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CMS for VP50 Pro coming?

post #1 of 216
12/22/08 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
I heard a serious rumor that CMS will be available for the VP50 Pro as a firmware upgrade in the not too distant future. Does anyone have the inside scoop?

I did a forum search, but did not see anything.

I was thingking of selling my VP50 Pro, but I heard this today and it gave me pause. Maybe I'll call DVDO after the holidays unless someone knows.

Thanks to forum members for anything you can provide.
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post #2 of 216
12/22/08 at 2:06pm
where did you hear it from?

-Gary
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post #3 of 216
12/22/08 at 2:12pm
I would say it's nothing more than wishful thinking for now.

On the other hand, I guess ABT has to announce *something* for the CES in early january. I guess ABT had(has) a solid user & customer base for their higher end processors and after focusing on the Edge this year they have bring in something cool for loyal customers if they don't want to loose the complete higher-end buyer group to companies like Lumagen.
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post #4 of 216
12/22/08 at 2:44pm
Could someone define what exactly a CMS system must entail? It seems sorta generic to me. I have a VP50 and I thought it already had these adjustments. I think my Edge does too.

Could someone enlighten me, please?

Thanks.
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post #5 of 216
12/22/08 at 3:13pm
A full 3-D CMS (Color Management System) will allow you to correct at least your primaries (Red, Green, Blue) and possibly your secondaries (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow) of your projection/direct view display. In order for it to be useful there are 3 components of each color that must be adjustable without adverse interaction with the other colors. These components are Hue, Saturation, and Luminance and are represented as coordinates (xyY) on CIE Chromacity diagram. Adjusting each color with these components will allow you to correct your output to a specific color space such as SMPTE-C, Rec 709, etc...

For projectors like the JVC RS-1 is can make a huge difference in taming oversaturated colors and accurately rendering content.

This is a pretty quick synopsis but I hope it helps.

CIE xy Chromacity Diagram (the "Y" coordinate would be the "lightness" or "luma" of each color and is the "Z" axis not visible on this diagram)
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post #6 of 216
12/22/08 at 3:29pm
CMS stands for Color Management System. This can be used to move the position of the primary and sometimes the secondary color points.

Many recent projectors and displays have a green color point that is well outside the Bt.709 color triangle. This can result in an image with fluorescent green grass. The display companies do this to make their display stand out when compared at the video store to competing products.

Lumagen added a CMS feature to all their current products. They posted the software as a "free" upgrade for their customers.

Randy
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post #7 of 216
12/22/08 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVFORME View Post

I heard a serious rumor that CMS will be available for the VP50 Pro as a firmware upgrade in the not too distant future. Does anyone have the inside scoop?

I did a forum search, but did not see anything.

I was thingking of selling my VP50 Pro, but I heard this today and it gave me pause. Maybe I'll call DVDO after the holidays unless someone knows.

Thanks to forum members for anything you can provide.

If you could cite a credible source that would be helpful. I've been seriously debating ditching a VP50 Pro that I have. Currently I have a Crystalio2, but its CMS is somewhat crippled.
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post #8 of 216
12/22/08 at 7:30pm
the reason I asked is because the vp50pro lacks even rudimentary hue/sat controls for all three colors to get a perfect color decoding for each source

why add CMS when you can't even get this added?

its a shame because the pro could quite easily be the best VP on the market bar none but it lacks the calibration features of a Lumagen and needs a updated scaling algorithm which could all easily be done

-Gary
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post #9 of 216
12/22/08 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVFORME View Post

I heard a serious rumor that CMS will be available for the VP50 Pro as a firmware upgrade in the not too distant future. Does anyone have the inside scoop?

I did a forum search, but did not see anything.

I was thingking of selling my VP50 Pro, but I heard this today and it gave me pause. Maybe I'll call DVDO after the holidays unless someone knows.

Thanks to forum members for anything you can provide.

Define "serious rumor" as that sounds like an oxymoron. Many VP50Pro owners have been feeling like morons for their purchasing the unit, so maybe there's something to it.
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post #10 of 216
12/22/08 at 10:14pm
I'm sure we will soon be seeing a new Josh thread entitled "New DVDO VP60" soon...
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post #11 of 216
12/22/08 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

I'm sure we will soon be seeing a new Josh thread entitled "New DVDO VP60" soon...

nope

-Gary
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post #12 of 216
12/23/08 at 2:02am
I'd settle on a Dale Adams thread giving us the inside scoop on what he's currently doing with the 50Pro firmware. At least if I knew definitively that he was working on it would give me sufficient hope to hang in there (let me just say again the current 50Pro production firmware is almost a year since release now).
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post #13 of 216
12/23/08 at 10:18am
Thread Starter 
I not sure if it is entirely useful to say where I heard it from, let's just say that he is a respected contibutor and peddler of the components that comprise this addictive and expensive vice..er hobby.

I have to say rumor since it has not been confirmed. Serious because of the source.

I too have noticed that there has not been a firmware upgrade for the 50 Pro for some time. I am suspicious, has Anchor Bay abandoned the 50, or are they atually working on an upgrade? From a marketing perspective, it would be in their interest to have a box with CMS, especially to differentiate it from the Edge and other models. In my opinion their line up is too compressed from a feature standpoint and certainly when you throw in an inexpensive box like the Edge.

Now that projectors with integrated CMS are beginning to appear, Anchor Bay needs to do something to sell boxes.

Maybe a CMS firmware upgrade for the 50 Pro, and a new model (VP60?) with more features (CMS and integrated calibration tools/hardware) at a higher price? Or maybe bva new model just above the Edge (Edge +) with some kind of CMS like features at a market busting price.

After all, anyone who follows this stuff knows that the trend is more capability at a lower price. I remember when Faroudja was selling scalers for $15,000.

Anyway, I'm just postulating about additional models, but the rumor is serious. If CMS doesn't come soon I'm ditching Anchor Bay DVDO products permanently, I'll just buy an RS20 instead of an RS10.

I tried calling Anchor Bay, but they are off drinking egg nogg I think. That's OK they derserve to enjoy the Holidays.

So thanks, and Happy Holidays to all you similarly HT addicted forum fanatics.
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post #14 of 216
12/23/08 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVFORME View Post

I too have noticed that there has not been a firmware upgrade for the 50 Pro for some time. I am suspicious, has Anchor Bay abandoned the 50, or are they atually working on an upgrade? From a marketing perspective, it would be in their interest to have a box with CMS, especially to differentiate it from the Edge and other models. In my opinion their line up is too compressed from a feature standpoint and certainly when you throw in an inexpensive box like the Edge.

On the one hand, Anchor Bay has traditionally shown a lack of interest in providing calibration controls on their VPs. On he other hand, their high end offering, as you point out, has not been upgraded in a while, so this would be a logical way to go.

I'll believe it when I see. it.
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post #15 of 216
12/23/08 at 12:31pm
I vacillate between ridiculing ABT and cutting them a break for bringing a more affordable product to market to maintain their viability. They've done the latter and I wish them success, but now it's time to show their existing high-end customers that they appreciate them.
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post #16 of 216
12/23/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

nope

-Gary

Hope you are beta testing something new for the VP50Pro vs. knowing that the new name will actually be the VP100Pro+
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post #17 of 216
12/23/08 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

nope

-Gary

Or, of course Gary could be referencing the fact that Josh has left ABT (according to other posts anyway, and his lack of any posting anywhere on this forum since October backs it up) and so it wouldn't be from Josh....
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post #18 of 216
12/23/08 at 1:55pm
You are probably right! Ha.
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post #19 of 216
12/23/08 at 2:03pm
Gary winks more than anyone I know. Don't know if he knows somethin' or is flirting.
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post #20 of 216
12/23/08 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

Hope you are beta testing something new for the VP50Pro vs. knowing that the new name will actually be the VP100Pro+

if I was and could say anything (not that I am) I would tell you guys

-Gary
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post #21 of 216
12/23/08 at 6:38pm
I called ABT about 3 months ago inquiring as to if they'd have a CMS solution in an upcoming or existing product any time soon. The person with whom I spoke told me that they were working on a CMS for the VP50Pro that would be available via a firmware upgrade. When I asked whether they were doing the same for the VP50, he said no because it didn't have enough FPGAs available to implement a CMS. The timeline that he gave me was "a couple months" but that time has come and passed, so who knows when we'll be seeing it.

Although I didn't ask if this was information that I could share, he answered my question frankly and without any prodding or caveats, so I'm assuming that it's ok to repeat it here.
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post #22 of 216
12/23/08 at 9:54pm
That would be great news. One of the reasons I upgraded to the VP50Pro was that it was suppose to have larger FPGAs to allow more improvements for firmware upgrades. SJ
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post #23 of 216
12/24/08 at 1:12am
I wouldn't hold my breath over any time frame assurances from ABT. They asked me if I would be interested in beta testing the successor to 50Pro v1.04b about 6 months ago and it never eventuated.

Edit: I just crossed over to the Lumagen web site for the first time and found to my surprise the frequency of firmware updates for the Radiance XD are staggering in comparison to the DVDO VP-line.
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post #24 of 216
12/24/08 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post

I wouldn't hold my breath over any time frame assurances from ABT. They asked me if I would be interested in beta testing the successor to 50Pro v1.04b about 6 months ago and it never eventuated.

It was "edged" out as a priority.
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post #25 of 216
12/24/08 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

It was "edged" out as a priority.

That's one of the reasons I decided to switch to Lumagen with a Radiance, although I did toy around with the idea of upgrading my VP50 to a Pro so I could have the upcoming CMS for less than the price of a Radiance. However, it seems that the VP50Pro is having teething problems with its current advertised feature set (just like the VP50 did) and that again DVDO has put fixing those problems on the back burner in order to introduce another product. It's a disappointing pattern of behavior and I'd prefer not to get sucked into that cycle again, and I certainly wouldn't expect to see a CMS in the Pro any time soon.

I'm now happily part of the Lumagen family - they make first class products, deliver on promises, and know how to treat their customers.
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post #26 of 216
12/24/08 at 7:56am
edited: i removed my post. crapping on them in one thread is enough . . .
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post #27 of 216
12/24/08 at 4:10pm
We will see. I'm hoping they offer a CMS without having to purchase ANOTHER upgrade. I've upgraded with DVDO so many times, I've lost track... If Lumagen offered a competitive upgrade (like DVDO does), I might abandon ship on DVDO. Keep my fingers crossed for an upgrade to the firmware... SJ
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post #28 of 216
12/25/08 at 3:13am
If you own the VP50Pro, the CMS will be available via firmware, unless they change their plans and decide to only offer the CMS in some newer product, which I highly doubt.
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post #29 of 216
12/25/08 at 10:27am
forget CMS, we need the point greyscale/gamma control first

and color decoder control

-Gary
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post #30 of 216
12/26/08 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Define "serious rumor" as that sounds like an oxymoron. Many VP50Pro owners have been feeling like morons for their purchasing the unit, so maybe there's something to it.

I did an extensive shoot out between the VP50pro and the Lumagen. The VP50pro was clearly superior in many areas. And I did this at wotk where we have Teranex and Panasonic UFC's as a bench mark plus the broadcast grade test equipment.

There's another way to look at constant firmware upgrades. Some manufactures get it right before it's shipped. Others ship a half assed implementation then fix the bugs with monthly firmware updates.
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