When I was looking at it there were no digital stations in my area.
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post #9739 of 16895
6/8/10 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

First off ty for all the pictures. We all know it takes work.

I was suprised to see the echostar lable on the bottom of the CM box. Means to me that Dish is making this for Chanelmaster.

In my business world. We call this Private Label.

The relationship between Dish and Echostar is complex but they are not the same. There was a split and Dish distributes media, EchoStar builds hardware.
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post #9740 of 16895
6/8/10 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanab View Post

I see both red and green. Then sometimes just the green. I can't find anywhere what the red or green lights are for. Maybe it's just rebooting on/off about every few {5}min.

Sounds like you may have a bad unit. The DVR does not reboot to load guide data. It may attempt to do a firmware update once a day around 1:00 AM.
When you disable updates it does not do that. There have not been any updates for a long time so you don't lose anything by doing this. It will be posted here if there is an update available so you can manually request a firmware update.

Try doing a reset to factory defaults. That may help but reboots every 5 minutes with F208 or F400 in your case should not happen.

RED light -- recording
GREEN light -- unit is ON or active
NO lights -- unit is in standby and not recording.

When unit is rebooting both lights will be on briefly. They will both be on if you are watching and recording at the same time.
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post #9741 of 16895
6/8/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

The relationship between Dish and Echostar is complex but they are not the same. There was a split and Dish distributes media, Echostart builds hardware.

So since the Dish DVR and Channel Master uses hardware and software. I assume that Dish is still involved. In some way
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post #9742 of 16895
6/8/10 at 11:31am
As I understand it, the split, and subsequent partnership of now two separate companies, was quite clear - Dish is the media content (service) provider (but includes hardware from source to space) and Echostar is the earthbound (media transmission receivers) customer equipment provider. Dish would just need to supply specifications to Echostar who would handle all hardware and software required to meet those specs.
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post #9743 of 16895
6/8/10 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget_HT View Post

FWIW, I just found and purchased two units at a local Sears store for $149.99 each. They have one more. The marked price was $199.99 and I asked the clerk to check for the current price. The store is in Lacey, WA.

Hi, thanks for the tip. I live in the Tacoma, WA area and could not find any at the local Sears stores so I drove down to Lacey and they had 3 on the shelf at $149.99, so I just bought one.
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post #9744 of 16895
6/8/10 at 5:54pm
From the known issues list:
Quote:


Light sensor on some TVs may cause poor / intermittent remote response

A number of newer LCD and plasma TVs feature "light sensor" or "day-night sensor" to adjust the TV's picture depending on ambient light conditions. When enabled, this "light sensor" or "day-night sensor" causes havoc with many STBs and DVRs using IR remotes. Disable this option in your TV settings and remote response should return to normal.

I'm not sure how a light sensor could affect IR remotes. However, my Samsung TV (LN46B640) does indeed wreak havoc on the CM7000PAL remote - you have to hold it about 6 inches from the DVR in order for it to register. I tried turning off the TV and the remote works normally from 6 feet away, whether pointed at the DVR, the ceiling, or the walls. (With the TV off, you can't see what's happening, but the green light on the DVR does flicker when pressing a button.)

Curious about what was happening, I got out an IR camera to search for the source of interference. Surprisingly it is the TV screen itself, not an IR LED somewhere around the frame as I was expecting -- the whole LCD panel is a huge IR-flooding billboard even when the screen is dark. If anyone has found an LCD TV for which turning off a room light sensor causes the DVR remote to start working normally, I'd be shocked.

I put a Channel Master D2A (an FCC coupon converter box) on top of the DVR to see if its remote was affected. With the TV off it picks up wall reflections. With the TV on the remote has to be pointed directly at the box, but it does work reliably at 6 feet. So the D2A is much less susceptible to interference than the DVR - I conclude that the CM7000PAL remote sensor is a poor design.
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post #9745 of 16895
6/8/10 at 6:09pm
It's Echostar design, not CM.
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post #9746 of 16895
6/8/10 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasieb View Post

Hi, thanks for the tip. I live in the Tacoma, WA area and could not find any at the local Sears stores so I drove down to Lacey and they had 3 on the shelf at $149.99, so I just bought one.

Glad to help.

Since antenna reception is very iffy in the Olympia area, I think there was little opportunty for the locals to make use of the OTA-only DVR. I happened on them when I was visiting in Tumwater and went to the Lacey store on a hunch.
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post #9747 of 16895
6/9/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvdave View Post

From the known issues list:


I'm not sure how a light sensor could affect IR remotes. However, my Samsung TV (LN46B640) does indeed wreak havoc on the CM7000PAL remote - you have to hold it about 6 inches from the DVR in order for it to register. I tried turning off the TV and the remote works normally from 6 feet away, whether pointed at the DVR, the ceiling, or the walls. (With the TV off, you can't see what's happening, but the green light on the DVR does flicker when pressing a button.)

Curious about what was happening, I got out an IR camera to search for the source of interference. Surprisingly it is the TV screen itself, not an IR LED somewhere around the frame as I was expecting -- the whole LCD panel is a huge IR-flooding billboard even when the screen is dark. If anyone has found an LCD TV for which turning off a room light sensor causes the DVR remote to start working normally, I'd be shocked.

I put a Channel Master D2A (an FCC coupon converter box) on top of the DVR to see if its remote was affected. With the TV off it picks up wall reflections. With the TV on the remote has to be pointed directly at the box, but it does work reliably at 6 feet. So the D2A is much less susceptible to interference than the DVR - I conclude that the CM7000PAL remote sensor is a poor design.

AT&T U-verse boxes are plagued with this same issues with some TV's, so it is not an uncommon issue. I blame it on the TV
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post #9748 of 16895
6/9/10 at 7:07am
Quick vote:
I have had *NO* real issues with my DVR...it's only been 3 months. Who else hasn't had actual reliability issues?
(not guide related----that doesn't count)
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post #9749 of 16895
6/9/10 at 7:10am
I'm surprised that the CM box was released now. It's kinda a silly time since everything is in reruns.
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post #9750 of 16895
6/9/10 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrafetish2000 View Post

Quick vote:
I have had *NO* real issues with my DVR...it's only been 3 months. Who else hasn't had actual reliability issues?
(not guide related----that doesn't count)

I've not had any, since Dec 2008.
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